Higher Wattage PSU v. Higher Quality.

[mti027]

The TDP for my system is around 400W. I'm looking to get a fully modular PSU. My main factor in choosing a PSU is the sound--I want it to be as quiet as possible. Currently, I'm looking at a 650W SeasonicPrime: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/nn648d/seasonic-prime-650w-80-titanium-certified-fully-modular-atx-power-supply-ssr-650td

 

I've heard great things about these power supplies. It is kind of expensive though. 

 

Would I be better off going with a higher Watt PSU, that is around the same price. With a higher wattage, there would be less chance of the fans needing to spin up--a 1000W PSU wouldn't even go above 50% usage, so presumably the fans wouldn't need to do much. 

[TurtleTrain]

Hey,

One company that is  very good is Corsair, their power supplies do not use the fan unless the draw is above a certain percentage, I would not recommend getting one that is a massive amount over the wattage that you need as it will cost you quite a lot, also, the reason for it being very expensive is because it is Titanium efficiency, it may be worth getting something like gold however I wouldn't thing Titanium is necessary.

 

Hope this helps

[mariushm]

You don't need a Titanium rated power supply.  A gold efficiency power supply from a brand name would be enough.

 

The older Seasonic X-650 can push the whole 650 watts on the 12v if needed, and it's only about 100$ (about 50$ cheaper) : https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151088&ignorebbr=1

 

The Corsair RMx series power supplies - while made by CWT - would still provide 750w or 850w at 110$, respectively 120$ : 750w 850w

 

There's also EVGA SuperNOVA G2 750w  at 100$ , made by Superflower , based on high end, quality Leadex Gold platform  : https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817438017&ignorebbr=1

 

 

All these should be just fine for your needs.

 

edit : added link to evga psu

 

And I can also add the recent Bitfenix BWG650  at 90$ and higher power models - good CWT design with good capacitors and everything looking good to me : https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817376006&ignorebbr=1 or  https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817376005&ignorebbr=1

 

 

[limegorilla]

3 minutes ago, mariushm said:

You don't need a Titanium rated power supply.  A gold efficiency power supply from a brand name would be enough.

 

The older Seasonic X-650 can push the whole 650 watts on the 12v if needed, and it's only about 100$ (about 50$ cheaper) : https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151088&ignorebbr=1

 

The Corsair RMx series power supplies - while made by CWT - would still provide 750w or 850w at 110$, respectively 120$ : 750w 850w

 

There's also EVGA Suprnova G2 750w  at 100$ , made by Superflower , based on high end, quality Leadex Gold platform.

 

All these should be just fine for your needs.

 

sounds about right

[quan289]

A higher wattage PSU doesn't necessarily equate to a quieter solution, as you need to consider that operation at 100% load on the higher wattage unit will produce more heat and may need a noisier, higher RPM fan a lower wattage one - which in turn have a higher start-up voltage. Of course, other factors such as the fan profile and how the manufacturer decides to program it can greatly affect this.

 

Anyways, due to it's high efficiency and quiet FDB fan, the Seasonic Prime 650w is a very quiet PSU even when operating at full load. Aris of Tomshardware had shown that the fan only spins up to 700RPM with a 30dBA when ambient temperature is nearly 47C @ 115VAC. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/seasonic-prime-titanium-650w-psu,4690-4.html

 

You can also get other quieter solution for cheaper as well. The aforementioned Corsair RMx / RMi, EVGA Supernova G2/P2, Bitfenix Whisper M, etc. may be a few viable option

[Droidbot]

SS Prime is an amazing PSU. What configuration are you currently running?

I'd say EVGA Titanium 750W 

[mariushm]

Guys, the platinum certification basically just guarantees slightly higher efficiency at various levels (20%, 50% and 100%). 

 

For example, the 150$ prime will peak at around 95.8% efficiency at 400w load, when powered from 230v AC... the Gold efficiency X-650 will be at around 93% ...

 

The difference is very small and for the end user, the benefits are just lower fan speeds, because less air needs to be pushed through the power supply heatsinks to keep the components cool.

Consider they make 80% bronze power supplies which are only about 82-85% efficient, those basically produce twice the amount of heat due to waste and they still work fine for years.

 

[Zusafek]

I'm not exactly sure what the general consensus is on Thermaltake psu's are but I have had mine for about a month now with no issues. 

 

Picked up the Thermaltake Toughpower 650 rgb 80+ gold fully modular for 89 usd on Amazon. Has eco mode which keeps the fan off until it starts to hear up and even then it's very quiet. 

[quan289]

1 hour ago, mariushm said:

Guys, the platinum certification basically just guarantees slightly higher efficiency at various levels (20%, 50% and 100%).

I'm aware.

[mti027]

1 hour ago, Droidbot said:

SS Prime is an amazing PSU. What configuration are you currently running?

I'd say EVGA Titanium 750W 

This is my current build, though I no longer have the R9 390X. I am purchasing an RX 480 tomorrow.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/hRK6m8

[Droidbot]

2 minutes ago, mti027 said:

This is my current build, though I no longer have the R9 390X. I am purchasing an RX 480 tomorrow.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/hRK6m8

Why? 480 is a side-grade. 

If you want more performance go for 1070. 

 

Again, EVGA Titanium would be good but very much depends on location since their support sucks outside of USA

[mti027]

1 minute ago, Droidbot said:

Why? 480 is a side-grade. 

If you want more performance go for 1070. 

 

Again, EVGA Titanium would be good but very much depends on location since their support sucks outside of USA

The 390X was loud AF. Fans always on, and when under load were never under 60%. I sold it, and can get the 480 for much cheaper. I'm looking to spend under $300 on a GPU, so the 480 is my best bet. I realize it's not going to lead to any massive improvement in terms of FPS from what I was used to. 

I am in the U.S. EVGA was what I was looking at before I came across the Seasonic. 

[Droidbot]

1 minute ago, mti027 said:

The 390X was loud AF. Fans always on, and when under load were never under 60%. I sold it, and can get the 480 for much cheaper. I'm looking to spend under $300 on a GPU, so the 480 is my best bet. I realize it's not going to lead to any massive improvement in terms of FPS from what I was used to. 

I am in the U.S. EVGA was what I was looking at before I came across the Seasonic. 

Yeah, I agree there. EVGA T2 750 is similarly priced, and has really good US support as well as a 24/7 tech support line.

[mti027]

1 minute ago, Droidbot said:

Yeah, I agree there. EVGA T2 750 is similarly priced, and has really good US support as well as a 24/7 tech support line.

The EVGA P2 750 is $120 on amazon... might go for that...

[Stefan Payne]

6 hours ago, mti027 said:

Would I be better off going with a higher Watt PSU, that is around the same price. With a higher wattage, there would be less chance of the fans needing to spin up--a 1000W PSU wouldn't even go above 50% usage, so presumably the fans wouldn't need to do much. 

No, higher quality is ALWAYS better than more watt.

 

More Watts give you absolutely no benefits compared to the lower wattage PSUs. Higher Quality on the other hand always give you many advantages!
There are:
Less noise

Higher possible usage time

higher efficiency

better voltage regulation and quality -> enhances lifetime of components.

 

ANd so much more...

I don't know where the fairy tale that more watts are better comes from. It's just not the case...

Higher Quality on the other hand beats everything.

[JoostinOnline]

1 hour ago, Stefan Payne said:

No, higher quality is ALWAYS better than more watt.

 

More Watts give you absolutely no benefits compared to the lower wattage PSUs. Higher Quality on the other hand always give you many advantages!
There are:
Less noise

Higher possible usage time

higher efficiency

better voltage regulation and quality -> enhances lifetime of components.

 

ANd so much more...

I don't know where the fairy tale that more watts are better comes from. It's just not the case...

Higher Quality on the other hand beats everything.

Well it does need to be more than your peak load.  Because efficiency really drops after about 80%, I suggest people divide the peak load by 0.8 to get what size PSU they need.  A Gold PSU is not going to perform as well at 95% usage as a Bronze one will at 50% usage.  On top of that, just because a PSU is efficient, that doesn't mean it's good quality.  There are plenty of sh*tty Gold rated PSU's out there.

 

So your statement isn't necessarily true.

[Gonio]

The 80 plus rating says nothing about quality btw, only possible efficiency. As others said always go for quality over higher wattage.

In the PSU tier list they have made a ranking of tiers that gives you a good idea of how good the quality is. All from tier 3 and above is good to excellent. He also has some links in his sig to read more on how and why with PSU and you can also find some more info in the PC parts guide in my sig.

 

[quan289]

1 hour ago, JoostinOnline said:

Well it does need to be more than your peak load.  Because efficiency really drops after about 80%, I suggest people divide the peak load by 0.8 to get what size PSU they need.  A Gold PSU is not going to perform as well at 95% usage as a Bronze one will at 50% usage.  On top of that, just because a PSU is efficient, that doesn't mean it's good quality.  There are plenty of sh*tty Gold rated PSU's out there.

 

So your statement isn't necessarily true.

Yes, you do, indeed, need a power supply that has the necessary rating and connectors to accommodate the system. Once you do that, going for a higher quality unit would be a better option

 

Efficiency does typically start to drops after the ~50% load; however, it doesn't "really drops" after that. At 115V, a gold efficiency unit must be at least 87/90/87% efficient at 20/50/100% respectively which the lowest value require is better than a Bronze unit at its best (85%). As for Gold unit performing better or worse, that really depends on the overall design which will determine the overall quality of the power supply.

[JoostinOnline]

36 minutes ago, quan289 said:

Once you do that, going for a higher quality unit would be a better option

Quality and efficiency aren't at all the same thing.  That's like saying a car's quality and mileage are the same.

[quan289]

14 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

Quality and efficiency aren't at all the same thing.  That's like saying a car's quality and mileage are the same.

When did I say efficiency is the same thing as quality? I mean I specifically said "As for Gold unit performing better or worse, that really depends on the overall design which will determine the overall quality of the power supply." which implies that there are more to it to determine the PSU's overall quality than just efficiency and wattage rating.

[JoostinOnline]

2 minutes ago, quan289 said:

When did I say efficiency is the same thing as quality?

My mistake, I apologize.  I think I might be mixing up a couple of topics.

[Stefan Payne]

8 hours ago, JoostinOnline said:

Quality and efficiency aren't at all the same thing.  That's like saying a car's quality and mileage are the same.

There are some correlations between efficiency and quality!

Because a higher efficiency grade is more expansive anyway, manufacturers tends to choose better compoinents (well d'oh, they need them for the higher efficiency anyway)...

 

And there are NO high quality bronze units on the market right now anymore. The good stuff is at least gold right now....

 

 

11 hours ago, JoostinOnline said:

Well it does need to be more than your peak load.  Because efficiency really drops after about 80%, I suggest people divide the peak load by 0.8 to get what size PSU they need. 

What are you talking about?!
Look at the box!!

This manufacturer says that his unit is able to deliver the mentioned wattage 24/7!

So if you need 450W, you best go for a 450W PSU.

 

As for 80plus Gold units:
Last time I looked, those units just dropped about 1%point from 80% to 100%. But that also isn't always the case and depends on the unit/design!

You just can not say that's always the case because it's not!

 

And it's also not true that the best efficiency of PSUs is at 50% load! You have to look that up as well for every PSU.

2 Examples:

http://www.tweakpc.de/hardware/tests/netzteile/superflower_leadex_ii/s03.php

Leadex 2, best efficiency between 30 and 50%, 850W. WIth 1000W Load it's around 30%, also 30% on 230VAC/1000W

And on 230VAC the efficiency "curve" is rather flat. 

 

 

Pure Power 10, 500CM:

http://www.tweakpc.de/hardware/tests/netzteile/be_quiet_pure_power_10/s03.php
Best efficiency also around 30%with and reaching about 90% on 115VAC...

On 230VAC the efficiency curve is also rather flat. Between 20% and 80% we are talking aboput 2,2%points difference, another one percentpoint drop from 80-100%

 

And than there is Bitfénix stating that they mean 100% load 24/7...

 

Or should we take a look at Seasonic Prime/650W:

http://www.tweakpc.de/hardware/tests/netzteile/seasonic_prime_titanium/s03.php

on 230VAC 94,4% @20% Load, ~94% at 100% Load.Top Efficiency around 40% with 95,1%

And also in 115VAC the peak Efficiency isn't at 50% Load but before that!

 

Quote

A Gold PSU is not going to perform as well at 95% usage as a Bronze one will at 50% usage. 

What the hell are you talking about?!

How do you come up with such bullshit?!

 

Take a look at more recent PSUs like Super Flower Leadex based ones and so on. 

There are a lot of Higher end (=Gold and better) PSU that perform better at 110% load than some/most Bronze units...

 

Because Bronze PSUs are almost entirely budget PSU, if at all. It's hard to find an indy regulated Bronze PSU nowadays, though the numbers are growing...

 

Quote

On top of that, just because a PSU is efficient, that doesn't mean it's good quality.  There are plenty of sh*tty Gold rated PSU's out there.

But not as much as Bronze grade PSU...

And most Gold rated PSU are pretty high quality...

 

Especially if you take a look at more reputable vendors like Listan, Seasonic, FSP and so on...

 

Seasonic has absolutely no really good Bronze unit but plenty of decent Gold Designs, same goes for FSP, only the Aurum based ones aren't that good, the rest is way better than the bronze ones...

 

Because there are no high quality Bronze units no more. They get too expansive and are too close to Gold, so the manufacturers go for gold in this case...

 

Quote

So your statement isn't necessarily true.

Than prove it!

 

You did nothing like that, not one of my points was disproved, you just claimed something - without any proof on your side!
 

I on the other hand can link to this:

https://seasonic.com/product-category/consumer-products/

http://fsp-europe.com/de/power-supply-units/

 

Show me the high quality Bronze series!!
OK, Seasonic has something around 750/850W, but not much else...

FSP has nothing, though their Aurum Gold aren't that good, the rest of the gold units are on the other hand.

[mariushm]

5 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

What are you talking about?!
Look at the box!!

This manufacturer says that his unit is able to deliver the mentioned wattage 24/7!

So if you need 450W, you best go for a 450W PSU.

 

 

 

No.

 

While it's true that such a power supply would indeed be capable of supplying the computer with 450w  24/7, it would be smart to buy a power supply advertised as capable of at least 500-550 watts for several reasons.

* the manufacturer may have configured the power supply's fan curve to go all the way up to 100% when the load goes over some high percentage, such as let's say 95% of power supply's output capability - the power supply may be very noisy

* most power supplies have a peak efficiency somewhere around 80-85% of their advertised maximum power, and from there the efficiency drops slowly.

 

In the second case, here's an example .. just linking to the last review on TechPowerUp of a GOLD rated psu, not picking special cases :  https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Bitfenix/BWG850M/6.html

 

 

As you can see, it's a 850w power supply which can output those 850w 24/7 but it's clearly most efficient at around 400 watts (50%) where it's almost 93% efficient.  At around 700w (80% load), it's down to about 91.5% efficiency mark and at 850w, the efficiency drops below 90%.

So if the user has a 400w load most of the time, he would get the best efficiency (close to 93%) with this particular power supply - a smaller 500w power supply would be probably only around 88% efficient at its maximum power output and would have the peak point somewhere lower at around 200-300w.

 

Just the same, a 450w or 500-550w power supply would be only about 88-90% efficient at 100% output

[Stefan Payne]

5 hours ago, mariushm said:

Just the same, a 450w or 500-550w power supply would be only about 88-90% efficient at 100% output

Without knowing what PSU you are talking about and that unit being tested, it's just speculation what you said here.

You can NOT say that PSU a is better because of more Watt, you have to look at the efficiency diagramm of that PSU to say something about it!

[mti027]

So, if I specified my question like this: 

 

When comparing the Seasonic Prime SSR-650TD, @ $150 USD (which would put my 400W system at about 80% of that PSU) VS something like the EVGA SuperNOVA G3 1000W, @$150 USD (putting my system at below 50% of that PSU) what is the difference? 

 

Running a lesser quality PSU at 50% load would not require the fans to run as much, giving me a quieter system, whereas the more efficient, and high quality Titanium PSU would be running at 80% load and require the fans to work to keep it cool, making it louder.  I know that the PRIME power supplies are supposed to be really quiet, but running at 80% load, is that still the case? 

I guess what I'm looking for is if I want to spend around $150 on a PSU, and I really want a quiet system, am I better off going for the "best" one for that price, even if its a 650W, or should I go for a 850 or 1000W PSU around that price?