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Piracy websites blocked by Cogent, one of the largest internet backbones.

KuJoe
By KuJoe
in Tech News
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Posted

It doesn't sit well with my that a Tier 1 provider has proven they can and will block content. I hope others will not follow.

if you have to insist you think for yourself, i'm not going to believe you.

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1 minute ago, Suika said:

It doesn't sit well with my that a Tier 1 provider has proven they can and will block content. I hope others will not follow.

Exactly, this is one of the points I was trying to make with my post. It's not about the content being blocked, it's about anything being blocked (and again, being blocked without a peep from the internet).

-KuJoe

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12 minutes ago, KuJoe said:

That isn't the point.

Surely if others continue users will rebel

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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1 minute ago, SamStrecker said:

Surely if others continue users will rebel

Users have no control. ISPs have no control. That's the point.

-KuJoe

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1 minute ago, KuJoe said:

Users have no control. ISPs have no control. That's the point.

I am sure people could find malicious ways to target their routers. On a side note even if you completely censor the internet people WILL find another way to get what they want. 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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54 minutes ago, SamStrecker said:

I am sure people could find malicious ways to target their routers. On a side note even if you completely censor the internet people WILL find another way to get what they want. 

The issue here is that Tier 1 providers are the origin source of the internet, you can't bypass them, not without using signal fires or messenger pigeons. It's a bit like having all the air/atmosphere sucked out of our planet, "oh I could bypass that with compressed air cylinders". Well where did you get the air from to fill that tank?

 

The find another way is anything that isn't using the internet.

 

As to breaking in to Tier 1 routers, yea brute forcing your way in to those types of equipment just isn't a thing now days. The only way that is possible is if they have a configuration error allowing you access to a management interface which would NEVER be exposed EVER, then you have to try and break past the login security and sure bet failed attempts is logged and alerted.

 

One does not simply mess with a Tier 1 provider, they'll crush you with lawyers.

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20 hours ago, leadeater said:

The point is what if some day Cogent goes "Damn those LMG guys are using a lot of bandwidth, blocked". Or any other website, country, subent etc. Tier 1 providers messing with traffic is extremely important, the internet is already the wild west and we don't need virtual showdowns firing "guns" at each other.

I don't see the problem.  This is a site for illegally sharing files isn't it?    Shutting that down is good not bad.

 

Especially since I'm guessing tons of douche bags probably use sites like that to help spread viruses and malware.   

 

I'll start worrying when I can't use Crunchyroll.  ?

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23 hours ago, Bleedingyamato said:

I don't see the problem.  This is a site for illegally sharing files isn't it?    Shutting that down is good not bad.

 

Especially since I'm guessing tons of douche bags probably use sites like that to help spread viruses and malware.   

 

I'll start worrying when I can't use Crunchyroll.  ?

True blocking an illegal service is fine, could argue TPB has sources for non-illegal stuff but who are we kidding :P, but the blocking shouldn't be done at a fundamental neutral transit layer.

 

The legal side of things is country and region specific and it should be the responsibility of the local retail service providers to block TPB. The USA police have nothing to do with NZ traffic laws, we don't even drive on the same side of the road or use the same unit of speed. They also have no legal right to come over here and enforce our traffic laws or USA traffic laws.

 

Tier 1 is comparable in a sense to international waters. There are international maritime laws & UNCLOS but local authorities are still responsible for enforcing these, and the basis of these is fair use of the oceans beyond sovereign waters.

 

What Cogent has done is sailed in to my nations waters and enforced a rule that they themselves have made up, no court order was given (we think).

 

It can be hard to gauge how bad something is when it comes to digital matters and the internet so finding an equivalent physical action then asking yourself "is this ok?" helps.

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6 minutes ago, leadeater said:

no court order was given

I'd just like to state that this is my assumption, they could have received a court order and either chose not to say anything or were required not to say anything. I just found it strange that if there was a court order Cogent would be the only US backbone provider that was served with it unless there is something bigger going on (i.e. the other backbone providers are cooperating and providing logs/information, Cogent is being targeted because of some affiliation with piracy, etc...) but from how it looks now their actions appear to be voluntary which is so much worse than a court order.

-KuJoe

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4 minutes ago, leadeater said:

True blocking an illegal service is fine, could argue TPB has sources for non-illegal stuff but who are we kidding :P, but the blocking shouldn't be done at a fundamental natural transit layer.

 

The legal side of things is country and region specific and it should be the responsibility of the local retail service providers to block TPB. The USA police have nothing to do with NZ traffic laws, we don't even drive on the same side of the road or use the same unit of speed. They also have no legal right to come over here and enforce our traffic laws or USA traffic laws.

 

Tier 1 is comparable in a sense to international waters. There are international maritime laws & UNCLOS but local authorities are still responsible for enforcing these, and the basis of these is fair use of the oceans beyond sovereign waters.

 

What Cogent has done is sailed in to my nations waters and enforced a rule that they themselves have made up, no court order was given.

 

It can be hard to gauge how bad something is when it comes to digital matters and the internet so finding an equivalent physical action then asking yourself "is this ok?" helps.

I guess that makes sense.  I certainly wouldn't want anyone deciding to start messing with more than just a pirating site.  

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8 hours ago, leadeater said:

The issue here is that Tier 1 providers are the origin source of the internet, you can't bypass them, not without using signal fires or messenger pigeons. It's a bit like having all the air/atmosphere sucked out of our planet, "oh I could bypass that with compressed air cylinders". Well where did you get the air from to fill that tank?

 

The find another way is anything that isn't using the internet.

 

As to breaking in to Tier 1 routers, yea brute forcing your way in to those types of equipment just isn't a thing now days. The only way that is possible is if they have a configuration error allowing you access to a management interface which would NEVER be exposed EVER, then you have to try and break past the login security and sure bet failed attempts is logged and alerted.

 

One does not simply mess with a Tier 1 provider, they'll crush you with lawyers.

Does the government play any role in Tier 1 providers

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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2 minutes ago, SamStrecker said:

Does the government play any role in Tier 1 providers

Yes, they allow them to operate as a business and control where they are allowed to lay cables and document that along with other things like power/gas/water. They also have to comply with any laws and regulations, including ones that allow them to tap in to the traffic and monitor it for national security. Just to name a few things.

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Update

Quote

It is safe to say that The Pirate Bay is one of the most blocked websites on the Internet.

When Internet backbone provider Cogent blackholed the site two weeks ago many people, therefore, assumed that it had something to do with the notorious torrent site.

Ironically, however, it turns out that The Pirate Bay and dozens of other “pirate” sites linked to the same IP-addresses, were actually collateral damage following a separate action.

Cogent’s actions were a direct response to a court order which required the company to block access to one or more websites, which remain unknown. The real target was accessible through the IP-addresses 104.31.18.30 and 104.31.19.30.

 

These addresses belong to CDN provider Cloudflare and are also used by many other sites including The Pirate Bay. So, when Cogent complied with the court order and blackholed the IP-addresses, dozens of other sites became inaccessible as well.

 

Yesterday we reported that Cloudflare moved most of the affected sites a new location, so they are now available again. The real target probably remains on the original IP-addresses, to comply with the court order.

Cloudflare’s General Counsel Doug Kramer informed us that they worked together with Cogent to resolve the issue and to limit the impact on other sites.

 

“We have taken technical steps on our end to permit Cogent to comply with a court order issued to them without additional impacts,” Kramer informed TorrentFreak.

 

The whole blocking episode reveals the danger of broad blocking orders that are issued by judges who don’t fully understand the effects. The threat of over-blocking is real, and when it involves smaller sites it will be much harder to notice.

 

“It’s important for courts to understand how Internet systems work so they can write orders that don’t end up having unintended consequences,” Kramer stresses.

 

In the future, the two companies will now be able to deal with similar issues more efficiently. In any case, Cloudflare says that it remains dedicated to preserving open access to the Internet, within the legal boundaries.

 

So Piratebay wasn't the target nor were most of the sites blocked, it doesn't appear the site intended to be blocked was listed by name and this confusion occurred due to all the sites having the same ip address

https://torrentfreak.com/cogents-broad-pirate-site-block-was-collateral-damage-of-a-court-order-170217/

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/631048-psu-tier-list-updated/ Tier Breakdown (My understanding)--1 Godly, 2 Great, 3 Good, 4 Average, 5 Meh, 6 Bad, 7 Awful

 

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10 minutes ago, AresKrieger said:

Update

So Piratebay wasn't the target nor were most of the sites blocked, it doesn't appear the site intended to be blocked was listed by name and this confusion occurred due to all the sites having the same ip address

https://torrentfreak.com/cogents-broad-pirate-site-block-was-collateral-damage-of-a-court-order-170217/

Thanks for the update, good information. Also clearly based on the information in this article the court order should have gone to CloudFlare and not Cogent, sighhh really wish courts would consult technical experts before making ill-informed rulings.

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Posted
  • Author

The only reason it would make any sense for Cogent to be the only provider to receive a court order would be that the targeted site was hosted in a Cogent owned data center since they don't have multi-homed connections.

-KuJoe

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