Upgrading laptop GPU

[Funtoink63]

Hi,

A few months ago, I bought a ~2010 gaming laptop for like a 1/4 of its price. It does have socket mounted Intel i7 740QM and Nvidia GTX 470m via MXM 3.0. Other specs are 17.3' FHD display, 8GB ram, 500GB SSHD.

 

I just found 3 guys, who are selling notebooks GPUs "somewhat cheap":

1st: Nvidia GTX 670m ?GB 144€

2nd: Nvidia GTX 770m 3GB 140€

3rd: Nvidia GTX 675m 3GB 180€

       AMD Radeon 7970m 2GB 180€

       AMD Radeon R9 M290X 2GB 220€

 

It should be able to cool 100w TDP card since it has GTX 480m listed in manual.

Which one would you recommend me to buy?

[ShepBook]

All the laptops I've seen have the GPU soldered to the motherboard. That's no easy task to remove and replace.

[TAHIRMIA]

It's not possible to do. 

[Electronics Wizardy]

2 minutes ago, ShepBook said:

All the laptops I've seen have the GPU soldered to the motherboard. That's no easy task to remove and replace.

No its on a card. 

 

 

 

I'd get the 770m

[Naeaes]

1 minute ago, ShepBook said:

All the laptops I've seen have the GPU soldered to the motherboard. That's no easy task to remove and replace.

This is MXM3.0. It's a card and 100% swappable. 

 

OP, you can see in the pic I linked the two variants of MXM3.0. Make sure you get the right one. The bigger won't fit in a smaller slot. I'd go for the 770m myself if nothing from 900-series isn't available. IMHO, if the cooling can handle the 470m, it can handle anything. 400-series was a hot line of card. 

[ShepBook]

1 minute ago, Naeaes said:

This is MXM3.0. It's a card and 100% swappable. 

Well, that's pretty cool. I'm just so used to BGA chips soldered on to the mobo.

[Funtoink63]

2 minutes ago, ShepBook said:

All the laptops I've seen have the GPU soldered to the motherboard. That's no easy task to remove and replace.

 

1 minute ago, TAHIRMIA said:

It's not possible to do. 

Didn't read the post did you guys?

6 minutes ago, Funtoink63 said:

It does have socket mounted Intel i7 740QM and Nvidia GTX 470m via MXM 3.0.

I actually opened it and it does have MXM 3.0 card in it.

 

2 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

I'd get the 770m

Would be both Radeons bottlenected by CPU or because they aren't worth that price?

[Funtoink63]

3 minutes ago, Naeaes said:

This is MXM3.0. It's a card and 100% swappable. 

 

OP, you can see in the pic I linked the two variants of MXM3.0. Make sure you get the right one. The bigger won't fit in a smaller slot. I'd go for the 770m myself if nothing from 900-series isn't available. IMHO, if the cooling can handle the 470m, it can handle anything. 400-series was a hot line of card. 

I took the bottom lid off and saw what looks like to be MXM 3.0b.

1 minute ago, ShepBook said:

Well, that's pretty cool. I'm just so used to BGA chips soldered on to the mobo.

Even CPU is swappable. It sits in the socket.

[Electronics Wizardy]

3 minutes ago, Funtoink63 said:

 

Didn't read the post did you guys?

I actually opened it and it does have MXM 3.0 card in it.

 

Would be both Radeons bottlenected by CPU or because they aren't worth that price?

Nvidia is normally much better in laptops. There less cut down and support Optimus and use less power. 

[Simon771]

Should be possible, but is it worth it?

Those GPUs aren't that cheap as far as I know.

[Funtoink63]

18 minutes ago, Naeaes said:

 I'd go for the 770m myself if nothing from 900-series isn't available. IMHO, if the cooling can handle the 470m, it can handle anything. 400-series was a hot line of card. 

Locally, there isn't any listing/ads for 900 series laptop GPUs. To this day, I haven't seen one, and I've been looking at listings/ads for like a year now.

Also, 970m on EBAY cost nearly/more than double the price I paid for the laptop (or atleast the buy now ones).

Also, with 900 or even 800 series, wouldn't be there issue with current CPU being bottleneck?

 

7 minutes ago, Simon771 said:

Should be possible, but is it worth it?

Those GPUs aren't that cheap as far as I know.

It is possible, so is CPU. Worth it? Don't know... I already have two other laptops and I don't need 4th laptop. I would rather upgrade this one than buying another one since this one was so cheap.

Also, those 5 I listed are "cheaper" than ones listed on EBAY.

[Pendragon]

1 hour ago, Funtoink63 said:

Also, with 900 or even 800 series, wouldn't be there issue with current CPU being bottleneck?

2

It depends what the CPU is. Which are you referring to? 

[Funtoink63]

1 minute ago, Pendragon said:

It depends what the CPU is. Which are you referring to? 

Current CPU is Intel I7 740QM (45w 4C 8T 1.73Ghz base, 2.93 turbo). Sometime later I would like to replace it with i7 940XM (55w 4C 8T 2.13Ghz base 3.33 turbo) since it does support 55w TDP CPUs.

Whether the current 740QM (or maybe later the 940XM) wouldn't bottleneck GTX 800 or 900 series since it is 2010 CPU and 8/9 are like 2014.

[Pendragon]

2 minutes ago, Funtoink63 said:

Current CPU is Intel I7 740QM (45w 4C 8T 1.73Ghz base, 2.93 turbo). Sometime later I would like to replace it with i7 940XM (55w 4C 8T 2.13Ghz base 3.33 turbo) since it does support 55w TDP CPUs.

2

I meant what laptop  

But if you get a 940XM hmm that's pretty old. I honestly can't tell. The benches people ran for that are completely different from the benches I use and recognize today. I'd say go up to the 7 series at most with that. @D2ultima opinions?

[Funtoink63]

3 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

I meant what laptop  

But if you get a 940XM hmm that's pretty old. I honestly can't tell. The benches people ran for that are completely different from the benches I use and recognize today. I'd say go up to the 7 series at most with that. @D2ultima opinions?

Clevo W880CU a ~2010 laptop.

[D2ultima]

2 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

I meant what laptop  

But if you get a 940XM hmm that's pretty old. I honestly can't tell. The benches people ran for that are completely different from the benches I use and recognize today. I'd say go up to the 7 series at most with that. @D2ultima opinions?

Need to know the actual system before I could judge. A 470M supporting machine though could probably run a 780M without issue. But it depends on what the machine is. If it's a Clevo it needs a BIOS update and it probably won't be easy to do so.

 

If it's the M15X from Alienware you could shove a 970M in it without problem as far as I know.

[Pendragon]

2 minutes ago, Funtoink63 said:

Clevo W880CU a ~2010 laptop.

@D2ultima I have not been around this long to know what that is LOL. 

[D2ultima]

1 minute ago, Pendragon said:

@D2ultima I have not been around this long to know what that is LOL. 

It was around the D900F time. A 2010 or so laptop. It won't be upgrade-able without a BIOS modification, so 400M is basically what he's stuck with.

 

If he wants he can contact Prema and maybe 600M might work, but I can't be perfectly sure. At least he doesn't have Optimus/Enduro to worry about. Cancer tech.

[Funtoink63]

1 minute ago, D2ultima said:

It was around the D900F time. A 2010 or so laptop. It won't be upgrade-able without a BIOS modification, so 400M is basically what he's stuck with.

 

If he wants he can contact Prema and maybe 600M might work, but I can't be perfectly sure. At least he doesn't have Optimus/Enduro to worry about. Cancer tech.

1. Does Clevo add some bios lock or something that prevents other components to work?

2. Who is Prema?.

3. What is Optimus/ Enduro and why are they cancer?

[D2ultima]

9 minutes ago, Funtoink63 said:

1. Does Clevo add some bios lock or something that prevents other components to work?

2. Who is Prema?.

3. What is Optimus/ Enduro and why are they cancer?

Clevo's software (meaning BIOS, EC and hotkey/control center programs) are shit. Your machine likely will not recognize a later card, or may simply even fail to boot, without the BIOS supporting it, because of how laptop cards work. They did not implement proper MXM design functionality until many years after your model, and right as they implemented it, MXM basically died.

 

Prema is a BIOS modder who makes custom, unlocked, updated (security/feature-wise) BIOSes for Clevo notebooks. Clevo's hardware is great, and their software a large cripple. Prema un-cripples, and they become the only "good" notebooks in the world, as far as pretty much every notebook enthusiast will find. He may be able to help, but he is rather busy right now. I don't know if he has such old files, or if it was ever even possible for that machine to physically take a later card. For example, the PxxxEM line launched with 600M, and cannot take 700M/800M, but can take 900M. Prema's website is here: https://biosmods.wordpress.com/

 

Optimus (nVidia) and Enduro (AMD) is a technology that allows the displays to be run by the iGPU on your processor, with the dGPU as a number cruncher. There is some overhead and performance loss, though small. Also, some times when it conflicts with programs heavily, and unstable/undesirable situations arise. The only benefit to the technology is better battery life and the ability to use the PC with a broken dGPU. The downsides are all the limitations of the iGPU, plus the performance loss, plus the problems with programs (though they have shrunk with the years), plus the inability to access nVidia/AMD functions for your screen (like Gsync/Freesync, refresh rate overclocking, custom resolutions and downsampling, etc). To anyone who actually wants a performance notebook, it's cancer. There is a MUX switch option which lets you with a reboot switch from iGPU to dGPU or to Optimus/Enduro, but this was only present on Legacy alienwares (when they actually made good laptops) and recent Clevo BGA models (like the P650RE3 or P670HS etc). It is, however, the best way to attempt battery life balancing with proper gaming modes.

[Pendragon]

5 minutes ago, D2ultima said:

refresh rate overclocking

speaking of this, i ran into something weird today. After I oced my screen to 69hz (highest stable oc), the games i tried to run dragon age 2, starcraft 2 for testing couldn't full screen. Like I would try to force full screen it but it would still open up windowed. I've only ever seen it when a game refuses to full screen cause of teamviewer in the background. 

[D2ultima]

1 minute ago, Pendragon said:

speaking of this, i ran into something weird today. After I oced my screen to 69hz (highest stable oc), the games i tried to run dragon age 2, starcraft 2 for testing couldn't full screen. Like I would try to force full screen it but it would still open up windowed. I've only ever seen it when a game refuses to full screen cause of teamviewer in the background. 

That one I can't help ya with. Never seen that.

[Funtoink63]

13 minutes ago, D2ultima said:

Clevo's software

I thought that MXM GPUs are like PCIE cards, like... "plug n play".  Didn't know that you have create special bios for each GPU otherwise it wouldn't work.

13 minutes ago, D2ultima said:

Prema is a BIOS modder who makes custom, unlocked, updated (security/feature-wise) BIOSes for Clevo notebooks. Clevo's hardware is great, and their software a large cripple. Prema un-cripples, and they become the only "good" notebooks in the world, as far as pretty much every notebook enthusiast will find.

His site says "DONATIONWARE", that means I will have to like... commission/pay him to create a "fixed" bios for me? Also how much does he charge for custom bios?

13 minutes ago, D2ultima said:

Optimus (nVidia) and Enduro (AMD)

Didn't know that. CPU doesn't have iGPU, so I guess I wouldn't have problem with it.

.

Would swapping some of these cause some issue?

- CPU from i7 740QM to I7 940XM? current 740QM is listed in laptop manual alongside with 720QM, 820QM, 840QM and 920XM, however 940XM is not

- GPU from GTX 470m to 480m? 480m is listed in manual

- i know this is probably stupid but... manual says max 8GB of ram, possibility of 16GB?

[D2ultima]

11 minutes ago, Funtoink63 said:

I thought that MXM GPUs are like PCIE cards, like... "plug n play".  Didn't know that you have create special bios for each GPU otherwise it wouldn't work.

 

His site says "DONATIONWARE", that means I will have to like... commission/pay him to create a "fixed" bios for me? Also how much does he charge for custom bios?

 

Didn't know that. CPU doesn't have iGPU, so I guess I wouldn't have problem with it.

.

Would swapping some of these cause some issue?

- CPU from i7 740QM to I7 940XM? current 740QM is listed in laptop manual alongside with 720QM, 820QM, 840QM and 920XM, however 940XM is not

- GPU from GTX 470m to 480m? 480m is listed in manual

- i know this is probably stupid but... manual says max 8GB of ram, possibility of 16GB?

Proper MXM design, yes. Special BIOS is not necessary if you have proper MXM designs. Alienware's M17x R1 sold with 200M series... you could shove an 880M in it and it'd boot with no problem whatsoever. Alienware was the only company making proper MXM designs until Clevo's PxxxSM-A models.

 

He may have a BIOS laying around which he may give for free, or you may have to give him a copy of your BIOS and pay him some. He does not have a set price; this is up to you. Maybe $20 is enough, maybe you want to give $100, I can't say.

 

Your CPU has an iGPU. Clevo simply didn't enable Optimus/Enduro until the PxxxEM series, two model generations above yours (the PxxxHM is inbetween yours and the EM line).

940XM should work, however 920XM would be as sufficient. Just make sure it's being cooled and overclock it a bit.

480M should not need a BIOS upgrade, however 485M is what I would suggest... 480M was a terrible card.

16GB may or may not work. I don't know. It's possible at the time there were only 4GB SODIMMs for DDR3 and your machine had 2 slots. Prema may be able to answer this easier.

[Funtoink63]

4 minutes ago, D2ultima said:

He may have a BIOS laying around which he may give for free, or you may have to give him a copy of your BIOS and pay him some. He does not have a set price; this is up to you. Maybe $20 is enough, maybe you want to give $100, I can't say.

16GB may or may not work. I don't know. It's possible at the time there were only 4GB SODIMMs for DDR3 and your machine had 2 slots. Prema may be able to answer this easier.

That ram... I thought if Linus could replace ram on some of those mini PC from its "maximum" 16GB to 32GB, that if it would work here too...

But yeah, I'll try ask Prema about it.

Quote

Your CPU has an iGPU. Clevo simply didn't enable Optimus/Enduro until the PxxxEM series, two model generations above yours (the PxxxHM is inbetween yours and the EM line).

I'm looking at the Intel Ark and the "processor graphics field" is empty for all CPUs I listed.

http://ark.intel.com/products/family/59143/Previous-Generation-Intel-Core-i7-Processor#@Mobile

http://ark.intel.com/products/family/59142/Previous-Generation-Intel-Core-i7-Extreme-Processor#@Mobile

Maybe it has iGPU disabled directly from Intel.

Quote

940XM should work, however 920XM would be as sufficient. Just make sure it's being cooled and overclock it a bit.

Wait, you can oveclock these?

Quote

480M should not need a BIOS upgrade, however 485M is what I would suggest... 480M was a terrible card.

Whats wrong with it? Is 485m like a better/optimised revision of 480m?