Hardware enthusiasts unite and save me - Will this laptop run VR?

[Armakar]

So i made a thread (still open if you want to recommend something :

 

I currently own a laptop I bought this week that has a i7 6700HQ and a 1060 in it and i'm totally unhappy with the performance, it can't run Raw Data on the lowest graphics my Vive takes. So, I thought i'd expand my budget to as much as I can (1600-1700 GBP)

 

This isn't the laptop i'm buying, but it will be the same spec as this :https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01KFG3QTK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2M0LXPQQPIK05 , it MIGHT have a 7700HQ (if my budget can take it )

 

I don't know much about laptop specs, but I know alot about desktop specs. If anyone could make a realistic dekstop performance equivelant of this laptop, that would be great. From what I can tell, it would perform somewhat like a i5 6600 + 970 (perhaps 980) desktop sytem, but I could very well be wrong, as my current 1060 laptop performs nowhere near what the 970 (later 980) pc I had last year performed.

 

So, will this run VR (HTC Vive)? Will it be able to max out games like H1Z1 : King of the Kill, Garry's Mod, World of Warcraft and Planetside 2? What's it bottlenecked by?

 

Thanks!

[Mr.Meerkat]

the laptop you currently have has a desktop 1060 so...I don't understand why it's not working for VR...(the 1060 is faster than a 970 and slightly beats a 980) while the 1070 can beat a 980ti so...

[Armakar]

2 minutes ago, Mr.Meerkat said:

the laptop you currently have has a desktop 1060 so...I don't understand why it's not working for VR...(the 1060 is faster than a 970 and slightly beats a 980) while the 1070 can beat a 980ti so...

I don't think you quite understand - these aren't the same as desktop GPUs, dispite what was advertised. My friend has a desktop ASUS reference 1060 that shreds 1080p and gets 150 FPS in H1Z1 KOTK maxed out. This laptop in H1Z1 KOTK can't break 50FPS.  What you said is correct for desktop GPU's - not for laptops ( I don't even know if alaptop with a 980ti exists)

[Mr.Meerkat]

1 minute ago, Armakar said:

I don't think you quite understand - these aren't the same as desktop GPUs. What you said is correct for desktop GPU's - not for laptops ( I don't even know if alaptop with a 980ti exists)

There's a reason why there's no "m" after the 1060 and 1070, they're both desktop class GPUs  

All pascal based laptop GPUs at the moment are full desktop chips with a little downclocking to help them run at a slightly lower TDP for them to be more suitable for laptop solutions.

[porina]

With current nvidia 10 generation there is no distinction between desktop and mobile versions, although thermals might still be a problem. 1060 is getting towards the minimum spec but should be ok. The problem is I'm sure specs will start to go up, so it never hurts to go higher anyway. 1070 is what I use in my VR desktop, although 980Ti is also fine.

 

On the current laptop, try running some monitoring software while in VR and see what the CPU and GPU are doing. Are they at expected clocks or limiting for some reason?

[Thony]

5 minutes ago, Armakar said:

I don't think you quite understand - these aren't the same as desktop GPUs, dispite what was advertised. My friend has a desktop ASUS reference 1060 that shreds 1080p and gets 150 FPS in H1Z1 KOTK maxed out. This laptop in H1Z1 KOTK can't break 50FPS.  What you said is correct for desktop GPU's - not for laptops ( I don't even know if alaptop with a 980ti exists)

I own 1060 and know for a fact he is not maxing out that game at 150 FPS LOL that card doesnt run the game on low settings at 150 FPS because the game is garbage... So your friend is either a liar or you like to overestimate.

Can you do Steam VR test and let us know what u got for the results ?

[Armakar]

1 minute ago, Thony said:

I own 1060 and know for a fact he is not maxing out that game at 150 FPS LOL that card doesnt run the game on low settings at 150 FPS because the game is garbage... So your friend is a liar.

He's not a liar - I built his PC myself and he maxes out every game in 1080p without breaking a sweat - i've seen it myself. I OC'd it by about 350MHZ ( he won the silicon lottery I guess ) , but still , it DOES max out everything at 1080 without an issue.

The only thing I've ever seen it lag while doing is supersampling up to 4k.

[ARikozuM]

4 minutes ago, Mr.Meerkat said:

the laptop you currently have has a desktop 1060 so...I don't understand why it's not working for VR...(the 1060 is faster than a 970 and slightly beats a 980) while the 1070 can beat a 980ti so...

The desktop 1060s in laptops get downclocked to meet heat thresholds.

 

@Armakar Does your laptop have an HDMI port and a USB port?

[Thony]

4 minutes ago, Armakar said:

He's not a liar - I built his PC myself and he maxes out every game in 1080p without breaking a sweat - i've seen it myself. I OC'd it by about 350MHZ ( he won the silicon lottery I guess ) , but still , it DOES max out everything at 1080 without an issue.

The only thing I've ever seen it lag while doing is supersampling up to 4k.

Then dont mentioned extremely overclocked cards when u need help with a laptop  its unfair comparison.

Do the VR test please, im curious what u get.

[Mr.Meerkat]

2 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

The desktop 1060s in laptops get downclocked to meet heat thresholds

Ye ye, clarified that in my second post  

 

2 minutes ago, Armakar said:

He's not a liar - I built his PC myself and he maxes out every game in 1080p without breaking a sweat - i've seen it myself. I OC'd it by about 350MHZ ( he won the silicon lottery I guess ) , but still , it DOES max out everything at 1080 without an issue.

I'm sure the 1060 can max out any game at 1080p quite easily but you know, h1z1 is one of those games where FPS is directly affected whether you're in a city or not

 

1 minute ago, Thony said:

Do the VR test please, im curious what u get. Even cut down 1070 laptop version should be at leeast 90% performance of full size 1060.

you mean 1060? 

[FAQBytes]

I feel like there is an issue somewhere, as you shouldn't be having such a disparity in performance.

 

I recommend getting HwInfo64 as that will give you a lit of the information, and will even tell you if something is thermal throttling or giving errors. I actually discovered that the computer I built for my dad had a bad stick of ECC memory, so the computer didn't crash, and didn't even throw an error in POST. After seeing it was slower than his old computer (Old was i7-860 and new is an E5-1620), I downloaded it and it showed there was an issue with a stick that was damaged in some way and causing it to throw several thousand errors per second that was caught by HwInfo.  Using that, I was able to determine which DIMM was giving us problems and remove it. Despite being down a channel, it still far outperformed the old computer by a (now) pretty wide margin. 

 

While this almost certainly isn't your problem, it is a very useful diagnostic tool and you should think about seeing if it catches anything.

[Thony]

8 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

The desktop 1060s in laptops get downclocked to meet heat thresholds.

 

@Armakar Does your laptop have an HDMI port and a USB port?

It should still beat 960 which is VR ready (they lowered the requirements a while ago didint they ?)

[ARikozuM]

1 minute ago, Thony said:

It should still beat 960 which is VR ready (they lowered the requirements a while ago didint they ?)

Only for the Rift. Meeting the "hardware" requirements means nothing if you don't meet the "input" requirements. The minimum from my experience should be a 970 since it'll hit 90hz in nearly every game.

[xboxonthego3]

Interesting makes me wonder if the laptop you used thermal throttled or you didn't have it plugged in while playing. I own a laptop with an i7-6700HQ and a GTX 1060. And happen to own the game. Although I haven't played it. I'll see if I have time this evening to test it out. But it should be able to play it. Unless the recommended requirements of the game are higher than the standard VR requirements.

[Thony]

13 minutes ago, xboxonthego3 said:

Interesting makes me wonder if the laptop you used thermal throttled or you didn't have it plugged in while playing. I own a laptop with an i7-6700HQ and a GTX 1060. And happen to own the game. Although I haven't played it. I'll see if I have time this evening to test it out. But it should be able to play it. Unless the recommended requirements of the game are higher than the standard VR requirements.

The game is not well optimized at all and on top of that its been in ALPHA status for 3 years now  "render distance" effects performance greatly, so keep it at 1500 max.

[Armakar]

32 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

The desktop 1060s in laptops get downclocked to meet heat thresholds.

 

@Armakar Does your laptop have an HDMI port and a USB port?

Yes, why?

[Armakar]

21 minutes ago, xboxonthego3 said:

Interesting makes me wonder if the laptop you used thermal throttled or you didn't have it plugged in while playing. I own a laptop with an i7-6700HQ and a GTX 1060. And happen to own the game. Although I haven't played it. I'll see if I have time this evening to test it out. But it should be able to play it. Unless the recommended requirements of the game are higher than the standard VR requirements.

I was maxed out settings. I t can run it, but not maxed out like I expected.

[D2ultima]

1 hour ago, Mr.Meerkat said:

There's a reason why there's no "m" after the 1060 and 1070, they're both desktop class GPUs  

All pascal based laptop GPUs at the moment are full desktop chips with a little downclocking to help them run at a slightly lower TDP for them to be more suitable for laptop solutions.

It's not slight. It's severe. 1060s basically don't cross 80W, 1070s can't pull over about 115-120W. They do not boost. They're all neutered to no end on mobile 1060N performs about like a 980M and 1070N performs about like a 980 with a small overclock.

 

They're NOT desktop GPUs in the slightest... they just have the same specs and a reduced clockspeed (note: 680M was a 670 with a downclock, 780M and 880M were 680/770 with a downclock as well, and 580M was 560Ti with a downclock... this is not new, though since the "xx80" GPU is now midranged, they can just shove the whole thing in a notebook and not need to re-name it. Only reason 980M wasn't a 980N from the get-go was because they wanted to sell 980Ms and just sell the 980N later on as people would have to change laptops to get one).

 

If you want notebook class GPUs to act like desktop ones, you need to flash a custom vBIOS. And you can only do that if you buy a Clevo from a Prema partner shop. Svet for MSI no longer does custom vBIOSes.

 

1070N cards barely pass 1500MHz and hover around 1481 to 1506MHz, instead of the 1645MHz+ they're rated to boost for.

1060N cards follow a similar story.

 

1 hour ago, porina said:

With current nvidia 10 generation there is no distinction between desktop and mobile versions

See above.

1 hour ago, porina said:

although thermals might still be a problem.

Thermals can be a problem (and are with the majority of thin laptops that have Pascal in them) but it isn't *the* reason why 1060N/1070N/1080N cards perform sub-optimally than what they're promised (which is within 10% of their desktop counterparts). Their TDP limits them (except Clevo/MSI 1080N cards... possibly Alienware too; not sure) and they simply will not boost, where Pascal needs boost to get the performance advertised. That's why Pascal's boost is in the vicinity of 300MHz or more above stock, unlike Kepler/Maxwell, and OEMs get to say "if it isn't going under base clock it's not throttling" and don't have to deal with returns.

 

Yes yes I know it sounds tin-foil-hat-ish, but it's the truth. Every generation has had cards underperforming by design. 980Ms had significant power throttling problems. The drivers that removed overclocking alleviated the problems, so people with 980Ms basically got a "free" performance boost. When they re-enabled OCing they reverted it. I'd never use Kepler, Maxwell or Pascal mobile GPUs on a primary machine without a custom vBIOS because of all the crap they've done. I couldn't even run 120Hz on my machine when I got it, because 780M SLI vBIOS couldn't even draw enough power for 120Hz and it would artifact me constantly... I had to use custom vBIOSes JUST to gain basic functionality, far less anything with overclocking.

1 hour ago, Thony said:

It should still beat 960 which is VR ready (they lowered the requirements a while ago didint they ?)

Nope, still a 970... 980M requires overclocking to get there, and the 1060N falls short of it.

[Armakar]

2 hours ago, FAQBytes said:

I feel like there is an issue somewhere, as you shouldn't be having such a disparity in performance.

 

I recommend getting HwInfo64 as that will give you a lit of the information, and will even tell you if something is thermal throttling or giving errors. I actually discovered that the computer I built for my dad had a bad stick of ECC memory, so the computer didn't crash, and didn't even throw an error in POST. After seeing it was slower than his old computer (Old was i7-860 and new is an E5-1620), I downloaded it and it showed there was an issue with a stick that was damaged in some way and causing it to throw several thousand errors per second that was caught by HwInfo.  Using that, I was able to determine which DIMM was giving us problems and remove it. Despite being down a channel, it still far outperformed the old computer by a (now) pretty wide margin. 

 

While this almost certainly isn't your problem, it is a very useful diagnostic tool and you should think about seeing if it catches anything.

Downloaded HWinfo64, ran h1z1 nothing popped up, temps seem fine.  Also downloaded MSI afterburner , all clock speeds expected.

[Pendragon]

30 minutes ago, Armakar said:

Downloaded HWinfo64, ran h1z1 nothing popped up, temps seem fine.  Also downloaded MSI afterburner , all clock speeds expected.

post it. 

[Armakar]

3 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

post it. 

 

3 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

post it. 

post what exactly, a screenshot of the program running?

 

Also thought i'd mentionm according to this website : http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-1060-Laptop-Benchmarks-and-Specs.169547.0.html , users with my spec score between 10000 (minimum) and 12000 on Firestrike 3DMark - just ran it and I scored 8710.

[D2ultima]

2 minutes ago, Armakar said:

 

post what exactly, a screenshot of the program running?

 

Also thought i'd mentionm according to this website : http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-1060-Laptop-Benchmarks-and-Specs.169547.0.html , users with my spec score between 10000 (minimum) and 12000 on Firestrike 3DMark - just ran it and I scored 8710.

You are specifically getting under the performance you should.

 

I wonder if it's because you have optimus or some sort of system-wide frame limiter causing problems?

[Armakar]

4 minutes ago, D2ultima said:

You are specifically getting under the performance you should.

 

I wonder if it's because you have optimus or some sort of system-wide frame limiter causing problems?

As in MSI have deliberate restricted performance?

[D2ultima]

1 minute ago, Armakar said:

As in MSI have deliberate restricted performance?

You'd have to let me at the laptop for about 15 minutes to find out.

[Armakar]

1 minute ago, D2ultima said:

You'd have to let me at the laptop for about 15 minutes to find out.

Can teamviewer if you want - add my skype (lawrence_banks1998)