illegal immigrants

[HughMungusCynicalAnarch]

42 minutes ago, MrDynamicMan said:

LMAO. 

1) if they're illegal how the hell do you think they get welfare? 

2) cali ain't seceding, and if it does it would be pretty frickin successful. You know, being the entertainment and tech powerhouse of the world. If the shit you said did happen the US would be facing action from nato. 

3) in both NY and LA white people are the largest demographic, and roughly 50% of them are men. Believe or not, your skin color and genitalia don't decide your political position. 

 

You are so stuck in your rhetoric that you can't see how ironically similar you are to the SJWs you so despise. Replace white with POC and welfare with Patriarchy in your statement and its practically interchangeable. Do us all a favor and go back to TD, where the level of conversation is low enough for you to get angry about and agree with. 

 

OR

Take a good hard look at your viewpoints and challenge them, be critical of yourself. But we both know that with happen, will it?

 

Edit: in b4 lock

Dumbass, school and instate tuition for their illegal kids is welfare, min wage Is welfare, free hospital visits is welfare and millions of illegals were granted amnesty and they do get all the benefits.

 

LOL it wouldn't. Northern cali would remain part of the USA and the government owns vast swaths of land in cali. Also cali is due for a major earthquake and for another ark storm. Over a trillion in damages for either event. And NATO wouldn't do fucking shit, we are NATO and we spend more money on our military than any other nation on the planet. California would become our slave state and controlling their water supply is perfectly legitimate given it would come from The USA and it's our fucking water.

 

mexicans(80 percent of illegal immigrants) are mainly democrat. democrats are less likely to deport them and take away their welfare and plenty of white men are cucks that vote directly against their own interests. If that wasn't the case affirmative action wouldn't exist and Europe wouldn't be filled with millions of muslims that do nothing but lower the nations living standards down.

 

except the things I describe are actually real and you seem to forget sjws are the ones in power. I don't know what TD is.

[MrDynamicMan]

5 hours ago, HughMungusCynicalAnarch said:

Dumbass, school and instate tuition for their illegal kids is welfare, min wage Is welfare, free hospital visits is welfare and millions of illegals were granted amnesty and they do get all the benefits.

 

LOL it wouldn't. Northern cali would remain part of the USA and the government owns vast swaths of land in cali. Also cali is due for a major earthquake and for another ark storm. Over a trillion in damages for either event. And NATO wouldn't do fucking shit, we are NATO and we spend more money on our military than any other nation on the planet. California would become our slave state and controlling their water supply is perfectly legitimate given it would come from The USA and it's our fucking water.

 

mexicans(80 percent of illegal immigrants) are mainly democrat. democrats are less likely to deport them and take away their welfare and plenty of white men are cucks that vote directly against their own interests. If that wasn't the case affirmative action wouldn't exist and Europe wouldn't be filled with millions of muslims that do nothing but lower the nations living standards down.

 

except the things I describe are actually real and you seem to forget sjws are the ones in power. I don't know what TD is.

Show me a credible source on illegal immigrants using public school en mass. 

 

I know it wouldn't. It would be a stupid move. 

 

Now you're conflating legal immigrants with illegal. Sure Mexicans are majority democratic. So what! They're legal citizens and have every right to vote. 

 

I vote dem out of my best interest. Increased taxation to improve infrastructure is the way to go. I'd happily pay that extra 5% if it goes towards improving health care and education. Better infrastructure means a stronger economy, and that means higher standards of living. 

 

SJWs are the ones in power. You sure about that one? Have you been under a rock the past six months. (do you not even see the irony in your words?) 

 

TD is a cancerous subreddit called The_Donald. It bans anyone who has an original thought or even slightly criticizes Donald Trump, and is simply a safe space circlejerk for the alt right. 

[RocketFarmer]

I find it hilarious to hear people from other countries with far stricter immigration policies criticizing the US on their weak, frequently unenforced immigration policy for being too strict.

 

Immigration, legal or illegal, is an issue in the US because of the practice of giving free "benefits" when the country and states are financially incapable of providing such resources (whether those resources/benefits suck or not is the subject of a different thread).  The US is broke and has been for a long time.  Only reason they've not gone the way of many so-called third world countries (and second world countries, mind you) is because the US dollar is still held as a reserve currency, and the US manipulates the hell out of that (not to mention economic blackmail on a scale never before seen in history).  The number of US citizens who don't pay federal income taxes is somewhere between 45-48% (withholding taxes are offset by income tax returns, plus some even get more than they pay in via "earned income credits").  So they have a significant number of people who want to push for more "free" stuff.  Not a recipe for a fiscally responsible nation (and it's not like the actual tax payers are any more responsible either).  Throwing more people into that equation, especially in larger numbers very, very quickly, and some parts of the country can't manage it at all.  So I think any meaningful immigration reform has to be also address tax reform and the overall level of benefits aligned to something...like maybe actual mathematics.

 

I personally am for the free movement of people to seek liberty and opportunity, provided it does not violate other people's rights.  And to a degree, when you move into a new cultural area you have to expect some changes either on your part or others, but mostly on yours.  After all, it would be a bit arrogant to move to China and expect them to change their culture and language for you.  At the same time to expect the culture not to change due to a large influx of new arrivals would be rather naive.  Most immigration policies are (or should be) concerned with culture, and more specifically to protect the native culture to the greatest extent possible.  Many countries also try to bring in skilled immigrants versus unskilled immigrants, because there's a desire to have immigration add beneficial gains rather than add non-beneficial gains (a.k.a, problems).  And notice the focus on culture rather than people.  An immigrant that embraces the new culture is generally going to be more successful than an immigrant that does not.  When you get a large number of new arrivals that cling to their old culture you no longer have immigration, instead you have colonialization.  You see this in areas with so-called "No Go" zones, which are essentially micro-nations of one particular cultural group.  Get enough of these and you get something more akin to Balkanization.  It's not good.

[Velvet Revolver]

its only illegal if you get caught

 

plus the government are stupid fucking idiots, plain and simple

[GBELILREESE]

Don't worry soon the WALL will be fully operational 

[Velvet Revolver]

1 hour ago, GBELILREESE said:

Don't worry soon the WALL will be fully operational 

The cocaine subs are a reality. Tunnels have been around for 25+ yrs.

[AshleyAshes]

1 hour ago, Velvet Revolver said:

The cocaine subs are a reality. Tunnels have been around for 25+ yrs.

How do you expect America to get anywhere with the consumption of drugs from other countries and sending money in the economy abroad.  American's are putting American drug suppliers out of business with those ethnic drugs!

 

Buy Domestic.

Buy American.

Buy Crystal Meth.

[Velvet Revolver]

Who cares, they sprinkle some extra fentanyl in their product and be done. Survival of the fittest. Its not an epidemic but thats what they are claiming. I laugh. The hospital wanted me to do some training in fentanyl caring, I laughed at them and said fuck no.

[Kobathor]

On 12/13/2016 at 4:32 PM, typographie said:

They are refugees that we just don't call refugees for some reason.

ref·u·gee

ˌrefyo͝oˈjē/

noun

a person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster.

 

Last I checked, people aren't running from Mexico because they're in the middle of a huge war. They're not refugees, they're illegal aliens, plain and simple. If the only reason your town survives is because of illegal aliens, I'd move.

 

I live in Texas. I don't have anything against Mexicans. They're hard workers, and many of them are family men. They move to this country to seek opportunity, so their kin and their kin's kin will prosper. Very noble. But, if they're getting here by jumping the fence, they're getting in the wrong way. We already get tons of immigrants legally, but so many more illegally.

 

I've got to agree with the person above me- nothing wrong with immigrants as long as they work, and they adopt our culture. I don't mind Mexican music or Mexican food, but they shouldn't be creating miniature Mexicos in Texas, rather broadening themselves and adopting American culture as they have their Hispanic culture.

[Velvet Revolver]

6 minutes ago, Kobathor said:

-

Anyone can claim refugee status. They just got to lie. If they are good liars, they have won the lottery, and they wont bother to learn our language or history.

 

Netherlands has very strict immigration policies. You have to advance your speach, written and history. Plus you have to have a skill that is of need. You get into trouble, you are gone.

 

Driving taxi, mopping floors, making sandwiches, flipping burgers, making beds are not skills of need.

[typographie]

10 hours ago, Kobathor said:

ref·u·gee

ˌrefyo͝oˈjē/

noun

a person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster.

 

Last I checked, people aren't running from Mexico because they're in the middle of a huge war. They're not refugees, they're illegal aliens, plain and simple. If the only reason your town survives is because of illegal aliens, I'd move.

 

I live in Texas. I don't have anything against Mexicans. They're hard workers, and many of them are family men. They move to this country to seek opportunity, so their kin and their kin's kin will prosper. Very noble. But, if they're getting here by jumping the fence, they're getting in the wrong way. We already get tons of immigrants legally, but so many more illegally.

 

I've got to agree with the person above me- nothing wrong with immigrants as long as they work, and they adopt our culture. I don't mind Mexican music or Mexican food, but they shouldn't be creating miniature Mexicos in Texas, rather broadening themselves and adopting American culture as they have their Hispanic culture.

It's not a declared war (although some presidential administrations would argue that the "drug war" is a declared war), but Mexico is a very dangerous place, and they are fleeing for many of the same reasons war refugees leave. I could probably make a good case for persecution as well. I'm not sure why you find that such a stretch.

 

I completely disagree about the importance of adopting "our culture," whatever that even means in a place so diverse as the U.S. Our culture reflects the makeup of our country, not the other way around. It takes generations for immigrant populations to assimilate, and in the meantime it is normal and repeated throughout history that they form cultural enclaves… but even so, the endgame is probably that "American culture" and "Mexican-American culture" become more similar, not that one vanishes in favor of the other.

[MrDynamicMan]

13 hours ago, GBELILREESE said:

Don't worry soon the WALL will be fully operational 

Ecks dee.

 

Hes not building a wall bro. 

[AshleyAshes]

American co-workers complaining about the temperature being '17 degrees'.  Why can't these yankee immigrants assimilate to Canadian temperature values!?

[PlayStation 2]

This thread is just filled with a lot of venom. Can't say I'm surprised.

[MrDynamicMan]

10 minutes ago, typographie said:

It's not a declared war (although some presidential administrations would argue that the "drug war" is a declared war), but Mexico is a very dangerous place, and they are fleeing for many of the same reasons war refugees leave. I could probably make a good case for persecution as well. I'm not sure why you find that such a stretch.

 

I completely disagree about the importance of adopting "our culture," whatever that even means in a place so diverse as the U.S. Our culture reflects the makeup of our country, not the other way around. It takes generations for immigrant populations to assimilate, and in the meantime it is normal and repeated throughout history that they form cultural enclaves… but even so, the endgame is probably that "American culture" and "Mexican-American culture" become more similar, not that one vanishes in favor of the other.

I agree with your first part, but they have to integrate. If you get large masses of people who are in a country where they're poor and treated badly they create their own communities and radicalism. Look at France if you don't believe me. However, that's not really an issue with illegals. They don't have very many ideological difference and most natural speak English. The rent aren't enough of them in a confined space to form isolated communities, and that's not happening in the US. The similarty of religion also helps as well. 

 

TL:DR immigrants are fleeing, but they're not "taking our jobs." illegal immigrants should not have access to welfare unless it's life and death (as in, easily treatable but fatal disease) and if they're here legally and paying taxes they have as much right to public welfare as anyone else. 

[typographie]

1 hour ago, MrDynamicMan said:

Look at France if you don't believe me.

I do believe that. My point was that healthy integration isn't the complete forfeiture of your culture to adopt another. The way it has usually worked in America is that immigrants bring their own culture, live within it for a generation or so, and it eventually blends with what is already here. That's why we can be so diverse and yet avoid many of the problems that France and Belgium experience.

 

As far as I'm aware, illegal immigrants do not have access to any form of welfare or social services. You need a social security number for that. I know that at least some of the illegal immigrants in my area are charged taxes from their pay by the farmers they work for, but cannot get social service benefits in return. The ones I know take a great deal of personal pride in the fact that they work, pay taxes, and are passionately opposed to the idea of receiving any kind of handout.

[Sauron]

On 12/13/2016 at 4:45 AM, Albatross said:

He said immigrant...not illegal immigrant.

And since it's needlessly hard to get a work permit in the US most of the time the immigrants who are desperate enough to take those jobs are illegal.

[Kobathor]

1 hour ago, typographie said:

but even so, the endgame is probably that "American culture" and "Mexican-American culture" become more similar, not that one vanishes in favor of the other.

 Maybe read my post. I never said one culture evaporates and becomes entirely American, but both coexist. The important part is that they learn American culture as well as their own. Also, they should learn English.. Totally left out that part. 

 

I don't believe that any immigrants should come over here and never learn American culture. I don't believe that it's their kid's job, like you think. If you move here, you assimilate, you don't ignore your surroundings. You should learn some English, learn some of our history, ect; things we teach our kids in public schools. You should be obligated to do these things, since after all, you are living here.

[RocketFarmer]

Immigrants who adopt the culture of the area they immigrate to are at greater social and economic advantage compared to those who do not. 

 

Culture includes the unwritten rules and values of how a specific community functions and operates, typically established over a period of time.  If you enter into a culture with rules or values that are contrary or incompatible with your own, then you will have problems.  Not all cultures are compatible.

 

Due to the time factor, shifting to a different culture can be challenging.  That's why wiser immigrants plan ahead by learning the language and customs of that culture before making the move.

 

The greatest thing about culture is that it is not prescribed by a managing authority, and instead evolves gradually over time based on the actions and behaviors of the people that make up that community. While you may have some authority try to drive the culture - say a government, slave owner, theocracy, dictator, etc. - it is ultimately the people who derive that culture.  So with every influx of immigrants, the culture of that community will change over time.  I also believe that if left to the people to decide without interference, that said culture will be better over time than the previous cultures of the individuals who immigrated or the pre-existing culture.  But it's not a melting pot.  People will choose, over time, the aspects of any given culture that offer them the greatest benefit and reject those aspects that do not.

 

Is it perfect?, no, but neither are the people responsible for it's development.

 

Oh, and wonderful cultures can be destroyed rather quickly with the "right" intevention from an authority with the power and will to do so.  Authorities are great at destruction, much like they are built for war.  People intuitively know this, and it's one of the main reasons most are resistant to change. I just wish some could see how giving power to an authority to protect a culture can end up degrading or even destroying the culture intended to be protected. 

 

I also believe that the internet has opened a gateway into a broader common culture shared by most people, and in time could replace the need for nation states, and definitely any need for global governance.  That said, there are plenty of people and would-be authorities that recognize this, and work to curtail this better interpersonal human understanding to protect their own power and interests.

 

To put it bluntly though.  If a person immigrates to a community where the culture is significantly incompatible, then there will be at a minimum rejection up to and including violence.  Example, if you practice a cultural belief that women can and should be raped with no repercussions, that belief has no place in most cultures, and will lead to big problems for you.  Some cultural taboos are such that even speaking of them will be received with a great deal of hostility.  That specific cultural belief will not be accepted.  No melting of that idea.  

[Albatross]

17 hours ago, Sauron said:

And since it's needlessly hard to get a work permit in the US most of the time the immigrants who are desperate enough to take those jobs are illegal.

So you're assuming most or a large majority of immigrants are illegal (which I disagree with) and so Trump hired them?

[MANIDY inc]

On 12/15/2016 at 6:43 PM, Velvet Revolver said:

The cocaine subs are a reality. Tunnels have been around for 25+ yrs.

walls can go underground too, we must tell trump that 

[Velvet Revolver]

The Mexicans have a great work ethic they will go deeper.

[Sauron]

3 hours ago, Albatross said:

So you're assuming most or a large majority of immigrants are illegal (which I disagree with) and so Trump hired them?

That's stuffing a lot in my mouth... I meant to say that legal immigrants often take better jobs than the ones trump is talking about. Whether he hires illegal immigrants or not is something I can't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere in his business there were illegal immigrants, hired with or without his knowledge.