State of 4k Media on PC

[GiltBrick]

PC's tend to come out with new technologies before other devices on the market. PC's supported 4k for years. That being said, I'm really disappointed in the state of 4k media on PC. For whatever reasons they have (usually copyright protection), Netflix doesn't support 4k streaming to PC's (until recently on Edge). Personally what I dislike more is that 4k Blu-Ray's are nowhere to be seen on PC's and seem like they're taking their time. Not only do they require a new type of Blu-Ray player because screw compatibility, I highly doubt that they have any plans to make them soon. The main source of 4k content seems to be YouTube and regardless of their massive compression I applaud Google for the support (now just 4k Netflix on Chrome). 4k TV's are affordable now, laptops and desktop monitors with 4k are constantly gaining market share, and there's been display support for years.

 

This is what happens when an entire industry is more focused on protecting their media and trying to squeeze every dollar out, and they forget that the best way to do that is to deliver content that people actually enjoy. Game of Thrones was one of the most popular torrents every but it still made so much money for HBO because it was a show people wanted to watch and so people bought the subscriptions. Now even if we buy the 4k blu-rays we can't watch them on the devices we want to, EVEN THOUGH WE BOUGHT THE BLU-RAY DRIVE.

 

Well that was my rant on 4k and how annoying it is, what are your thoughts? I guess I'll be on 1080p for a few more years now.

[lettuce head]

the 4k on youtube is actually pretty horrible too. and now the gtx 1070 and higher support 8k @ 30hz too. i think actual uncompressed 4k tv is a very far cry from where we are now, where the most you can get on cable is 1080p and its usually 1080i . the only people i know to use 4k Blu-ray has even made the comment that the disks are nowhere to be found and he has a NAS just for all of his 4k Blu-ray rips on 20some tb's of hard drive space. and the guy does his research and isn't made of money, so you know that wasn't his first choice.

[Oshino Shinobu]

I think we're kind of at a strange time for 4K media. A lot of PC content is moving away from discs entirely and we're not really there yet for 4K streaming (at least, not on a mass scale where everyone can easily stream 4K). Storage often isn't cheap enough to justify downloading and storing local, high-bitrate 4K content and services like Youtube have to use massive amounts of compression so they're not spending an absolute fortune ( or more of one) on storing huge 4K files. 

 

Right now, I feel like 4K is best used for productivity on the PC and as a cool experience for large TVs on the small amount of 4K content available. That said, for TVs I would only consider a 4K panel if it were OLED/QLED. Looking at O/QLED 4K next to regular LED/LCD, it makes a huge difference. 

[GiltBrick]

1 minute ago, lettuce head said:

the 4k on youtube is actually pretty horrible too. and now the gtx 1070 and higher support 8k @ 30hz too. i think actual uncompressed 4k tv is a very far cry from where we are now, where the most you can get on cable is 1080p and its usually 1080i . the only people i know to use 4k Blu-ray has even made the comment that the disks are nowhere to be found and he has a NAS just for all of his 4k Blu-ray rips on 20some tb's of hard drive space. and the guy does his research and isn't made of money, so you know that wasn't his first choice.

Yea, I mentioned that youtube is compressed like crazy but can't really blame them. I'm not talking about TV support for 4k, heck all channels haven't even moved to 1080. It's just sad that 4k blu-ray is in such a disarray right now. How does he rip his 4k blu-rays? I thought you needed a different blu-ray drive they don't make for pc's yet.

[lettuce head]

1 minute ago, GiltBrick said:

Yea, I mentioned that youtube is compressed like crazy but can't really blame them. I'm not talking about TV support for 4k, heck all channels haven't even moved to 1080. It's just sad that 4k blu-ray is in such a disarray right now. How does he rip his 4k blu-rays? I thought you needed a different blu-ray drive they don't make for pc's yet.

he uses some pay to use site, i never got the name of it since i use a 1440p monitor. downloads the files from there. with the lack of hard media, that's the only way i know of getting true uncompressed 4k media right now.

[Oshino Shinobu]

4 minutes ago, lettuce head said:

now the gtx 1070 and higher support 8k @ 30hz too

I believe they actually support 8K @60Hz when using DSC. 

[lettuce head]

Just now, Oshino Shinobu said:

I believe they actually support 8K @60Hz when using DSC. 

i may have breezed over that then. i just remember seeing 8k and laughing at how disgusting that number of pixels is.

[Valkyrie Lenneth]

as for now, i think 4k is just marketing , not enough content to properly use it ... including games... for 4k to run at its best u are also gonna need like 8k textures ect... which is not really out yet and if there are... its only minor... however for editors and workstations 4k can be a huge benefit... for gaming and media? id stick with 1080p for a while

 

anyways thats my thoughts

[Oshino Shinobu]

On anything of reasonably practical size for a monitor would be basically unusable without a load of scaling at 8K. I find 4K too much at 28", I can't even imagine the jump to 8K. Can only really see it being useful for very large screens. 

[Oshino Shinobu]

1 minute ago, Valkyrie Lenneth said:

as for now, i think 4k is just marketing , not enough content to properly use it ... including games... for 4k to run at its best u are also gonna need like 8k textures ect... which is not really out yet and if there are... its only minor... however for editors and workstations 4k can be a huge benefit... for gaming and media? id stick with 1080p for a while

 

anyways thats my thoughts

I agree with most, but I would stick with 1440p for games and most media and probably 21:9 for movies. 

[Valkyrie Lenneth]

1 minute ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

I agree with most, but I would stick with 1440p for games and most media and probably 21:9 for movies. 

i prefer fps over the 1440p in my case, x) all content i download is 1080p anyways hehe 

 

il be looking at 4k in maybe 5-6years

[GiltBrick]

3 minutes ago, Valkyrie Lenneth said:

as for now, i think 4k is just marketing , not enough content to properly use it ... including games... for 4k to run at its best u are also gonna need like 8k textures ect... which is not really out yet and if there are... its only minor... however for editors and workstations 4k can be a huge benefit... for gaming and media? id stick with 1080p for a while

 

anyways thats my thoughts

I'd have to disagree. You'd only need 4k textures max (at least the way i'm thinking about it). Regardless of that games in 4k right now are noticeably better than 1080p even with lower res textures. For media see below.

2 minutes ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

On anything of reasonably practical size for a monitor would be basically unusable without a load of scaling at 8K. I find 4K too much at 28", I can't even imagine the jump to 8K. Can only really see it being useful for very large screens. 

The main reason I'm disappointed is I like to hook up my PC to a TV where 4k actually matters for media.

 

As for content we have Amazon, Netflix, Youtube, and discs, the problem is I don't know if any of them other than Youtube and Netflix on Edge support 4k. It's not enough just to have these services but that's already a good amount of content IF they all supported PC's

[johnt]

Yup 4k is a joke at the moment. But frankly I can't tell who's to blame. The TV manufacturers ran away with 4k televisions. Big time content creators did not follow. Netflix is the largest content creator to really push for it in the source content. In addition to 4k, they also couldn't agree on a single design. Between LED, quantum dot tech, and OLEDs... they totally alienated the market. And then they threw in HDR... in two different formats. Some TVs support one but not the other... some support both HDR10 and Dolby Vision. But the market for $3,000+ televisions is slim compared to the $1,000 and under. Some people claim HDR is the new thing. Personally I think it's a poor implementation for addition details. The differences I've seen are negligible. In some cases it makes the image look flatter and unprofessional with low contrast. It's a joke in its current form. There's also the argument of physical media or severely compressed streaming. And then the cherry on top... an internet connection that can sustain 4k streaming while others continue to browse and stream on their own device.

 

Oh and my favorite part... while 4k is undeniably clearer than blu-ray. The problem is, more often than not, is that the source material people are using to judge whether 4k is a good option for them. The demos on the showroom floor and the specifications posted online are poor indicators of quality and useful technology. In my theater, I have a 110" screen that many of my guests have praised for its clarity. I'm running a mid tier consumer projector and a home made fixed frame screen with material I bought from Amazon. Uncompressed 1080p can very much still compete with 4k. The benefits aren't as *clear* as 480p vs 1080p.

 

Mainstream 4k adoption is easily 3 to 5 years out if not more. On PCs it might not ever be outside of small niche groups. I can't even list the number of cases that are coming out without support for a 5.25" optical drive. Heck the entire industry only has two disc players that are both MSRP $500 USD or more! Clearer images on PCs. Yeah. I can barely see sh!t on my 27 inch 1440p display. I don't need things to get smaller. 4k resolution is rather useless for monitors under 32". Resolution scaling (for interfaces) in Windows and gaming is inconsistent... and it's non-existent in older titles released before 2016. Which is like 99.8% of all games. Then what about 60 to 144 fps in gaming? SLI scaling is inconsistent, but $1,500 for two video cards is not a luxury most can afford.

 

The world is not as ready for 4k as much as the television manufacturers would have you think it is.

[GiltBrick]

1 hour ago, JohnT said:

Yup 4k is a joke at the moment. But frankly I can't tell who's to blame. The TV manufacturers ran away with 4k televisions. Big time content creators did not follow. Netflix is the largest content creator to really push for it in the source content. In addition to 4k, they also couldn't agree on a single design. Between LED, quantum dot tech, and OLEDs... they totally alienated the market. And then they threw in HDR... in two different formats. Some TVs support one but not the other... some support both HDR10 and Dolby Vision. But the market for $3,000+ televisions is slim compared to the $1,000 and under. Some people claim HDR is the new thing. Personally I think it's a poor implementation for addition details. The differences I've seen are negligible. In some cases it makes the image look flatter and unprofessional with low contrast. It's a joke in its current form. There's also the argument of physical media or severely compressed streaming. And then the cherry on top... an internet connection that can sustain 4k streaming while others continue to browse and stream on their own device.

 

The world is not as ready for 4k as much as the television manufacturers would have you think it is.

I disagree about the different panels. They've had that for years, LCD, LED (those are just backlights though), and Plasma. That's just about the different colors and is completely separate from 4k. HDR content on the other hand is a mess and is a bit related to 4k. A lot of people mention the internet required for 4k but for a lot of people I don't think that's an issue. Obviously it depends on the internet options available where you live but every major city/suburb supports 50mbps which is enough for 4k plus other things. The ridiculous thing is it's cheaper to get a new console than one of the 4k players.

[Cyborgsmith]

I'd be more interested in Hi bitrate streaming, then UHD screening. 

Thats why LTT FLoatplane videos @720p look as good or better then 1080p content on youtube.