Why are controller so incredibly expensive

[corrado33]

21 minutes ago, tlink said:

mate what are you on about? do you think a keyboard is just some switches on a pcb? a controller is way less parts to assemble than a keyboard. lots of keyboards have custom designed pcbs, thats why theres such a variety in them.

Have you ever taken apart a keyboard?

 

Obviously the answer is no. 

 

I very much suggest you google image search "keyboard disassembly."

 

And for the record, I would not be surprised if the vast majority of keyboards used the exact same chip to control communication with the computer. It's not a complicated process.

[tlink]

Just now, corrado33 said:

Have you ever taken apart a keyboard?

 

Obviously the answer is no. 

ad hominem. just get outa here with the hostility dude, if you can't be friendly then i don't need you shitting up my thread.

[corrado33]

Just now, tlink said:

ad hominem. just get outa here with the hostility dude, if you can't be friendly then i don't need you shitting up my thread.

Not at all. You said that keyboards are just as complicated as controllers. I'm pointing out to your that they are not. You're refusing the accept the obvious. 

[tlink]

Just now, corrado33 said:

Not at all. You said that keyboards are just as complicated as controllers. I'm pointing out to your that they are not. You're refusing the accept the obvious. 

never said that they are just as complicated. strawman.

[corrado33]

1 hour ago, tlink said:

cheap keyboards can do that easily, while having to use more materials and more mechanical components, your argument doesn't make any sense. and if you don't like my way of talking you can walk away, or report it bc im not going to change it.

 

43 minutes ago, tlink said:

never said that they are just as complicated. strawman.

I'm sorry, what were you getting at in your first post though? You said that cheap keyboards were able "to do that easily" which, I'm assuming is referring to my "can withstand thousands of hard button presses." 

 

So you then commented that they can do it "while having to use more materials and more mechanical components." 

 

I don't know, I think most people would take that as "more complicated." Did you mean something else? You should really be more clear in how you type your thoughts, because they don't come across very well. 

 

And while yes, keyboards DO have more components, buy number only. They really only have one main chip, and that's probably a purpose build "keyboard controller" chip. Something like this perhaps.

https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data Sheets/Atmel PDFs/AT43USB325 Rev05.pdf

 

Controllers, on the other hand, have to deal with analog to digital conversion on board, so are, in fact, much more complicated. 

 

Let me make it a bit more simple. 

 

A keyboard is literally 88ish digital switches.

 

A controller is a bunch of digital switches, with a bunch of analog inputs, which have to be converted to digital. Not to mention the joystick controller chips. Which is analog in 2 directions. 

 

A bit more simple.

 

An analog switch can be thought of as hundreds or thousands of digital switches very... very closely spaced, depending on the resolution of the ADC.

[Mira Yurizaki]

A first party game controller is expected to last the entirety of the system and cater to a wide range of abuse, one of which includes force feedback because vibrations are not a good thing. I've seen controllers at Game Stop and Best Buy at the demo kiosk that have seen better days, but you know what? They still work perfectly fine. You may want to sanitize your hands after using it, but they work fine.

 

If you don't like the price of first party controllers, there are cheaper alternatives. Just don't expect them to perform as well or last as long.

[TheBestUserName]

1 hour ago, tlink said:

yea i get the aditional costs for R&D and whatnot, but its not a niche market anymore so i would've expected it to be lower.

 

Well, cars have been manufactured for nearly 100 years, I'd expect designers and assembly to be more efficient.  But the price of cars keeps increasing.  Why? 

 

[tlink]

13 minutes ago, TheBestUserName said:

Well, cars have been manufactured for nearly 100 years, I'd expect designers and assembly to be more efficient.  But the price of cars keeps increasing.  Why? 

 

thats not comparable, there are way cheaper cars nowdays than there where then that are superior to the cars of then. while the controllers of nowdays are little superior, their price has also increased with no cheaper alternative for this generation. faulty comparison fallacy. 

[tlink]

1 hour ago, corrado33 said:

 

I'm sorry, what were you getting at in your first post though? You said that cheap keyboards were able "to do that easily" which, I'm assuming is referring to my "can withstand thousands of hard button presses." 

 

So you then commented that they can do it "while having to use more materials and more mechanical components." 

 

I don't know, I think most people would take that as "more complicated." Did you mean something else? You should really be more clear in how you type your thoughts, because they don't come across very well. 

 

And while yes, keyboards DO have more components, buy number only. They really only have one main chip, and that's probably a purpose build "keyboard controller" chip. Something like this perhaps.

https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data Sheets/Atmel PDFs/AT43USB325 Rev05.pdf

 

Controllers, on the other hand, have to deal with analog to digital conversion on board, so are, in fact, much more complicated. 

 

Let me make it a bit more simple. 

 

A keyboard is literally 88ish digital switches.

 

A controller is a bunch of digital switches, with a bunch of analog inputs, which have to be converted to digital. Not to mention the joystick controller chips. Which is analog in 2 directions. 

 

A bit more simple.

 

An analog switch can be thought of as hundreds or thousands of digital switches very... very closely spaced, depending on the resolution of the ADC.

and that was my exact point to your reply, that they had more components in numbers because that was the argument you made. 

 

Quote

A keyboard is building legos.

 

A controller is molding something out of melted plastic.

 

One is much harder to make than the other.

you essentially replied to your own argument, with

 

Quote

You should really be more clear in how you type your thoughts, because they don't come across very well. 

you made the argument that because a controller is molded out of plastic and a keyboard is plastic legos one is cheaper to build than the other, my reply to that was that every lego piece also has to be molded and there is a lot more to mold and a lot more materials involved.

 

some cheap keyboards also have pot resistors which also are digital signals for volume etc. a raspberry pi has wireless tech, bluetooth, usb controller, lan controller analog controller, gpio pins, for around the same price of the wired one and it uncludes a lot more hardware and has a way more niche market. by your logic the price for that should be higher too.

[TheBestUserName]

31 minutes ago, tlink said:

thats not comparable, there are way cheaper cars nowdays than there where then that are superior to the cars of then. while the controllers of nowdays are little superior, their price has also increased with no cheaper alternative for this generation. faulty comparison fallacy. 

Nope. It's a good comparison. I'm sorry you can't see it. 

 

This conversation is hopeless.  You seem to only be fishing for an answer that coincides with your own beliefs and theories. This is probably so that you can feel better about yourself. 

[TubsAlwaysWins]

4 hours ago, corrado33 said:

A: Calm down.

B: Stop swearing, it makes you sound stupid.

C: Controllers are expensive because the companies that make them want them to be expensive.

 

Also, building something that withstands many hundreds of thousands of hard button presses is no small feat. 

And being thrown against a TV lol

[Mira Yurizaki]

2 hours ago, tlink said:

thats not comparable, there are way cheaper cars nowdays than there where then that are superior to the cars of then. while the controllers of nowdays are little superior, their price has also increased with no cheaper alternative for this generation. faulty comparison fallacy. 

Controllers 25 some years ago didn't have analog joysticks, pressure sensitive buttons, reliable wireless capabilities, touch pads, motion control, force feedback, and audio streaming capabilities.

 

If you want to compare it from 10 years ago, cars back then weren't a whole lot less advanced than cars today.

[tlink]

16 hours ago, TheBestUserName said:

Nope. It's a good comparison. I'm sorry you can't see it. 

 

This conversation is hopeless.  You seem to only be fishing for an answer that coincides with your own beliefs and theories. This is probably so that you can feel better about yourself. 

why do you have to make it personal? why are people taking this topic so personal? you don't have to agree with me, you don't have to disagree with me, but you do have to create a friendly atmosphere and i don't see you doing that with the attitude you're showing.

[tlink]

15 hours ago, M.Yurizaki said:

Controllers 25 some years ago didn't have analog joysticks, pressure sensitive buttons, reliable wireless capabilities, touch pads, motion control, force feedback, and audio streaming capabilities.

 

If you want to compare it from 10 years ago, cars back then weren't a whole lot less advanced than cars today.

hmm yea that's kinda fair. but im not really talking 25 years ago more like n64 times . i guess i just didn't factor in most of those features because i never use them so i don't really feel like they are invested in but apparently they are. thanks for that! it probably is the few odd features like audio streaming and motion controll that drive up the price since they need to be converted and interpeted a lot more than a simple analog signal from pressure sensors etc.

[WkdPaul]

I'm going to have to ask everyone to take it back a notch, if you can't make you point across, trying to make it in an aggressive manner won't work either, and that could land you on the wrong side of a warning. 

 

Also please keep this part of the Community Standards in mind, always;

Quote

• Ensure a friendly atmosphere to our visitors and forum members.
• Encourage the freedom of expression and exchange of information in a mature and responsible manner.

 

[SteveGrabowski0]

On 11/9/2016 at 10:55 AM, UberGamerKing said:

Well cheap keyboard mouse combo's dont last as long.

 

You cant have it both ways dude

I have a $20 Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse combo I used from 2009-2015. I still use the keyboard, it's great, but I finally had to replace the mouse last year because the middle button stopped working.

[KenjiUmino]

well, you get what you pay for.

 

you CAN get cheap controllers - even for consoles - but they straight up SUCK - trust me on that one, i had too many of them.

 

i am using a cheapo wired USB controller on my PS 3 at the moment but even the relatively "inexpensive" logitech F310 mentioned earlier is running circles around it - the cheapo does ok for slow games but even playing wipeout with it is a chore let alone any game where accuracy actually matters.

 

thats the thing most cheap input devices fail to deliver: accuracy/precision

 

cheap is just not good enough for serious gaming - sure, one can get a 20 bucks keyboard from a reputable brand and it will do fine for most of the tasks thrown at it but it will be compromised in one way or another (like only 5 keys can be pressed at once and stuff like that) - to some people this will never be an issue but to others it will absolutely ruin it depending on what and how they play - and the same goes for controllers.

 

when you need a controller, look at the price of the cheapest standard 1st party controller for your system as a baseline and only go up in price if extra features are needed.

 

anything below that will probably not give you a good experience. anything above it might just be for the sake of it and not give you much of an advantage (do i really need that shiny purple camoflage special edition controller ?) - unless you really want some specific features a more expensive controller offers (remappable buttons for example)

 

as a side note: quality gamepads have NEVER been cheap - no matter how advanced or primitive the technology at that time was - it's not like they have been "giving away" NES or SNES gamepads back in the day - even though they are considered "primitive" by todays standards.

 

my first logitech gamepad for PC? don't remember how much exactly i paid but i remember it was somewhat of a bitter pill to swallow, but boy was it worth the money.

i would still be rocking it today if DB15 gameport would still be a thing (or if i still had the USB adapter)