Euclideons Graphics? VR this time? Dam liars agen?

[Bhav]

1 minute ago, zMeul said:

what has X to do with Y

no matter how gad NMS is, the rendering tech behind it uses voxels - yes, voxels (pixels)

 

and doesn't have anything to do with Euclideon - it's a similar tech that uses, you guessed it, voxels

 

16 minutes ago, Bhav said:

No mans sky does it via open GL 4.5 and a compatible GPU, with a minimum spec of a GTX 480.

 

Euclideon claim to do what they say 100% without a GPU and fully software rendered off any HDD.

 

Care to explain how this is possible?

 

This was also already explained in a previous reply to you.

Erm...

[DXMember]

On ‎2016‎.‎09‎.‎13‎. at 4:35 AM, Bhav said:

Or are you telling me that the demo downloads 'terrabytes of information' to run in real time off your HDD?

ever heard of indexing stuff

Euclideon has been going on for ages telling people to compare their render engine with a google search engine

it searches only for necessary to display pixels, doesn't work with textures, doesn't work with alpha blending and stuff

[Bhav]

30 minutes ago, DXMember said:

ever heard of indexing stuff

Euclideon has been going on for ages telling people to compare their render engine with a google search engine

it searches only for necessary to display pixels, doesn't work with textures, doesn't work with alpha blending and stuff

Ever tried playing video games using shared memory instead of Vram?

 

Oh sure, a HDD is totally fast enough to smoothly display unlimited detail at 144 FPS.

[DXMember]

1 minute ago, Bhav said:

Ever tried playing video games using shared memory instead of Vram?

 

Oh sure, a HDD is totally fast enough to smoothly display unlimited detail at 144 FPS.

when it has to display a 2meg worth of image, yeah, it's plenty

[Bhav]

1 minute ago, DXMember said:

when it has to display a 2meg worth of image, yeah, it's plenty

Thats for a still image. What about when moving the camera around? What about with lighting and animation on top? What about physics? Weather cycles? Particle effects? Simulating thousands of moving characters?

 

All that from just the speed of a hard drive?

[DXMember]

3 minutes ago, Bhav said:

Thats for a still image. What about when moving the camera around? What about with lighting and animation on top? What about physics? Weather cycles? Particle effects? Simulating thousands of moving characters?

 

All that from just the speed of a hard drive?

are we talking about the same thing?

I'm referring to your quote from Geoverse description

 

But since you mentioned it....

I'm no programmer, but how exactly do you imagine storing physics and animation on a hard drive?

[Bhav]

Just now, DXMember said:

are we talking about the same thing?

I'm referring to your quote from Geoverse description

 

But since you mentioned it....

I'm no programmer, but how exactly do you imagine storing physics and animation on a hard drive?

I dont?

 

Hence why I am claiming that what Euclideon are promising is BS.

[DXMember]

1 minute ago, Bhav said:

I dont?

 

Hence why I am claiming that what Euclideon are promising is BS.

did they promise you to stream physics and animation from hard drive?

[Bhav]

1 minute ago, DXMember said:

did they promise you to stream physics and animation from hard drive?

They promised their entire annlimited point claude daughter stuff could run in software off a HDD or USB disk in all of rheir videos on this technology and on thwir website.

[DXMember]

2 minutes ago, Bhav said:

They promised their entire annlimited point claude daughter stuff could run in software off a HDD or USB disk in all of rheir videos on this technology and on thwir website.

doesn't mean they don't use RAM

as a matter of fact CPU can't even work with data that's not in memory

[Veltrace]

On 14/9/2016 at 4:34 PM, DXMember said:

ever heard of indexing stuff

Euclideon has been going on for ages telling people to compare their render engine with a google search engine

it searches only for necessary to display pixels, doesn't work with textures, doesn't work with alpha blending and stuff

Every 3D engine does that; those that work with polygons only draw them if they are inside the field of view, ignoring those the ones outside the camera, they also ignore polygons behind other polygons. Same with voxel engines.

[BrightCandle]

Their claims aren't beyond possibility. There is no good reason why we can't have a better system for finding what colour to render than casting a ray out to see what it intersects with first. When John Carmack first came up with binary space partioning combined with pre rendered maps the end result was a dramatic increase in visual fidelity. He worked out a way to enormously reduce the search space and combine it with substantially better lighting than computers of the day could do.

 

So could Euclideon make a better search algorithm for point clouds? Sure that is absolutely possible especially when you consider that voxel engines are a lot less explored in research. One of the reasons the engine is taking a lot of time to potentially hit mass market is they have a lot of issues to resolve to compete in the gaming market. They needed animation and that is really hard to do in voxels, they need anti aliasing and good lighting/shadows and all of this is having to be reinvented for the voxel world to run efficiently. Since the current research says these are more expensive its also combined with the possibility that whatever they are doing in regards to improving search is also going to make those things harder to deal with. Its not too hard to make a much more efficient search if things aren't going to move and change, so you can preprocess it a lot. But if it has moving entities in it then the search becomes more complicated as its different every frame.

 

Their technology isn't unbelieveable, its just very early still and they are going to be stuck with all the disadvantages of voxels that we already know about. The worst being the enormous drive space requirements, there is a reason they talk about hard drive streaming in their interview with pcper because a game world like we are used to would take hundreds of GBs.

[LogicalDrm]

51 minutes ago, BrightCandle said:

Their claims aren't beyond possibility. There is no good reason why we can't have a better system for finding what colour to render than casting a ray out to see what it intersects with first. When John Carmack first came up with binary space partioning combined with pre rendered maps the end result was a dramatic increase in visual fidelity. He worked out a way to enormously reduce the search space and combine it with substantially better lighting than computers of the day could do.

 

So could Euclideon make a better search algorithm for point clouds? Sure that is absolutely possible especially when you consider that voxel engines are a lot less explored in research. One of the reasons the engine is taking a lot of time to potentially hit mass market is they have a lot of issues to resolve to compete in the gaming market. They needed animation and that is really hard to do in voxels, they need anti aliasing and good lighting/shadows and all of this is having to be reinvented for the voxel world to run efficiently. Since the current research says these are more expensive its also combined with the possibility that whatever they are doing in regards to improving search is also going to make those things harder to deal with. Its not too hard to make a much more efficient search if things aren't going to move and change, so you can preprocess it a lot. But if it has moving entities in it then the search becomes more complicated as its different every frame.

 

Their technology isn't unbelieveable, its just very early still and they are going to be stuck with all the disadvantages of voxels that we already know about. The worst being the enormous drive space requirements, there is a reason they talk about hard drive streaming in their interview with pcper because a game world like we are used to would take hundreds of GBs.

I'm not one to say its impossible. Just bit far away to be hyped for. I mean sure they are already making it work for geospatial use (static point cloud rendering) and for augmented reality services (multiple projectors). The issue is these threads which are intended to build up hype for consumer and gamer solutions. Hype isn't a thing when you don't have anything to back up claims.

[DXMember]

4 hours ago, Veltrace said:

Every 3D engine does that; those that work with polygons only draw them if they are inside the field of view, ignoring those the ones outside the camera, they also ignore polygons behind other polygons. Same with voxel engines.

ha ha ha hah,

tell that to Crytek,

Crysis 2, #oceangate

[Veltrace]

20 hours ago, DXMember said:

ha ha ha hah,

tell that to Crytek,

Crysis 2, #oceangate

What do you mean? Im sure that if you look to the floor the fps increase.

[Veltrace]

20 hours ago, DXMember said:

ha ha ha hah,

tell that to Crytek,

Crysis 2, #oceangate

What do you mean? Im sure that if you look to the floor the fps increase.

[DXMember]

5 hours ago, Veltrace said:

What do you mean? Im sure that if you look to the floor the fps increase.

h ahahahahha ah

you're completely oblivious, right?

there's a fucking ocean under the floor that is still being rendered and tesselated x64

 

normally in 3D space you render everything, the game engine though is responsible for omitting unnecessary or redundant load on the machine and increase the graphical fidelity by doing the minimal work with maximum result

Euclideons game engine is god damn good if it can do what they claim it can do, and so far, judging by their demos, interviews and related products, it looks like it can

[Veltrace]

On 17/9/2016 at 4:13 AM, DXMember said:

h ahahahahha ah

you're completely oblivious, right?

there's a fucking ocean under the floor that is still being rendered and tesselated x64

 

normally in 3D space you render everything, the game engine though is responsible for omitting unnecessary or redundant load on the machine and increase the graphical fidelity by doing the minimal work with maximum result

Euclideons game engine is god damn good if it can do what they claim it can do, and so far, judging by their demos, interviews and related products, it looks like it can

One thing is that Crytek couldn't figure a way to divide the ocean in sectors to only draw the visible parts (maybe they just used one big rectangle -two triangles- with a texture for the water), but they still do that "Google search" for the rest of the geometry. You said the exact thing I said. But I don't think the Euclideon engine is legit, Euclideon said they use it in their holoverse but the models in those games are a joke, and one would assume they use hi end computers for the games but apparently they don't.

[DXMember]

15 hours ago, Veltrace said:

One thing is that Crytek couldn't figure a way to divide the ocean in sectors to only draw the visible parts (maybe they just used one big rectangle -two triangles- with a texture for the water), but they still do that "Google search" for the rest of the geometry. You said the exact thing I said. But I don't think the Euclideon engine is legit, Euclideon said they use it in their holoverse but the models in those games are a joke, and one would assume they use hi end computers for the games but apparently they don't.

Nah, man - look up Crysis 2 wireframes - they render EVERYTHING and tesselate EVERYTHING

yes the game models don't look very modern, but they are very shapey and have a lot of geometry, if they actually use what they call "atoms" then it's fucking insane

just get a 3DS Max or something trail version and try to create a very detailed model of something, look at how that thing performs, if not for games then the tech can most certainly be used to accelerate those kind of workloads, also in medicine where they have scans in unheard of resolutions that take inadequate amounts of time and computation to work with