6600k Waste of money?

[Captain Cruz]

I was researching buying a new build and the 6600k came up as the most recommended chip for gaming. But its £210 in the UK.

To overclock this chip you need z170 MB (around £130) + cpu cooler (£30-£100) = £370 - £440

Why not just buy an i7 6700k (£290) and a non overclocking board with all the same features (£90) and cheap cooler (£10) = £400.

I looked at digital foudary's video on the i7 vs i5 (skylake)

and the non OC'ed i7 outperforms the i7 6600k overclocked to 4.6Mhz, and obviously an i7 is better at almost everything else

Whos with me?

[Morgan MLGman]

Why buy the 6700K with a cheap board that cannot overclock? K version doesn't come with the stock cooler either. It's better to buy a 6700 non-k, a cheap board (B150/H110/H170) and stick with the stock cooler for maximum cost-efficiency.

[dragoon20005]

the i7 has hypertreading which simulate the CPU to have 8 virtual treads instead of 4 treads on the 6600K

 

on games which are CPU bound, you see a performance gap

 

but most of the time the 6600K isnt far off from the 6700K

 

those who buy the 6700K will always pair it with the Z170 board for overclocking

 

 

nobody will in the right mind pair the 6700K with a H170 or cheaper mobo

 

 

 

unless you are using the i7 6700 which is a locked CPU

 

[Captain Cruz]

Why not buy an i7 6700k and locked MB? I'm looking an an ASUS itx Mb which is exactly the same as its z170 counterpart but £45 cheaper.

 

Also the i7 6700k doesnt need an OC, it ships at 4.2ghz boostclock 4.0Ghz base, much higher than the 6600k. 

 

Also you dont need a powerful cooler or even have to bother to OC (/risk getting a weak chip) and its basically the same price

 

On 9/8/2016 at 4:48 AM, Morgan MLGman said:

Why buy the 6700K with a cheap board that cannot overclock? K version doesn't come with the stock cooler either. It's better to buy a 6700 non-k, a cheap board (B150/H110/H170) and stick with the stock cooler for maximum cost-efficiency.

The 6700k ships at a much higher base clock than a 6700. 3.4 vs 4.2

[Morgan MLGman]

Just now, Captain Cruz said:

The 6700k ships at a much higher base clock than a 6700. 3.4 vs 4.2

Turbo clock is what matters, not base clock. 6700 turbo's to 4.0 GHz, 6700K to 4.2 GHz.

[dragoon20005]

2 minutes ago, Captain Cruz said:

Why not buy an i7 6700k and locked MB? I'm looking an an ASUS itx Mb which is exactly the same as its z170 counterpart but £45 cheaper.

 

Also the i7 6700k doesnt need an OC, it ships at 4.2ghz boostclock 4.0Ghz base, much higher than the 6600k. 

 

Also you dont need a powerful cooler or even have to bother to OC (/risk getting a weak chip) and its basically the same price

the K version of the 6700 is meant for OC

 

if you check the prices of the 6700 vs the 6700K

 

you are paying more for the OC ability

[Captain Cruz]

10 minutes ago, dragoon20005 said:

the K version of the 6700 is meant for OC

 

if you check the prices of the 6700 vs the 6700K

 

you are paying more for the OC ability

Im aware of this, what im saying is that the 6700 isnt great for gaming, but the 6700k even no OC is good for gaming (almost identical to an OC'ed one because of its high boost clock).

I think an overclocked 6700k is better (and cheaper) than an OC'ed 6600k)

 

[| Rembo |]

6700 non k is perfectly fine for gaming

[dragoon20005]

Just now, Captain Cruz said:

Im aware of this, what im saying is that the 6700 isnt great for gaming, but the 6700k even no OC is good for gaming (almost identical to an OC'ed one because of its high boost clock).

I think an overclocked 6700k is better (and cheaper) than an OC'ed 6600k)

 

huh?  where do you even get that idea???

 

you are gonna waste more money buying a OC CPU but capping it with a non-OC mobo

 

the 6700 is still a monster CPU

 

just that you cant OC doesnt mean it sucks.

 

the 6700 will still destroy the 6600K in application which need all the CPU power and treads

[| Rembo |]

4 minutes ago, Captain Cruz said:

I think an overclocked 6700k is better (and cheaper) than an OC'ed 6600k)

 

How can an OC'ed 6700k be cheaper than an OC'ed 6600k?

[dragoon20005]

2 minutes ago, | Rembo | said:

How can an OC'ed 6700k be cheaper than an OC'ed 6600k?

i am scratching my head as well...

[Captain Cruz]

6 minutes ago, | Rembo | said:

How can an OC'ed 6700k be cheaper than an OC'ed 6600k?

Sorry typo.  

****I think a non overclocked 6700k (paired with B150 MB and a cheap cooler), is better (and potentially cheaper) than an OC'ed 6600k

[KaareKanin]

But the point being, as you brought up the waste of money point of view, 6700K non OC and non Z-MoBo will be a waste of money over a plain 6700

[Captain Cruz]

2 minutes ago, KaareKanin said:

But the point being, as you brought up the waste of money point of view, 6700K non OC and non Z-MoBo will be a waste of money over a plain 6700

Non OC 6600k compared to an OC'ed 6600k = huge leap in performance
Non OC 6700k compared to an OC'ed 6700k = small change in performance

[| Rembo |]

8 minutes ago, Captain Cruz said:

Sorry typo.  

****I think a non overclocked 6700k (paired with B150 MB and a cheap cooler), is better (and potentially cheaper) than an OC'ed 6600k

1 minute ago, KaareKanin said:

But the point being, as you brought up the waste of money point of view, 6700K non OC and non Z-MoBo will be a waste of money over a plain 6700

i completely agree if you're not going to overclock the 6700k just go for the 6700 non k because you're paying a premium for overclocking capabilities but you cant overclock due to your mobo.

 

 

[dragoon20005]

2 minutes ago, Captain Cruz said:

Non OC 6600k compared to an OC'ed 6600k = huge leap in performance
Non OC 6700k compared to an OC'ed 6700k = small change in performance

mate you are wasting 40 pounds buying the K version of the 6700

 

that 40 pounds could be spent on a nicer GPU

 

or some fancy RAM kits

 

 

 

like i said many times

 

the i7 6700 will murder the 6600K in CPU intensive stuffs

 

 

 

[KaareKanin]

3 minutes ago, Captain Cruz said:

Non OC 6600k compared to an OC'ed 6600k = huge leap in performance
Non OC 6700k compared to an OC'ed 6700k = small change in performance

To put it like this...

 

Your initial post has a point, you'll save money with the i7 option you layed out over the i5 option you layed out. 

 

If you want advice, however, go with the 6700, not 6700k, as it'll save you more money (and not be a waste of a good K-part)

[Captain Cruz]

1 minute ago, KaareKanin said:

To put it like this...

 

Your initial post has a point, you'll save money with the i7 option you layed out over the i5 option you layed out. 

 

If you want advice, however, go with the 6700, not 6700k, as it'll save you more money (and not be a waste of a good K-part)

I totally get where youre coming form, but in the video I watched (Digital foundry) the 6700 trailed behind the 6700k non OC and the 6600k OC.

I think the reason its good vaule is because its a weird not intended combo

[KaareKanin]

1 hour ago, Captain Cruz said:

I totally get where youre coming form, but in the video I watched (Digital foundry) the 6700 trailed behind the 6700k non OC and the 6600k OC.

I think the reason its good vaule is because its a weird not intended combo

6700K has a 200MHz advantage over plain 6700 at max turbo (non OC). 6600K has recorded speeds at 5GHz OC, at whch point you'll kick i7 non OC ass in everything that doesn't need more than 4 threads. 

 

Then the question then becomes: What do you indend on doing with your build? Does the 200MHz warrant the extra price for the K part? What about fan (which does not come with the K-part)? 

[Space Reptile]

2 hours ago, Captain Cruz said:

6700 isnt great for gaming, but the 6700k even no OC is good for gaming

 

no seriously , even a 6600 is good for games , dont buy an" K " chip if you dont buy a Z170 board / dont overclock , its a waste of money 

 

2 hours ago, Morgan MLGman said:

 

Why buy the 6700K with a cheap board that cannot overclock? K version doesn't come with the stock cooler either. It's better to buy a 6700 non-k, a cheap board (B150/H110/H170) and stick with the stock cooler for maximum cost-efficiency.

 

^^^ what he said ^^^  

 

save yourself some heat issues (91w on k , 70 on non k , correct me if im wrong ) and stick to the cheaper version , you get maybe 1 or 2 fps more from an 67k vs a 67 if you dont oc at all 

[Captain Cruz]

52 minutes ago, KaareKanin said:

6700K has a 200MHz advantage over plain 6700 at max turbo (non OC). 6600K has recorded speeds at 5GHz OC, at whch point you'll kick i7 non OC ass in everything that doesn't need more than 4 threads. 

 

Then the question then becomes: What do you indend on doing with your build? Does the 200MHz warrant the extra price for the K part? What about fan (which does not come with the K-part)? 

 

8 minutes ago, Space Reptile said:

 

no seriously , even a 6600 is good for games , dont buy an" K " chip if you dont buy a Z170 board / dont overclock , its a waste of money 

 

^^^ what he said ^^^  

 

save yourself some heat issues (91w on k , 70 on non k , correct me if im wrong ) and stick to the cheaper version , you get maybe 1 or 2 fps more from an 67k vs a 67 if you dont oc at all 

Both good points. I think ill go for the 6700 then

[Shreyas1996]

Go for a 6700 rather than 6600k and spend the saved money from Mobo and cooler on better GPU

[MageTank]

4 hours ago, Captain Cruz said:

The 6700k ships at a much higher base clock than a 6700. 3.4 vs 4.2

You are completely neglecting the boost tables.

 

The 6700 (non-K) has the following boost table:

1 core: 4000mhz

2 cores: 3900mhz

3 cores: 3800mhz

4 cores: 3700mhz

 

The 6700k has the following boost table:

1 core: 4200mhz

2 cores or more: 4000mhz

 

As you can see, the moment more than one core is utilized, the boost table on the 6700k is designed to force all of the cores to run at 4ghz. Now, certain motherboards do have features to allow you to run the boost speeds on all cores, but I do not know if they are present on H/B platforms. It is typically labeled "Multi Core Enhancement" and is defined as such on ASRock boards: "Improve the system's performance by forcing the CPU to perform the highest frequency on all CPU cores simultaneously. Disable to reduce power consumption ."

 

Other board manufacturers might call it something different, but I am certain you can probably figure out what it's called just by reading it. This "Advanced Turbo Feature" is only compatible with K CPU's, according to the ASRock manual. Checking their online manual for their H series boards, I do not see the Advanced Turbo category, or the "Multi Core Enhancement" option, leading me to believe its a Z specific feature. 

[Captain Cruz]

1 hour ago, MageTank said:

You are completely neglecting the boost tables.

 

The 6700 (non-K) has the following boost table:

1 core: 4000mhz

2 cores: 3900mhz

3 cores: 3800mhz

4 cores: 3700mhz

 

The 6700k has the following boost table:

1 core: 4200mhz

2 cores or more: 4000mhz

 

As you can see, the moment more than one core is utilized, the boost table on the 6700k is designed to force all of the cores to run at 4ghz. Now, certain motherboards do have features to allow you to run the boost speeds on all cores, but I do not know if they are present on H/B platforms. It is typically labeled "Multi Core Enhancement" and is defined as such on ASRock boards: "Improve the system's performance by forcing the CPU to perform the highest frequency on all CPU cores simultaneously. Disable to reduce power consumption ."

 

Other board manufacturers might call it something different, but I am certain you can probably figure out what it's called just by reading it. This "Advanced Turbo Feature" is only compatible with K CPU's, according to the ASRock manual. Checking their online manual for their H series boards, I do not see the Advanced Turbo category, or the "Multi Core Enhancement" option, leading me to believe its a Z specific feature. 

Thanks that response was very useful

Another question, does the 6700k run at e.g 4.6ghz on all cores four cores when overclocked?

Also, would you recomend the 6700 over the 6600k?

[MageTank]

Just now, Captain Cruz said:

Thanks that response was very useful

Another question, does the 6700k run at e.g 4.6ghz on all cores four cores when overclocked?

Also, would you recomend the 6700 over the 6600k?

If you overclock it to 4.6ghz, yes, all 4 cores will run at 4.6ghz. As for my recommendation of the 6700 over the 6600k, that depends entirely on whether or not you are going to invest in an overclocking platform + aftermarket cooler. The 6600k does not come with a cooler. There has been an ongoing fallacy that overclocking a CPU by X%, will give you X% more FPS. This is simply not true. A 10% overclock on a CPU, might give you 5% increased FPS, or it might not even make a difference at all. It depends entirely on the task at hand. Certain titles scale well with higher clocked CPU's, while others simply do not care. It will all depend on whether or not the CPU is the bottleneck in a certain program, or part of a game. The biggest difference that overclocked CPU's make, is on minimum framerates. Situations where your CPU becomes the bottleneck for a specific area, and faster CPU and memory clock speeds make the difference here. 

 

The biggest difference between the 6700 and 6600k, is Hyperthreading. Certain titles can see a 10-15% difference in minimum FPS when hyperthreading is involved. However, with hyperthreading costing an additional 50 euros ($56) on the two SKU's you mentioned, you have to ask yourself this question. Is 10-15% additional FPS in very select titles, worth 20% higher cost? Now, Hyperthreading has more use outside of gaming. If gaming is not your only focus, hyperthreading can seriously aid with multitasking. If you like to stream, or do other things while gaming, the performance difference between the 6700 and 6600k will start to widen. 

 

However, there is also one other thing the 6600k can do, that the 6700 can't (at least, not without using older BIOS revisions and non-K overclocking, which is a headache for another day), and that is overclocking. Most 6600k's can hit around 4.5ghz. That is 800mhz higher than the 6700's all core boost of 3700 (or 500mhz higher than the all core boost of 4000mhz, if you have a Z series board with Multi-core Enhancement). That will surely be more important from a gaming standpoint, than Hyperthreading.

 

So, how do you decide which CPU to get? Let's simplify it.

 

#1. Make a budget, and see what CPU, Mobo, Cooler and Memory you can get within that budget. Do not think about "buying the cheapest". Just name a solid budget you are willing to spend, and buy the best possible hardware within that budget.

#2. Pick the right tool for the job. What do you plan on doing? Gaming? Business? Perhaps you do a mixture of both, sometimes at the same time? 

#3. Overclocking. Are you willing to overclock? Or do you want to avoid doing so? 

 

These are important questions that you have to ask yourself in order to determine which processor is for you. We can't just tell you "X is better because X" simply because there is no clear winner for everything. Some people are looking for price:performance. Others for power efficiency. Some just want the best of the best, while others want something that will do what they need it to, without the added effort and troubleshooting that comes with overclocking.

 

If you don't want to overclock at all, investing in a 6700 + locked platform might be the better option. HOWEVER. If you do want to overclock, the Z platform offers a much better upgrade path. Faster memory has been proven to aid with minimum framerates in situations with high CPU overhead, and it allows you to get more performance out of both CPU and memory. Not to mention Z platforms tend to come with PCIE M.2,  Crossfire and SLI support depending on the board, something you might be interested in the future. Strictly speaking for gaming, the 6600k is a perfectly capable chip, and will most definitely get the job done in all current titles that you throw at it. If a title NEEDS hyperthreading on a quad core to run good, then it was poorly programmed in the first place. After all, Hyperthreading only exists because we live in an imperfect world. It's not magic.