Help me help my church

[HappiDada]

Hello everyone!

I have recently been drafted by my church to help them with entering the 21st century. As I have previous experience streaming and with audio equipment they have asked me to help them setup a live/recorded stream for them.

So far they have not put any budget in place though I can expect that they will want to do it in the most inexpensive way possible, therefore I was hoping to reach out and get a hand with some of my ideas.

 

At this point I am expecting the following:

3 camera setup (1 center manned and 2 unmanned mounted off stage)

input from their 64 channel mixer (via USB)

6 video outputs (3 projectors on stage, 1 projector off stage, 1 live preview screen, 1 "editor screen" for managing content on all others)

1 H.264 encoder card connected to live preview screen for dedicated hardware encoding (like elgato pcie H.264 encoder)

 

I am hoping someone might help me come up with some help with the camera setup and to tell me if I'm completely insane for this setup. The help I really need is with the 2 offstage cameras (mounted stage left and right) that I would really like to have as PTZ cameras, therefore the operator running the stream would be able to change angles on the pastor, band, crowd, or whatever they would like to to. Although I have see these devices in the past the only thing I can find lately is basically webcams with a motor. 

If anyone has any ideas or clues please let me know as I would really like to help them in any way that I can while still attempting to hold budget as a consideration.

 

Thank you all in advance;

HappiDada

[HappiDada]

I guess I should mention about the "recording" part... the plan is to be running a software like OBS recording the entire setup and giving a live preview to the elgato card although I would be using the elgato for streaming instead of burdening the CPU/GPU with this task. This will allow me to save $300+ (US) on hardware there...

[Joshosaurus]

If your wanting to do live switching then have a look at the Blackmagic ATEM Television Studio.

 

Edit: Forgot to mention it has an in built h264 encoder via usb 2 cable.

[d3sl91]

Alot can change based on budget. 

 

Least expensive is a camcorder connected to a laptop, a few hundred dollars. what you have listed above is in the multiple thousands. So I would recommend really going over with them what their expectations are and give them examples of barebones setups up to higher-end multi camera setups, with the pros and cons of each. 

 

[HappiDada]

@JJHW149

Althouth I really apperciate this suggestion, this looks like it would be a very expensive while still having the problem of requiring the two side cameras that I did not see available here. 
I do see a quite nice setup from Blackmagic although I am also not familiar with the software also I am assuming it would be a recurring licensing fee.

 

Thank you for your suggestion though!!!

[HappiDada]

@d3sl91

I completely agree about budget vs expectation. When origionally speaking to them, the setup above is what we talked about and described... Now although they have not given me a solid figure they are understanding it may be costly. With this in mind I personally believe it should be possible (especially because we already have the 1 "manned" camera (blackmagic 4k camera)) to do the rest for ~$4000-$5000. This would include 2 ptz cameras, computer, and software (theoretically OBS is free which is why I preferred to use this... also I have experience with it lol)

 

Thank you for your reply!

[Evanair]

Ignoring your budget, because you're asking a lot for not much money.  For the setup you want, I'd ask for 20k for the setup from your church.  It could be done for 10-15, but starting with asking for 20 could land you underbudget.

 

Here's a one stop shop for Livestream without the fuss.  https://livestream.com/studio/hd550

[HappiDada]

@Evanair

Thank you for your response unfortunately that is neither in my budget nor does it fit the camera requirement.

 

I believe I know how I want how to setup the software and stream the largest problem I have is the PTZ cameras. From my previous experience I know I can build a computer that is capiable of everything I want it to do for just over $1200 USD, this includes 1x 3 output GPUs, i5 proc with video, elgato for streaming, ~4tb drive for local recording, USB 3.0 for input from blackmagic camera (owned), add on sound card for input from 68 channel board (owned). 
The largest issue I have is attempting to get 1-2 PTZ cameras that I can feed into the pc for ~$3800 or less.

 

Thanks again!

Happi

[zdog16]

Blackmagic ATEM is defiantly the best way to do it but you can get pretty good performance out of a Newtek Tricaster also which can be much cheaper. My church had both at one point(ATEM in the sanctuary and Tricaster out at the school's football field) but we just upgraded the Tricaster to another ATEM. You can use a variety of cameras, but if you go with the ATEM you will have to spend more on cameras since it's mostly an SDI switcher whereas you can get Tricasters for HDMI and Component. 

 

The PTZs you mentioned are around, check out B&H's stuff https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/ptz-cameras/ci/25266/N/3769429766

 

But if you want to do 3 cameras live mixed then you have to be willing to spend quite a bit of money. This stuff's not cheap.

 

PM me if you want more details about my church and our setup and I'll be happy to help in any way I can.

[HappiDada]

@zdog16

Thank you very much, this is just about exactly what I was looking for, the only ones I could find prior to your suggestion was a 10x zoom at 720p. 
The PTZOptics camera looks like a very good option and with use of SDI video and an dual HD capture card (about 300$) I should be able to use two of these cameras in combo with the blackmagic to handle all the video. As for the mixing, the use of OBS Studio in preview mode should work perfectly... It should have no problem with multiple inputs.

Thank you very much!!!

[Dredgy]

14 hours ago, HappiDada said:

@Evanair

Thank you for your response unfortunately that is neither in my budget nor does it fit the camera requirement.

 

I believe I know how I want how to setup the software and stream the largest problem I have is the PTZ cameras. From my previous experience I know I can build a computer that is capiable of everything I want it to do for just over $1200 USD, this includes 1x 3 output GPUs, i5 proc with video, elgato for streaming, ~4tb drive for local recording, USB 3.0 for input from blackmagic camera (owned), add on sound card for input from 68 channel board (owned). 
The largest issue I have is attempting to get 1-2 PTZ cameras that I can feed into the pc for ~$3800 or less.

 

Thanks again!

Happi

 

Blackmagic Atem with Blackmagic Studio Cameras or Blackmagic Micro Studio Cameras. There is no ongoing licensing fee that I'm aware of.

 

The micro studio can be theoretically connected to a PTZ tripod head, but in practice I don't think there are any compatible heads. You can find tripod heads that you can control independently of the camera for pretty cheap though.

 

Another option is to ditch the PTZ idea - and go with a 4K camera (e.g the Micro Studio Camera) - that way on a 720p output you'd get over 2x digital zoom with no quality loss and you can use this for virtual pans, tilts and zooms. Or else just a lens that supports remote zoom over LANC.

 

Or you can use a cheaper switcher and find a PTZ camera, though they're becoming harder to find and are mostly used in surveillance now,

 

 

[nickl]

I have used the Newtek Tricaster (410 with the advanced software or whatever), and it works pretty well. It has built in support for live streaming to multiple video streaming sites, if you want to do that sort of thing. The problem with it is its really high cost, which (including a control surface) can get in the >$10K range.

For cameras, some PTZ's would work fine, and I believe that some of the TriCasters have some sort of built in PTZ camera control system, but you would have to look into that to see if that would work for the cameras you want to use.

I assume you will be using the existing camera that you have as the manned camera.The TriCaster 410 has only SDI in, which has been an issue for us as we have to convert our cheaper HDMI cameras to SDI for them to feed into our switcher. This is yet another thing to make sure your cameras will work with.

For your idea of connecting the projectors and screens to the switcher, I'm not sure how well that would work, as unless you are really rich, I doubt there is a single switcher capable of driving 6 screens with different content on each... You may need to  get creative to route the various signals around...

I would appreciate a few clarifications:

• Why would you want a dedicated encoder card?
• Is there a reason that you need to have a USB connection to the mixer, or could you do it with XLR or TRS cables?
• The layout and desired content on the various screens. I would appreciate a diagram if possible.
• What is the desired audience for the production? (Just curious the quality that you want)

[tt2468]

On August 31, 2016 at 8:09 AM, Evanair said:

Ignoring your budget, because you're asking a lot for not much money.  For the setup you want, I'd ask for 20k for the setup from your church.  It could be done for 10-15, but starting with asking for 20 could land you underbudget.

 

Here's a one stop shop for Livestream without the fuss.  https://livestream.com/studio/hd550

Oh god not livestream. Overpriced gear that isn't even up to date.

 

A pc with obs studio, ubuntu, and a blackmagic intensity pro 4k will do just fine. I broadcast 4k events with an intensity pro and an old t5500. It really doesn't require much. Cpu caps out at ~80-90% when streaming to a custom rtmp server. Use ubuntu, as it actually seems to be the best os when kt comes to drivers and OBS.

[Everonman]

Something Like the ATEM 1 M/E Production Studio 4K would probably be the go from my perspective, we use a Production Studio 4K at my church and it runs great, with the 1M/E you get 1 mixed out and 3 Aux outs, a preview out and a multiveiw out. the Auxes can just be replicas of the mixed out or cut to any of the inputs. the main constraint would be that everything needs to be outputting exactly the same res, frame rate, and i or p. also with the internal keyers you can easily overlay lyrics, graphics or even videos (if you have a proper alpha setup).

 

for your streaming/recording using a SDI capture card and a program like OBS or X split would work fine

 

In terms of cameras, in my opinion if you can run 2 manned and 1 static you would be better off, just so your person mixing doesn't need to think about adjusting shots that makes life a lot easier