Police brutality and the Alton Sterling shooting [discussion]

[Overkilled]

As a mixed race guy living in the UK its safe to say its not a good time for Black people to be living in certain parts of the US.

For those of you who havent seen it I suggest you watch it atleast once, be warned it is quite graphics

Spoiler

 

Now personally I have heard about these stories of police brutality on the news or on programs but I've never really seen it until I watched this and it really puts it into perspective for me how bad this issue is getting.

 

In the case of alton here are some things we know quoted from a few websites

 

"According to the Advocate, Baton Rouge police officers Blaine Salamoni and Howie Lake responded to a call at a convenience store around 12:35 am on Tuesday after receiving an anonymous tip that a man in a red shirt who was selling CDs had pointed a gun at someone. Sterling, a 37-year-old black man, matched part of the description: He sold CDs, and he was wearing a red shirt."

 

"The officers then pulled him to the ground, pinning Sterling on his back. An officer yelled, "He’s got a gun!" One officer aimed his gun at Sterling’s chest at virtually point-blank range. Within seconds, at least one officer opened fire, even though Sterling looks completely pinned down and unable to move."

 

"Shop owner Abdullah Muflahi told the Advocate that the officers were "aggressive" from the start, and that Sterling was armed but was not holding his gun and didn’t have his hand near his pocket at the time of the shooting."

 

I looked into it more and I found out about this mans previous convictions...

Sex offender

"Court records show the victim was a 14-year-old girl at the time of the offenses. According to the charging document on file in the courthouse, the victim’s mother had discovered that she was pregnant after taking her to the doctor."

 

Illegally Carrying a Gun & Other Weapons Offenses

"In another probable cause affidavit, an officer, Corporal Paul Lockett, wrote that he was dispatched to a report of suspects trespassing at a home, where they had kicked in the front door and threatened the victim and her husband with a gun. In a probable cause affidavit accusing Sterling of burglary, the victim said that her door was kicked in and suspects presented several guns and made verbal threats."

 

"Alton Sterling was accused of intending to distribute, produce, or manufacture marijuana, court records show. In conjunction with the same charge, he was convicted of “knowingly and intentionally possessing a firearm while in possession of a controlled dangerous substance.” The drug charge was dismissed when he entered a guilty plea, the court records show."

 

"In a sheriff’s affidavit on another date, Sterling was accused of breaking into a woman’s apartment by making a hole in the wall, and then trying to sell her goldfish for $20.

Sterling was also accused of possessing ecstasy and marijuana in different cases, the court file says."

 

Domestic battery

He was convicted three separate times this post is going to be too long to include all the quotes

http://heavy.com/news/2016/07/alton-sterling-arrest-record-criminal-history-rap-sheet-sex-offender-sex-offense-crime-baton-rouge-louisiana-police-shooting-blane-salamoni-howie-lake-shot-charges-video-youtube-facebook-watch/

 

Now I put these quotes in so you knew the facts before you made your decision so here is my opinion.

I didn't think this man deserved to die and I certainly dont think the police are in the right here, even though apparently the tazer had no effect on him if he really was reaching for a weapon why would you shoot him in the chest and not in the arm were it wouldnt be fatal.

That being said apparently the guy was threatening other civilians with a firearm when the police came to the scene and with the guy having a history of violence I really dont know where I stand with this particular case, its really not a black and white straightforward decision imo.

 

This is probably a lenthy post but id love to get other peoples opinions on it. 

 

[terrytek]

really its quite how stupid how cops think they can get away like murder. like 2 of the 3 cops responsible in the death of freddie grey (another black male killed under hands of cops) weren't even found guilty. like how stupid is america for not convicting them? oh yeah, they respect white people more than black people. they convict black people of petty crimes, like minor drug use, and put them in jail for years. but white people, like the stanford rapist, get off easy, and in his case, he only got 6 months for rape, RAPE, and he has a chance to get out early. like what the fuck. seriously white privilege is a dangerously common thing here in america.

[Overkilled]

4 minutes ago, vinyldash303 said:

@Overkilled snip

I understand in the heat of the moment if they truly believed that guy was about to pull a gun out then if they would have shot him once in the chest that would have been justifiable but it lets not forget this man had been tazered and he was being held down by two trained police officers its not like they couldnt of handcuffed him beforehand but I personally havent seen the other perspective which might shine light on what happened.

[stconquest]

They will get away with it. 

[Overkilled]

Yeah I watched the video back I dont think the thing the cop pulled out his pocket was a revolver

[stconquest]

This seems pretty tyrannical.   Where are all the rednecks with the arsenals?  Where is the NRA's outrage, will there be any?  Go take your government back 

 

Go on.  Get your guns. 

[AresKrieger]

Well there is a reason Americans have a long tradition of not trusting the police, they aren't trustworthy plain and simple, that being said this isn't just a black issue it's a cop issue, the cases involving black victims just get more coverage due to the history of abuse by the police department to them in particular, statistically Hispanics are more often shot than other minorities by the police, and of course given how white people are the majority they also have more cop related deaths due to sheer population size.

[killcomic]

Not surprising really. That's what happens when someone is asked to police in a country where fire arms are handed out like lollies and jails are basically cheap labour camps for large corporations.

I could be wrong, but from what I've seen the US police force seems pretty unprofessional. Whether it's due to them being overworked and stressed out, I don't know, but the end result is that people are dying.

[stconquest]

1 hour ago, killcomic said:

Not surprising really. That's what happens when someone is asked to police in a country where fire arms are handed out like lollies and jails are basically cheap labour camps for large corporations.

I could be wrong, but from what I've seen the US police force seems pretty unprofessional. Whether it's due to them being over worked and stressed out, I don't know, but the end result is that people are ding.

Hold on a minute their bub, I have a constitutional right to bear arms.  It is right there in the Constitution.  A second amendment to the Constitution.  It is a human right...

 

Are you saying that a police officer may realize how easy it is to kill someone with the kit they have as officers, and further realize that since the population can be legally armed with the same level of lethal gear that the officer in turn... could fear for his life at any perceived threat?.. whether real or not?   Oh my, that sounds like some psycho babble bullshit to me...

 

More guns, we need more guns.  Criminals get guns, we get guns... it needs to be this way.  Hmmm, do criminals make their own guns? <<<

[killcomic]

50 minutes ago, stconquest said:

Hold on a minute their bub, I have a constitutional right to bear arms.  It is right there in the Constitution.  A second amendment to the Constitution.  It is a human right...

 

Are you saying that a police officer may realize how easy it is to kill someone with the kit they have as officers, and further realize that since the population can be legally armed with the same level of lethal gear that that officer in turn... could fear for his life at any perceived threat?.. whether real or not?   Oh my, that sounds like some psycho babble bullshit to me...

 

More guns, we need more guns.  Criminals get guns, we get guns... it needs to be this way.  Hmmm, do criminals make their own guns? <<<

Damn straight! Let's go and get some guns freedom fries!

[stconquest]

1 hour ago, killcomic said:

Damn straight! Let's go and get some guns freedom fries!

Can we go watch a lynching afterward?  If so, I'm in!

 

...

[killcomic]

2 minutes ago, stconquest said:

Can we go watch a lynching afterward?  If so, I'm in!

 

...

Totally!

Don't forget to bomb the crap out of some third world country first!

[straight_stewie]

I have spent the entire day today watching, rewatching, dissecting, and discussing all three videos of his shooting. From my research I personally believe that the police were in the right to have shot him, but not in the right to have gotten into that serious of an altercation in the first place. I believe that they should have tased him instead of tackling him (you shouldn't tase someone that you are touching, you might accidentally tase yourself). 

From the videos I have gathered that Alton did indeed have what appeared to be a firearm in his pocket. The officer that was in the background (the non-firing officer) pulled it out of Alton's pocket after he was shot. 

Transcription of this video (written over more than 6 non consecutive hours spent watching and rewatching. Do not watch this, it contains graphic imagery of someone being shot multiple times. You have been warned.

Spoiler

 

A transcription of the video with seconds as the indices. 

Spoiler

• From the beginning: You can clearly see that his left arm is pinned down by the officer in the foreground. He is definitely struggling against them.
• 0:02) Alton yells "leave me alone"
• 0:03) The officer in the background yells "fuck he's got a gun". The officer in the foreground begins to withdraw his sidearm.
• 0:06) The foreground officer holds his sidearm to Alton's chest. Alton yells "gun!". The background officer says "You fucking move I swear to god", and appears to be struggling to restrain Alton's right arm. The background officer successfully restrains Alton's right arm across Alton's chest.
• 0:07) Alton pulls his right arm out of the background officers grip. It moves towards his right waist. 
• 0:08) The background officer yells "[unintelligible] he's going for the gun!". 
• 0:09) The camera man says "8ball 8ball". The foreground officer fires the first shot.
• 0:10) The foreground officer fires the second shot. Alton rolls over and throws the background officer over him. The camera starts to move such that the altercation is out of view.
• 0:13) An officer yells "get on the ground!" and then immediately fires one shot. 
• 0:15) An officer fires two more shots.
• 0:16) The camera man points the camera back towards the altercation. The police officer is laying on his right side with his firearm pointed at a bleeding Alton.
• 0:24) The officer in camera view yells "fuck!" and starts to get up.
• 0:29) The officer that was not in camera view walks into camera view and reaches into Alton's right pocket.
• 0:30) The background officer pulls what appears to be a small caliber revolver out of Alton's right pocket. As he is stepping away, you can clearly see that he is clutching something black in the hand he reached into Alton's pocket.

This is a really tough one to call, but I do believe that it was a firearm that the officer pulled out of Alton's right pocket. I can see with my own eyes that Alton was struggling greatly to move his right arm towards his right pocket, and in no way was complying with the officers. I personally choose to believe that one of these officers would have died had Alton not been shot when he was. That said: I believe that the altercation should never have been that bad to begin with. If Alton was not complying before they tackled him, they should have tased him. Unfortunately, do to the policy in many jurisdictions, officers are not allowed to use a taser unless the person is being combative. I believe that the officers were in the right, but that we need to reform taser policies to allow tasing in cases of "non compliance". That may lead to an increase in the amount of people who get tased, but I believe that that would save many lives. I personally do not see a difference between tasing and being tackled and beaten up. For the record, I have been tased (for fun).

Ultimately though, only time with tell. If Alton did indeed have a firearm, then it is in an evidence locker right now, and will eventually be shown to the public. Else, the officers were not in the right.

[stconquest]

1 hour ago, straight_stewie said:

- -

 

IDK what to say to you... 

 

He was thrown onto a car hood, then thrown to another hood, then tazed, then tackled to the ground... then you see the video.  This account is from from eye witness testimony.

 

You are fucking nuts if you think all those shots to the chest were justified.... I don't care how many times you watched the video. 

 

"a tough one to call"  ... you have serious issues with perception it seems.   I see why cops repeatedly get away with this shit... disgusting man, simply fucking disgusting.

 

You actually think he had a gun on him?  Why is that?  There is no evidence in the video you scoured over.  Just because the cop yells gun?  That's a laugh.

 

Let me ask you:  Is Louisiana an open carry state?  I really don't know, let's look...

 

...there we go... it is an open carry state.  Your argument turns into smellier shit.  With all the similar incidents in the USA, you must be really smelly

 

Sorry, but this is as angry as I am physically capable of. 

 

Even if he had an illegal gun on him, this police act is not in the realm of justifiable. 

 

Is it possible that the police planted the gun in his pocket while on top of him?  There was access to his pocket for an extended period of time.  Put the gun in, yell gun and kill this man.  This sounds like something pieces of shit would do to get away with the thrill of killing another.

 

LMAO, this fucking world... dumb as shit.

 

Looks more like a setup.  Why is he not cuffed after being tazed?  Why are they wrestling with him on the ground?

 

...I keep getting angry now... thinking people will believe some shit story these cops try to make up.

 

How far will this type of shit go?  Are we regressing back to the 50s and 60s?  Do people need to draw their weapons as a show of force every time they see an officer approaching them?

[stconquest]

Oh, there we go... 5 dead cops.  War on the streets of the USA... like going 60 years back in time... good job everyone.

 

I am amazed how people think the population of a community will sit and take abuses like this.  Sitting in a little bubble with no ability to empathize:

 

I think this completely unnecessary murder was justified, I mean the police must have had a reason... not sure what it is but I believe it is a good one.

 

All I can do is put myself in their shoes and think, what I would be willing to do to make it stop.  I keep asking myself if there is a non violent solution, and it gets harder and harder to come up with one after each of these incidents.

 

What if it was my community, my friend or my family member?  What if I am the 4 year old sitting in a car watching a police officer murder a man right in front of me and my mom? 

 

Fucking crazy.

[VerticalDiscussions]

I dont live in the US, but, 1 bullet to the arm would be enough, not 3 to the chest...

 

Eitherways, if you guys didnt have cops it would be worst and theres always one bad/racist "apple" amongst the bunch. Just dont try to overlook at all cops in such a confined way. 

[stconquest]

4 minutes ago, VerticalDiscussions said:

I dont live in the US, but, 1 bullet to the arm would be enough, not 3 to the chest...

 

Eitherways, if you guys didnt have cops it would be worst and theres always one bad/racist "apple" amongst the bunch. Just dont try to overlook at all cops in such a confined way. 

That is a problem.  Now good cops are killed, with the same disregard as these citizens were.  It is a war, really... a small one but a war nonetheless.

 

How do you pick a side?  I can't... being outside of it here in Canada.  I can't side with the officers, and I can't side with the guys that just shot 5 cops.

[Guest Kloaked]

11 hours ago, Overkilled said:

As a mixed race guy living in the UK its safe to say its not a good time for Black people to be living in certain parts of the US.

No, that's not safe to say. How many states are there in the US? 50. How many county districts? Too many to count - there's probably a number somewhere, but that's not important as the number is extremely large. That means there are more police and sheriff's departments than you can count, who employ many Blacks, Hispanics, various Asian races, and of course, us Whiteys.

 

What's safe to say is it's not a good time to be a cop. Just recently a White cop in my county was shot in the face by a Black man who was my age. It was supposed to be a typical traffic stop as the Black guy was speeding. The cop was going to apparently let him off with a warning since the man had a clean record, but as the cop came back to the vehicle, the driver shot the cop in the face and drove off.

 

He ended up turning himself in, and miraculously the cop is making a full recovery as the bullet did no severe damage, somehow.

 

Then just last night, four cops (AFAIK) are confirmed dead and several more injured at the BLM "protest" in Dallas, Texas.

 

But even me saying "It's safe to say it's not a good time to be a cop" implies that the sky is falling over here, which is not the case. What you're seeing on the news, while a horrible and tragic event, isn't all of a sudden making it unsafe to be Black in this country.

 

8 hours ago, stconquest said:

This seems pretty tyrannical.   Where are all the rednecks with the arsenals?  Where is the NRA's outrage, will there be any?  Go take your government back 

 

Go on.  Get your guns. 

Firstly, stop watching TYT. They're a bunch of crooks, even worse than people on mainstream media.

 

Secondly, stop generalizing the entire population of "rednecks" who are legal firearm owners.

 

And thirdly, you don't ever hear about the NRA who are actively trying to make firearms safer, and gun control more tight yet not imposing on the rights of the People - it doesn't fit the mainstream narrative of anti-gun currently.

 

So please, do your research and stop insulting an entire population of people who are probably all-around better people than you will ever hope to be.

 

7 hours ago, killcomic said:

Not surprising really. That's what happens when someone is asked to police in a country where fire arms are handed out like lollies and jails are basically cheap labour camps for large corporations.

I could be wrong, but from what I've seen the US police force seems pretty unprofessional. Whether it's due to them being overworked and stressed out, I don't know, but the end result is that people are dying.

Firearms are not "handed out like lollies". You are required to pass a background check and take a gun safety course in order to purchase a firearm. Background checks are thorough and strict. Just recently a news reporter attempted to purchase a firearm, but his background check threw a red flag because he had a history of abusing his wife. So, he was not sold a gun.

 

Jails are not cheap labor camps for corporations. I don't know where you heard that, but this is completely untrue. Prisoners who are on good behavior are put to work picking up garbage off the streets, mowing city lawns, and so on. They don't go around restocking shelves in stores or running cash registers.

 

The US Police force is professional. No, it's not perfect, obviously. We have people who are poorly trained, and that's on their department, not the rest of the country. While you're sitting back over there across the lake, judging our country from the tidbits of what you hear, let me tell you that we're getting along just fine and probably better than you are.

 

I would also like to add, the events involving the dead of two Black men aren't for you to judge especially. You have no fucking clue what is going on over here, and frankly I don't either because I wasn't physically there for those events. All I see on social media are #BlueLivesMatter and le #BlackLivesMatter and all of this other shit that doesn't matter. I want facts, and apparently waiting on facts is considered illogical nowadays.

 

So I hope this actually fucking helps you understand what's going on over here. We've had these issues since the beginning of time and they're not going away any time soon. If you have a perfect world I could live in, please send me a ticket so I can come as well, because I sure as hell don't believe there is a perfect place to live in. I'm sure as shit though, that America is better off than any other country on this planet, even with the upcoming election being what it is.

 

Sorry guys, but America is still better than you, regardless of what's been happening lately.

[stconquest]

18 minutes ago, Kloaked said:

Firstly, stop watching TYT. They're a bunch of crooks, even worse than people on mainstream media.

 

Secondly, stop generalizing the entire population of "rednecks" who are legal firearm owners.

 

And thirdly, you don't ever hear about the NRA who are actively trying to make firearms safer, and gun control more tight yet not imposing on the rights of the People - it doesn't fit the mainstream narrative of anti-gun currently.

 

So please, do your research and stop insulting an entire population of people who are probably all-around better people than you will ever hope to be.

Firstly, what do you care whether I watch TYT or not?  I have been watching TYT for over a decade now.  How the fuck are they crooks?  Do your research.

 

I did not generalize, I was nonspecific when using term "redneck".  Everyone and their brother in the USA has a gun.  "Redneck" was not specific to gun owners, especially responsible ones. Learn2read.

 

You really don't understand the gun lobby, huh?  The NRA assures the flood of guns into the market in order for manufacturers to make bank.  Do your research.

 

Do your research and realize the shit stuff like this starts.  5 cops are now dead.  Probably good cops too.  The communities affected by the criminal acts of bad cops feel like they are backed into a corner.  If cops are not held responsible for their actions, eventually something will give.  People will get fed up and fight back.  Do you expect anything less?

 

All that the community sees are cops that feel like killing and do so when they get a chance to.

[Guest Kloaked]

1 minute ago, stconquest said:

Firstly, what do you care whether I watch TYT or not?  I have been watching TYT for over a decade now.  How the fuck are they crooks?  Do your research.

 

I did not generalize, I was nonspecific when using term "redneck".  Everyone and their brother in the USA has a gun.  "Redneck" was not specific to gun owners, especially responsible ones. Learn2read.

 

You really don't understand the gun lobby, huh?  The NRA assures the flood of guns into the market in order for manufacturers to make bank.  Do your research.

 

Do your research and realize the shit stuff like this starts.  5 cops are now dead.  Probably good cops too.  The communities affected by the criminal acts of bad cops feel like they are backed into a corner.  If cops are not held responsible for their actions, eventually something will give.  People will get fed up and fight back.  Do you expect anything less.

You're so full of it, lmfao.

 

TYT spreads propaganda and they lie about just about everything to suit their narrative.

 

You did generalize. You're using the term redneck as an insult. And no, everyone and their brother do no own guns. In fact, I'd wager that a majority of the population of the US do not own guns.

 

Your conspiracy about the NRA is exactly why I said you should stop watching TYT, but you're free to do what you want, of course. If you want to come to reality, then stop viewing them and get your information from somewhere else.

 

Plenty of cops are held responsible for heinous actions. You hear about the dumbasses all the time because it fits a fucking narrative. You're on the internet, and on this forum for god's sake. You should know that journalism in general is trying to push their views and a specific narrative to make you think a certain way. Wake up and smell the bacon, mate.

 

A majority of these people "fighting back" have nothing better to do because they can't hold a job, refuse to even get a job, lack education, and so on. But that forces them to shoot to kill cops, right? Makes sense.

 

Do your research.

[stconquest]

2 minutes ago, Kloaked said:

You're so full of it, lmfao.

 

TYT spreads propaganda and they lie about just about everything to suit their narrative.

 

You did generalize. You're using the term redneck as an insult. And no, everyone and their brother do no own guns. In fact, I'd wager that a majority of the population of the US do not own guns.

 

Your conspiracy about the NRA is exactly why I said you should stop watching TYT, but you're free to do what you want, of course. If you want to come to reality, then stop viewing them and get your information from somewhere else.

 

Plenty of cops are held responsible for heinous actions. You hear about the dumbasses all the time because it fits a fucking narrative. You're on the internet, and on this forum for god's sake. You should know that journalism in general is trying to push their views and a specific narrative to make you think a certain way. Wake up and smell the bacon, mate.

 

A majority of these people "fighting back" have nothing better to do because they can't hold a job, refuse to even get a job, lack education, and so on. But that forces them to shoot to kill cops, right? Makes sense.

 

Do your research.

I disagree and refrain. 

 

Maybe you are right.  Maybe you are wrong.

[AresKrieger]

8 minutes ago, stconquest said:

Firstly, what do you care whether I watch TYT or not?  I have been watching TYT for over a decade now.  How the fuck are they crooks?  Do your research.

 

I did not generalize, I was nonspecific when using term "redneck".  Everyone and their brother in the USA has a gun.  "Redneck" was not specific to gun owners, especially responsible ones. Learn2read.

 

You really don't understand the gun lobby, huh?  The NRA assures the flood of guns into the market in order for manufacturers to make bank.  Do your research.

 

Do your research and realize the shit stuff like this starts.  5 cops are now dead.  Probably good cops too.  The communities affected by the criminal acts of bad cops feel like they are backed into a corner.  If cops are not held responsible for their actions, eventually something will give.  People will get fed up and fight back.  Do you expect anything less?

Look I'll I'm not going to get into this argument any more than that off the young turks, because it would be distasteful otherwise, but I will say this, the group who they named themselves after was the same turkish movement that caused the armenian genocide, they are scum.

[Guest Kloaked]

1 minute ago, stconquest said:

I disagree and refrain. 

 

Maybe you are right.  Maybe you are wrong.

I'm completely right. I would bet my life that you and I, and everyone else who owns a fucking television are getting fed a bunch of bullshit. It's our fault for even partaking in in it which eggs on the continuation of it.

 

You know what's worse? When you draw a stone conclusion that you're not willing to contemplate changing when someone else opposes your view. So think twice about generalizing next time, and know what you're talking about first. Please.

[Misanthrope]

You guys might be on the verge of complete social breakdown since you know the cops will skate as justified and the cop killer will get the lethal injection. 

 

It baffles me to think cops can be so arrogant in the land of automatic weapons for all. It baffles me Obama called the cops racist even if they are you can't do that before you directly intervene. Now everyone will react according to their extreme rhetoric. Both sides will call to action, more killings will ensure. 

 

 

[Guest Kloaked]

2 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Now everyone will react according to their extreme rhetoric.

This is the saddest part. I've already seen white people make racist comments on Facebook since they're getting so riled up. I'm fucking pissed too, but I'm not all of a sudden expressing my inner racism because muh feelings got hurt, because that shit is what the issue is in the first place.

 

What's worse is you can't win with whatever you do.

 

Oh, you support #BLM? Well you're a fucking lunatic and you deserve to go back to the cotton fields.

 

Oh, you think all lives matter? Well you're a fucking racist and you deserved to get shot like the rest of these cops.

 

Oh, you want to everyone to stop fucking killing each other over some stupid shit? Well.... you're somehow a racist for not supporting BLM and you're a shitlord cuck for not believing in the #AllLivesMatter hashtag.

 

Can't win. You can't fucking win.