Police brutality and the Alton Sterling shooting [discussion]

[AresKrieger]

2 minutes ago, Kloaked said:

snip

The only way to win is to not play the game, just let the idiots kill each other and if it comes to anarchy be prepared to eliminate threats to you.

[Guest Kloaked]

5 minutes ago, AresKrieger said:

The only way to win is to not play the game, just let the idiots kill each other and if it comes to anarchy be prepared to eliminate threats to you.

See, that's the other thing. We haven't reached a point of pure chaos where I have to do that. I can still walk down the street and not get shot at. Is it my "white privilege"? Don't think so. It's probably because I wear clothes that don't make me look like a thug, and I don't have an issue with authority.

 

Sure, I could see BLM becoming an actual terrorism group, or radical Muslims attempting to take over and I would have to stand my ground or something, but come on. It's not chaos here. Whenever the Ferguson riots happened, it was pure chaos, but for a single night. People got arrested. Everyone calmed the fuck down.

 

Things will go back to the way they were like they always do, with everyone worrying about what President we're going to have and whether or not they want a Number 1 or Number 2 ad McDonalds.

[stconquest]

2 hours ago, AresKrieger said:

Look I'll I'm not going to get into this argument any more than that off the young turks, because it would be distasteful otherwise, but I will say this, the group who they named themselves after was the same turkish movement that caused the armenian genocide, they are scum.

Good thing I don't watch them for their name...  Are you sure that is what their name is to represent?  I don't think Cenk (the host) is really the genocidal type. 

 

I hold no love for the Ottoman empire and the subsequent Turkish rule over many regions, including my own family's country, but I would not associate TYT with that movement against the Armenians.  You do know that the co host (Anna Kasperian) is Armenian, right?  So is at least one other host. 

 

I am sure if they can see the divide between the Turkish rule and Cenk, you can too?

 

@AresKrieger

 

From wikipedia: 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Turks

 

The term "Young Turk" is now used to signify "a progressive, revolutionary, or rebellious member of an organization, political party, etc, esp one agitating for radical reform"^[10] and various groups in different countries have been named Young Turks because of their rebellious or revolutionary nature.

 

This seems to fit the message that TYT promotes:  real change... for the better in their case.  The official name for the party that was in charge during the genocide was the CUP, Commitee of Union and Progress.

[Misanthrope]

8 minutes ago, Kloaked said:

See, that's the other thing. We haven't reached a point of pure chaos where I have to do that. I can still walk down the street and not get shot at. Is it my "white privilege"? Don't think so. It's probably because I wear clothes that don't make me look like a thug, and I don't have an issue with authority.

 

Sure, I could see BLM becoming an actual terrorism group, or radical Muslims attempting to take over and I would have to stand my ground or something, but come on. It's not chaos here. Whenever the Ferguson riots happened, it was pure chaos, but for a single night. People got arrested. Everyone calmed the fuck down.

 

Things will go back to the way they were like they always do, with everyone worrying about what President we're going to have and whether or not they want a Number 1 or Number 2 ad McDonalds.

The thing is we've seen escalation a lot earlier this time around. No generalized protest but people killing cops. Once the cops get pardoned there's gonna be both massive demonstrations and people trying to shoot cops. And cops will probably intervene, drastically. This has the potential to break up the protests not by just arresting protesters but my basically massacring entire crowds of people.

 

It would be much healthier for society if we just had massive demonstrations instead of people shooting at cops: cops that already feel "threatened" and entitled to immediate use of extreme measures. Cops that will have to be thinking "Not gonna be me" from now on so even something as simple as someone making a lout cracking noise can potentially end up in a shoot out. 

 

I hope I am dead wrong here and this is just an isolated case, but I've seen BLM rhetoric and I've seen Cops. Both want fucking blood for completely different reasons and it looks like it's open fucking season now sadly.

[stconquest]

7 minutes ago, Kloaked said:

See, that's the other thing. We haven't reached a point of pure chaos where I have to do that. I can still walk down the street and not get shot at. Is it my "white privilege"? Don't think so. It's probably because I wear clothes that don't make me look like a thug, and I don't have an issue with authority.

 

Sure, I could see BLM becoming an actual terrorism group, or radical Muslims attempting to take over and I would have to stand my ground or something, but come on. It's not chaos here. Whenever the Ferguson riots happened, it was pure chaos, but for a single night. People got arrested. Everyone calmed the fuck down.

 

Things will go back to the way they were like they always do, with everyone worrying about what President we're going to have and whether or not they want a Number 1 or Number 2 ad McDonalds.

People coordinated an attack against the cops.  I don't think that has happened in a long time.  BLM will not become a terrorist group.  People might, I stress might, continue to revolt against the police in a violent way.  The more successful this first attack is considered, the more likely to re-occur.

 

It is like when cops get away with wrongly killing, the more they get away with, the more likely to repeat.

 

The attack on cops today is what I was dreading.

[AresKrieger]

2 minutes ago, stconquest said:

Good thing I don't watch them for their name...  Are you sure that is what their name is to represent?  I don't think Cenk (the host) is really the genocidal type. 

 

I hold no love for the Ottoman empire and the subsequent Turkish rule over many regions, including my own family's country, but I would not associate TYT with that movement against the Armenians.  You do know that the co host (Anna Kasperian) is Armenian, right?  So is at least one other host. 

 

I am sure if they can see the divide between the Turkish rule and Cenk, you can too?

I'm just saying I can't respect someone who is ignorant enough to name themselves something akin to national socialist and then take those people seriously, and after seeing a lot of their content I doubt it was intentional, just stupidity. And I can see the difference between the two, it just doesn't matter given it's historical connection, the people helped make the monster so they share in the blame for the destruction it causes.

 

As for their content that's a matter of taste (I think they are cancer tbh), but it's not in you're best interest to use them as a source for any intelligent conversation since they don't have any credibility (think of them as worse than Fox or MSNBC)

[stconquest]

@Kloaked  Hey, I don't want to get your panties in a bunch, but I was reading the thread on the Dallas shootings and:

 

7 hours ago, Kloaked said:

Probably not. Google is slap full of SJW pussies running their social media right now.

Were you not reaming me for generalizing?  WTF man.  You are now getting my panties all knotted up. 

[stconquest]

5 minutes ago, AresKrieger said:

I'm just saying I can't respect someone who is ignorant enough to name themselves something akin to national socialist and then take those people seriously, and after seeing a lot of their content I doubt it was intentional, just stupidity. And I can see the difference between the two, it just doesn't matter given it's historical connection, the people helped make the monster so they share in the blame for the destruction it causes.

 

As for their content that's a matter of taste (I think they are cancer tbh), but it's not in you're best interest to use them as a source for any intelligent conversation since they don't have any credibility (think of them as worse than Fox or MSNBC)

I thank you for your advice, but I will choose to ignore it.  I don't see them as a negative force and I have them being on the right side of things more than not.

[Guest Kloaked]

3 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

The thing is we've seen escalation a lot earlier this time around. No generalize protest but people killing cops. Once the cops get pardoned there's gonna be both massive demonstrations and people trying to shoot cops. And cops will probably intervene, drastically. This has the potential to break up the protests not by just arresting protesters but my basically massacring entire crowds of people.

 

It would be much healthier for society if we just had massive demonstrations instead of people shooting at cops: cops that already feel "threatened" and entitled to immediate use of extreme measures. Cops that will have to be thinking "Not gonna be me" from now on so even something as simple as someone making a lout cracking noise can potentially end up in a shoot out. 

 

I hope I am dead wrong here and this is just an isolated case, but I've seen BLM rhetoric and I've seen Cops. Both want fucking blood for completely different reasons and it looks like it's open fucking season now sadly.

The example that I mentioned earlier, of the White cop being shot in the face where I live - the police in my area were out for blood because one of their own were shot without any true reason. Even today they still don't know why the young man (dude is fucking my age) chose to shoot the cop.

 

Stuff like that happens everywhere. There's White on White crime, Black on Black, White on Black, etc etc etc. It will not stop, no matter how many celebrities weigh in on hot topics and no matter what Lord™ Obama says in a follow up to these events.

 

When you have Black people going around dancing and cheering for police deaths, stomping on and burning the US flag in protest, they're going to escalate it.

 

Every person in the country knows police brutality exists. My friend who works as a police officer knows it exists, and thankfully it doesn't exist where I live specifically - we have good police here for the most part (besides one turning off his camera so he could get a blowjob from a woman he pulled over instead of giving her a ticket).

 

I'm not saying these events won't get worse. I had a conversation with someone else about this and my conclusion was the next time this happens, it will be WAY worse than what we've seen so far.

[Guest Kloaked]

7 minutes ago, stconquest said:

People coordinated an attack against the cops.  I don't think that has happened in a long time.  BLM will not become a terrorist group.  People might, I stress might, continue to revolt against the police in a violent way.  The more successful this first attack is considered, the more likely to re-occur.

 

It is like when cops get away with wrongly killing, the more they get away with, the more likely to repeat.

 

The attack on cops today is what I was dreading.

They will be turned into an actual terrorist group. They are borderline terrorists by definition right now.

4 minutes ago, stconquest said:

@Kloaked  Hey, I don't want to get your panties in a bunch, but I was reading the thread on the Dallas shootings and:

 

Were you not reaming me for generalizing?  WTF man.  You are now getting my panties all knotted up. 

Google is actually slap full of SJW pussies. That's different than me saying an entire country is full of people who don't know how to handle a firearm, and scream NASCAR whenever they go deer hunting with a beer in one hand and their rifle in the other.

 

The opposite generalization I could make is that all British people have bad dental health, bad teeth, and lose their shit like little girls whenever someone casually mentions something about a firearm.

[stconquest]

5 minutes ago, Kloaked said:

They will be turned into an actual terrorist group. They are borderline terrorists by definition right now.

 

Google is actually slap full of SJW pussies. That's different than me saying an entire country is full of people who don't know how to handle a firearm, and scream NASCAR whenever they go deer hunting with a beer in one hand and their rifle in the other.

 

The opposite generalization I could make is that all British people have bad dental health, bad teeth, and lose their shit like little girls whenever someone casually mentions something about a firearm.

I am done.  this is retarded.

[Guest Kloaked]

7 minutes ago, stconquest said:

I am done.  this is retarded.

Sorry

[straight_stewie]

10 hours ago, stconquest said:

He was thrown onto a car hood, then thrown to another hood, then tazed, then tackled to the ground... then you see the video.  This account is from from eye witness testimony.

You're telling me that Alton was beaten, then tased, then tackled and was still resisting arrest? That's one BA dude that I wouldn't want to tussle with. Beyond that, in the video Alton is heard saying "Get the fuck off me". This is what separates his resistance struggling from instinctual struggling. Instinctual struggling is an unconscious action to defend oneself: "Oh no! I'm gonna get hit in the face! Better put my arm up". Resistance struggling is struggling with an authority figure for the sake of not complying with authority.

 

 

10 hours ago, stconquest said:

You actually think he had a gun on him?  Why is that?  There is no evidence in the video you scoured over.  Just because the cop yells gun?  That's a laugh.

If you would have bothered to read and understand my post, you would see the part where the police officer pulls something out of Alton's pocket, after Alton was shot. Now I cannot say with 100% certainty that it was a firearm. What I do know is that the officers hand was empty when he reached into Alton's pocket (his palm was open and faced the camera). I also can see that he pulled an L shaped metallic object out of Alton's right pocket. Now let's narrow down the possibilities of what this mysterious L shaped metallic object could be. There are only three metallic L shaped things that I know of that people carry in their pockets: Bottle openers, allen wrenches, and handguns. So let's narrow this list down: One leg of the object appeared to be about the same length as the officers hand. Are you telling me that Alton was carrying around an allen wrench in his pocket? I believe that I also used this stipulation:

10 hours ago, straight_stewie said:

Ultimately though, only time with tell. If Alton did indeed have a firearm, then it is in an evidence locker right now, and will eventually be shown to the public. Else, the officers were not in the right.

 

10 hours ago, stconquest said:

Let me ask you:  Is Louisiana an open carry state?  I really don't know, let's look...

 

...there we go... it is an open carry state.  Your argument turns into smellier shit.  With all the similar incidents in the USA, you must be really smelly

It doesn't matter. Alton wasn't open carrying. He was concealed carrying. If you would look up applicable laws in Louisiana,you would know that you are required to have a permit to carry a concealed firearm, you are required to tell a police officer that you are carrying, and if asked for id you must also show your concealed carry permit. Nevermind the fact that Alton couldn't legally own a firearm at all due to his being convicted of multiple violent misdemeanors.

 

10 hours ago, stconquest said:

Is it possible that the police planted the gun in his pocket while on top of him?  There was access to his pocket for an extended period of time.  Put the gun in, yell gun and kill this man.  This sounds like something pieces of shit would do to get away with the thrill of killing another.

While you cannot see both police officers arms on Alton at all times, you can see the officers pockets at all times. Show me in the video where one of the officers reached into his pocket in the middle of the struggle, supposedly to get the firearm that you believe was planted there. And this is forgetting about the fact that the police were only there because someone called them saying that Alton was brandishing a firearm... I'm beginning to think that debating this with you is pointless, as it is obvious that you have convicted all police of wrongdoing inside your own little sheep brain, and no amount of evidence to the contrary will change your prejudice on this subject matter.

 

10 hours ago, stconquest said:

Looks more like a setup.  Why is he not cuffed after being tazed?  Why are they wrestling with him on the ground?

Well, he wasn't cuffed while he was being tased because you shouldn't touch someone that you are electrocuting. That's a good way to electrocute yourself. It's entirely possible that he wasn't cuffed after being tased for the same reason that after he was shot in the chest twice he threw a police officer: It had little to no effect on him. We've all seen youtube videos of someone being tased and it having little to no effect on them. Incase you haven't, here's one:

Spoiler

 

 

For the record, and just as a test to see if you actually read this far. For the first few hours of my studying this incident I did not believe that it was a justifiable act. It was only after great thought, study, and even a reenactment that I realized that if Alton was not shot when he was, there would be another dead police officer, and Alton would have been shot anyway for shooting one of the officers. Ultimately I believe that once Alton continued to resist after being tased, his fate was sealed. This really is that simple, if you aren't ready to die for whatever it is you believe that causes you to think that police have no authority over you, then don't fucking resist them. It used to be common knowledge that if you were combative against police with a lethal potential you would die. There are even cases where people have used that as a method to commit "assisted suicide".

[TheBestUserName]

 

 

Seems relevant.  

Insensitive? You decide. 

[stconquest]

2 hours ago, straight_stewie said:

You're telling me that Alton was beaten, then tased, then tackled and was still resisting arrest? That's one BA dude that I wouldn't want to tussle with. Beyond that, in the video Alton is heard saying "Get the fuck off me". This is what separates his resistance struggling from instinctual struggling. Instinctual struggling is an unconscious action to defend oneself: "Oh no! I'm gonna get hit in the face! Better put my arm up". Resistance struggling is struggling with an authority figure for the sake of not complying with authority.

 

 

If you would have bothered to read and understand my post, you would see the part where the police officer pulls something out of Alton's pocket, after Alton was shot. Now I cannot say with 100% certainty that it was a firearm. What I do know is that the officers hand was empty when he reached into Alton's pocket (his palm was open and faced the camera). I also can see that he pulled an L shaped metallic object out of Alton's right pocket. Now let's narrow down the possibilities of what this mysterious L shaped metallic object could be. There are only three metallic L shaped things that I know of that people carry in their pockets: Bottle openers, allen wrenches, and handguns. So let's narrow this list down: One leg of the object appeared to be about the same length as the officers hand. Are you telling me that Alton was carrying around an allen wrench in his pocket? I believe that I also used this stipulation:

 

It doesn't matter. Alton wasn't open carrying. He was concealed carrying. If you would look up applicable laws in Louisiana,you would know that you are required to have a permit to carry a concealed firearm, you are required to tell a police officer that you are carrying, and if asked for id you must also show your concealed carry permit. Nevermind the fact that Alton couldn't legally own a firearm at all due to his being convicted of multiple violent misdemeanors.

 

While you cannot see both police officers arms on Alton at all times, you can see the officers pockets at all times. Show me in the video where one of the officers reached into his pocket in the middle of the struggle, supposedly to get the firearm that you believe was planted there. And this is forgetting about the fact that the police were only there because someone called them saying that Alton was brandishing a firearm... I'm beginning to think that debating this with you is pointless, as it is obvious that you have convicted all police of wrongdoing inside your own little sheep brain, and no amount of evidence to the contrary will change your prejudice on this subject matter.

 

Well, he wasn't cuffed while he was being tased because you shouldn't touch someone that you are electrocuting. That's a good way to electrocute yourself. It's entirely possible that he wasn't cuffed after being tased for the same reason that after he was shot in the chest twice he threw a police officer: It had little to no effect on him. We've all seen youtube videos of someone being tased and it having little to no effect on them. Incase you haven't, here's one:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

For the record, and just as a test to see if you actually read this far. For the first few hours of my studying this incident I did not believe that it was a justifiable act. It was only after great thought, study, and even a reenactment that I realized that if Alton was not shot when he was, there would be another dead police officer, and Alton would have been shot anyway for shooting one of the officers. Ultimately I believe that once Alton continued to resist after being tased, his fate was sealed. This really is that simple, if you aren't ready to die for whatever it is you believe that causes you to think that police have no authority over you, then don't fucking resist them. It used to be common knowledge that if you were combative against police with a lethal potential you would die. There are even cases where people have used that as a method to commit "assisted suicide".

I apologize for going off on you.  I should not have.  You are just expressing your point of view.

 

The problem I have with your point of view is that nothing in the video displayed any sort of professional conduct on the part of the police officers yet you side with authority because... why?

 

They shot a man six times point blank in the chest as two of them were on top of him.  Yeah, they tazed him.  Yeah they tackled him.  

 

 

Don't you get the possibility that they put that gun in his pocket?  I am not saying that is what happened, but it is very possible.  With the actions of murdering a man like this, I can't put a simple slip of a small .22 into his cargo pocket past these cop's willingness to cause trouble.  You said he is bad ass?  Why, because he might have felt he was fighting for his life after being attacked?  Maybe he was BA enough to realize they put something into his pocket and was trying to remove it... but that is all speculative and irrelevant.  YES, irrelevant.  That is why you got me angry. 

 

The gun, which I do believe was in that pocket (I agree with you), does not even matter.  At no point in the video could you see anything that could be depicted as a threat to the officer's lives... at least to a rational, perceptive mind.  The cops had advantage through the whole video, and used that position to execute him.

 

Tell me what I am seeing wrong.

 

One officer on each arm means he can't reach for anything.  Get it?  One officer on each arm means he is not a threat to their lives. 

 

There is more video.  Taken by police.

 

 

[straight_stewie]

38 minutes ago, stconquest said:

The problem I have with your point of view is that nothing in the video displayed any sort of professional conduct on the part of the police officers yet you side with authority because... why?

The problem with this statement is that the video only begins after Alton started resisting. We have no idea how the officers initially conducted themselves. 

 

40 minutes ago, stconquest said:

They shot a man six time point blank in the chest as two of them were on top of him.  Yeah, they tazed him.  Yeah they tackled him.

Yes they did. They did things in the right order too. When he initially started resisting, they banged him into a car (which is extremely common). At which time he became combative, so they tased him. This did nothing so they tackled him. That's the correct order to apply necessary force: Least to most.
 

 

41 minutes ago, stconquest said:

Don't you get the possibility that they put that gun in his pocket?  I am not saying that is what happened, but it is very possible.  With the actions of murdering a man like this, I can't put a simple slip of a small .22 into his cargo pocket past these cop's willingness to cause trouble.  You said he is bad ass?  Why, because he might have felt he was fighting for his life after being attacked?  Maybe he was BA enough to realize they put something into his pocket and was trying to remove it... but that is all speculative and irrelevant.  YES, irrelevant.  That is why you got me angry. 

 

It's possible. It's also possible that I'm actually Bill Gates or that you are actually the Dalai Lama. Hell, it's possible that none of this matters because we are nothing but a computer simulation. The point is that there's no evidence that can be used to prove any of that. This is actually why you have to prove guilt, not innocence. It is impossible in almost all cases to prove innocence. It is only possible to reasonably prove guilt when it actually exists. The fact is that the police wouldn't have tackled him or even slammed him into the car had he never become combative in the first place. Please, stop making stuff up and base your opinion on facts, not conjecture or made up scenarios. And you keep disregarding the fact that the police were only there because some individual called the cops complaining about Alton brandishing a firearm, why do you keep "forgetting" this?

 

 

46 minutes ago, stconquest said:

The gun, which I do believe was in that pocket (I agree with you), does not even matter.  At no point in the video could you see anything that could be depicted as a threat to the officer's lives... at least to a rational, perceptive mind.  The cops had advantage through the whole video, and used that position to execute him.

 

I can tell that Alton was struggling for his right arm to not be restrained and trying to keep it at his right side. We both agree that there was a firearm in his pocket, and it is obvious that he was being combative. If you are in an altercation with a combative individual who is not complying with you, and you know he has a firearm, and so do you, what are you going to do to protect yourself? Sit and wait to see if he shoots you? Or do everything in your power to save your own life?
 

 

49 minutes ago, stconquest said:

One officer on each arm means he can't reach for anything.  Get it?  One officer on each arm means he is not a threat to their lives.

Except for one problem: His right arm was only restrained for all of a part of a second. Please pause this video at 5 seconds in and play it forward from there at .25 speed. Pay close attention to Alton's chest.

 

 

52 minutes ago, stconquest said:

I apologize for going off on you.  I should not have.  You are just expressing your point of view.

 

Apology accepted. I know we have some very strong disagreements about this incident, but I think if we both just calm down and discuss it with civility then we can both learn and reach new conclusions about what happened in this instance. 

For the record, I don't blindly believe that police are always correct: the altercation that resulted in Philando Castile's death is clearly an act of brutality, and no evidence I have seen thus far has pointed in any other direction.
 

[Misanthrope]

8 minutes ago, straight_stewie said:

Except for one problem: His right arm was only restrained for all of a part of a second. Please pause this video at 5 seconds in and play it forward from there at .25 speed. Pay close attention to Alton's chest.

Why did the cop hessitated then? You can clearly see he first pulls out the gun to threaten, not to shoot. Then seemingly consciously decides "To hell with this guy" and blasts him.

 

If it was legitimate defense and you already have the guy under control and you're already aiming your gun at the guy you could at least wait until he does a clear move to get his gun which he didn't imho.

[straight_stewie]

5 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

If it was legitimate defense and you already have the guy under control and you're already aiming your gun at the guy you could at least wait until he does a clear move to get his gun which he didn't imho.

We can't know if he did or not because we cannot see Alton's right arm during most of the video. Ultimately every statement about that part of the story that is based on the publicly available videos is nothing but conjecture. I would rather accuse a dead man who was being combative and who did have a firearm of trying to shoot a police officer than wrongly accuse a living person of cold-blooded murder because, ultimately whatever happens isn't going to affect Alton in any way. I would only accuse the officers of acting inappropriately if there is clear evidence of such, and to me, there isn't. 

Put simply, there really isn't a way to know who was right and who was wrong because the camera couldn't see everything. Everything that everyone says on the subject (including myself) is nothing but conjecture based upon ones own values and beliefs. 

[stconquest]

3 minutes ago, straight_stewie said:

The problem with this statement is that the video only begins after Alton started resisting. We have no idea how the officers initially conducted themselves. 

You see it as unjustified resisting.  Let's break this down:  You are not breaking the law.  Officers approach you and begin to act aggressively.  They throw you onto a hood of a car.  They fucking taze you.  They throw you to another hood of another card and tackle you to the ground.  You are okay with this.  You don't know what else happened or even if this was the actual order of events that occurred.  Okay. 

 

3 minutes ago, straight_stewie said:

 

Yes they did. They did things in the right order too. When he initially started resisting, they banged him into a car (which is extremely common). At which time he became combative, so they tased him. This did nothing so they tackled him. That's the correct order to apply necessary force: Least to most.

If you don't know how the officers conducted themselves, by your previous statement, why this?

 

3 minutes ago, straight_stewie said:

It's possible. It's also possible that I'm actually Bill Gates or that you are actually the Dalai Lama. Hell, it's possible that none of this matters because we are nothing but a computer simulation. The point is that there's no evidence that can be used to prove any of that. This is actually why you have to prove guilt, not innocence. It is impossible in almost all cases to prove innocence. It is only possible to reasonably prove guilt when it actually exists. The fact is that the police wouldn't have tackled him or even slammed him into the car had he never become combative in the first place. Please, stop making stuff up and base your opinion on facts, not conjecture or made up scenarios. And you keep disregarding the fact that the police were only there because some individual called the cops complaining about Alton brandishing a firearm, why do you keep "forgetting" this?

You think planting evidence is funny?  You think it is not in the realm of possibility?  You got some more of what you are smoking?  Sharing is caring man.

 

Dude, nothing he had in his pocket justified the execution.  Not a .22, not a RPG, nothing.  I am not the one "analyzing" the video to play make believe.  You are assuming the cops are good guys.  They just fucking shot this guy 6 times after beating and tazing him.

 

Can you link the source that claims the 911 call involved an accusation of this man pointing a gun at another person?  Did the police see a gun when they arrived? 

3 minutes ago, straight_stewie said:

 

I can tell that Alton was struggling for his right arm to not be restrained and trying to keep it at his right side. We both agree that there was a firearm in his pocket, and it is obvious that he was being combative. If you are in an altercation with a combative individual who is not complying with you, and you know he has a firearm, and so do you, what are you going to do to protect yourself? Sit and wait to see if he shoots you? Or do everything in your power to save your own life?

Fucking terrible cops.  Pussy ass motherfuckers.  Not worth the weight of their fucking badges.  See how I feel about it?  Good thing I have some control of my rational mind.

 

3 minutes ago, straight_stewie said:

Except for one problem: His right arm was only restrained for all of a part of a second. Please pause this video at 5 seconds in and play it forward from there at .25 speed. Pay close attention to Alton's chest.

Waste of two badges?  See what I think?  Why did they even draw their weapons and point?  Sorry buddy, there was no credible threat... you are in fantasyland.

3 minutes ago, straight_stewie said:

Apology accepted. I know we have some very strong disagreements about this incident, but I think if we both just calm down and discuss it with civility then we can both learn and reach new conclusions about what happened in this instance. 

For the record, I don't blindly believe that police are always correct: the altercation that resulted in Philando Castile's death is clearly an act of brutality, and no evidence I have seen thus far has pointed in any other direction.
 

I know my post is full of anger, but I am representing my thoughts honestly.  They are terrible cops for mishandling this man.  They are terrible for drawing their weapons.  There was no immediate threat.  If you try to make that case... I respond by calling them unfit to be officers.

[Misanthrope]

2 minutes ago, straight_stewie said:

We can't know if he did or not because we cannot see Alton's right arm during most of the video. Ultimately every statement about that part of the story that is based on the publicly available videos is nothing but conjecture. I would rather accuse a dead man who was being combative and who did have a firearm of trying to shoot a police officer than wrongly accuse a living person of murder because, ultimately whatever happens isn't going to affect Alton in any way. I would only accuse the officers of acting inappropriately if there is clear evidence of such, and to me, there isn't. 

Put simply, there really isn't a way to know who was right and who was wrong because the camera couldn't see everything. Everything that everyone says on the subject (including myself) is nothing but conjecture based upon ones own values and beliefs. 

The video seems pretty conclusive and yet we know how this will go down in court: They will value the Word of a police officer more than video evidence. There won't be exhonerating video evidence that shows a clear intention to pull out his gun. It's enough for a cop says it doesn't shows on video but it did happen to send them straight back into more controversial arrests and shootings.

 

You can say that all of my previous paragraph is all conjecture anyway. You might be right but I think that if you were concerned about clearing your name, as a police department you'd demand body cameras for every single fucking officer out there, period.

 

But if the law and judicial system and the courts are set in such a way that you don't really have to show conclusive evidence to exhonerate cops, then whenever or not you actually have malicious intentions to not demand said evidence is recorded and made public is enough to be morally complicit in my opinion.

[Tech_Dreamer]

makings of chaos about to happen, at the end everyone's gonna point at the other saying they started it

[stconquest]

2 minutes ago, Tech_Dreamer said:

makings of chaos about to happen, at the end everyone's gonna point at the other saying they started it

These communities are pushed to their breaking point.  I did not even know about the police shootings in my earlier posts.  I am not surprised.  How do you normalize life for children affected by this shit? 

[straight_stewie]

@Misanthrope @stconquest Let me say my final words on this subject here. I'm unfollowing and will no longer respond to any comments on this thread, it is going no where and it is very clear that no one is willing to accept anything other than statements that coincide with what they already believe (including myself).

 

9 minutes ago, straight_stewie said:

 

13 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

If it was legitimate defense and you already have the guy under control and you're already aiming your gun at the guy you could at least wait until he does a clear move to get his gun which he didn't imho.

We can't know if he did or not because we cannot see Alton's right arm during most of the video. Ultimately every statement about that part of the story that is based on the publicly available videos is nothing but conjecture. I would rather accuse a dead man who was being combative and who did have a firearm of trying to shoot a police officer than wrongly accuse a living person of cold-blooded murder because, ultimately whatever happens isn't going to affect Alton in any way. I would only accuse the officers of acting inappropriately if there is clear evidence of such, and to me, there isn't. 

Put simply, there really isn't a way to know who was right and who was wrong because the camera couldn't see everything. Everything that everyone says on the subject (including myself) is nothing but conjecture based upon ones own values and beliefs. 

 

There it is: WE CAN'T KNOW. There is simply not enough evidence in the video to fully decide everything that occurred. I choose to believe that the police officers were in the right because, had I been conducting myself professionally in their shoes and were forced into a similar altercation, I would make the same actions. If it comes down to an unnecessary choice between life and death, any reasonable person will choose life. Yall choose to believe something else. Maybe you would have let Alton shoot you, maybe not. IDK. What I do know is that I have not seen any undoubtable evidence that the officers actions should be considered murder; I have not seen any undoubtable evidence that Alton was going to shoot them. Ultimately Alton Brown chose, by not complying with officers of the law and becoming combative, to knowingly enter into a fight for life and death, a fight which he lost. The appropriate method to fight police wrongdoing is to take your initial punishment and find a lawyer. I may not know how to stop institutionalized violence, should it be occurring, but I know that responding to violence with violence is not the solution. That creates rifts in relations and always leads to war, either politically or physically.

It is ultimately because of the above values, and others, that I have chosen that while I do not know with reasonable certainty who was right and who was wrong in this case, I believe that the officers acted correctly. 

[Tech_Dreamer]

10 minutes ago, stconquest said:

These communities are pushed to their breaking point.  I did not even know about the police shootings in my earlier posts.  I am not surprised.  How do you normalize life for children affected by this shit? 

mostly somewhat mildly heavy events like these will be reduced to stories of stereotyping & ensuring it stays that way in their own communities , wont change things much except make them more alert maybe in a  right way or the wrong way , but making themselves a target is a bad thing , i think the actual legit good cops might get targeted later as a retaliation, which is sad

[stconquest]

Ninja Quote, to not bug Mr Stewie:

 

"There it is: WE CAN'T KNOW. There is simply not enough evidence in the video to fully decide everything that occurred. I choose to believe that the police officers were in the right because, had I been conducting myself professionally in their shoes and were forced into a similar altercation, I would make the same actions. If it comes down to an unnecessary choice between life and death, any reasonable person will choose life. Yall choose to believe something else. Maybe you would have let Alton shoot you, maybe not. IDK. What I do know is that I have not seen any undoubtable evidence that the officers actions should be considered murder; I have not seen any undoubtable evidence that Alton was going to shoot them. Ultimately Alton Brown chose, by not complying with officers of the law and becoming combative, to knowingly enter into a fight for life and death, a fight which he lost. The appropriate method to fight police wrongdoing is to take your initial punishment and find a lawyer. I may not know how to stop institutionalized violence, should it be occurring, but I know that responding to violence with violence is not the solution. That creates rifts in relations and always leads to war, either politically or physically.

It is ultimately because of the above values, and others, that I have chosen that while I do not know with reasonable certainty who was right and who was wrong in this case, I believe that the officers acted correctly."

 

Well, there we are.  A fight for life and death that Alton chose to commit to.  Yeah, I see that logic. 

 

I am sure Alton had tons of money saved for a lawyer, cause those come cheap.  Hell, the fucker had the guys from Suits on retainer... he must have forgotten. 

 

When it is Stewie's son, or father or brother... he might sing a different tune.  The officers are breathing, this man is not.  The video does not show any clear threat other than a possible gun picked from a dead man's pocket.

 

One cop on each arm.  Do not draw your weapon.  One cop on each arm.  Learn to fight.