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Nvidia's Drivers

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35 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I would assume it's mostly in C, and possibly even some assembly.

Yeah, either C or C++

Posted

Just wondering what code Nvidia's drivers are written, do they have a dedicated language that they're based off of like Java or is it literally like 1's and 0's? 

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well they don't write it literally bit by bit by hand :D 

And it's certainly not Java...

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3 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

well they don't write it literally bit by bit by hand :D 

And it's certainly not Java...

That was I guess a figure of speech, so... do you know the answer?

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3 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

well they don't write it literally bit by bit by hand :D 

And it's certainly not Java...

Wait........ it depends on the OS then right? Or at least that's what I assume, that would make sense in terms of like Hackintoshing 

 

What I assume is that they are written near the OS level, for supported OSes, could be wrong though, I'm just guessing 

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2 minutes ago, IAmLamp said:

Wait........ it depends on the OS then right? Or at least that's what I assume, that would make sense in terms of like Hackintoshing 

 

What I assume is that they are written on the OS level, could be wrong

I would assume it's mostly in C, and possibly even some assembly.

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3 hours ago, Tech Inquisition said:

Yeah, either C or C++

I think that makes the most sense and it would also depend for the OS as well. Again, this is just my assumptions. 

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1 hour ago, SageOfSpice said:

Magic and pixie dust?

nah that's mac drivers xD 

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3 hours ago, Tech Inquisition said:

Basically all OS's are coded in derivatives of C and C++

ohhhhhhhhh ok

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Nvidia's drivers are about 100 million lines of c code. No way they avoid assembler since they are device drivers but its mostly C and presumably C++ as well.

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8 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I would assume it's mostly in C, and possibly even some assembly.

I highly doubt they would use a higher level language like C++.  If there is any C++ at all, it would only be a wrapper.  When you're interfacing directly with the hardware, anything more would be too much of a performance loss.

On the other hand, there is almost definitely a lot of assembly.

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On 7/5/2016 at 8:10 AM, Yamoto42 said:

I highly doubt they would use a higher level language like C++.  If there is any C++ at all, it would only be a wrapper.  When you're interfacing directly with the hardware, anything more would be too much of a performance loss.

On the other hand, there is almost definitely a lot of assembly.

Why do you say there will be a lot of assembly? Consider that nowadays, compilers like GCC will more than likely write better assembly than a human.

On another note, essentially every game engine nowadays is written in C++.

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1 hour ago, Pinguinsan said:

Why do you say there will be a lot of assembly? Consider that nowadays, compilers like GCC will more than likely write better assembly than a human.

On another note, essentially every game engine nowadays is written in C++.

Make EVERYTHING out of "if" statements :)

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On 7/4/2016 at 11:31 PM, Tech Inquisition said:

Yeah, either C or C++

It is C++ and has Cuda integrated in it

http://docs.nvidia.com/cuda/cuda-c-programming-guide/

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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On 7/6/2016 at 5:17 PM, Pinguinsan said:

Why do you say there will be a lot of assembly? Consider that nowadays, compilers like GCC will more than likely write better assembly than a human.

On another note, essentially every game engine nowadays is written in C++.

Based on this comment I am going to assume you do not have a background in kernel development...
 

Could you please do me a favor and write a context swap in C++?  In fact how about just in C?

There are some things that just cannot be done in higher level languages.  You write the subroutines in assembly, then call them from the higher language.

 

It's not a problem of computability, it's a problem of abstraction.  I don't know if you know what vtables are, but when you start talking about OO languages, that abstraction also comes at a price.

Now, at the application layer, the...im not sure the word...but the logical model of OO programming is far easier to work with to accomplish complex tasks, making the overhead worth it from a design standpoint.  This is why you see the API's and engines developed in higher level languages.

But we're not talking about applications, we are talking about drivers.

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8 hours ago, Yamoto42 said:

Based on this comment I am going to assume you do not have a background in kernel development...
 

Could you please do me a favor and write a context swap in C++?  In fact how about just in C?

There are some things that just cannot be done in higher level languages.  You write the subroutines in assembly, then call them from the higher language.

 

It's not a problem of computability, it's a problem of abstraction.  I don't know if you know what vtables are, but when you start talking about OO languages, that abstraction also comes at a price.

Now, at the application layer, the...im not sure the word...but the logical model of OO programming is far easier to work with to accomplish complex tasks, making the overhead worth it from a design standpoint.  This is why you see the API's and engines developed in higher level languages.

But we're not talking about applications, we are talking about drivers.

https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_1.13.0/com.ibm.zos.r13.bpxbd00/rswctx.htm

 

http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/functions/makecontext.html

 

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/19469000/implementing-swapcontext-in-terms-of-getcontext-and-setcontext

 

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9268828/are-the-makecontext-swapcontext-functions-compatible-with-c

 

Literally the first four Google results for "context swap c++"

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On 7/5/2016 at 6:10 AM, Yamoto42 said:

I highly doubt they would use a higher level language like C++.  If there is any C++ at all, it would only be a wrapper.  When you're interfacing directly with the hardware, anything more would be too much of a performance loss.

On the other hand, there is almost definitely a lot of assembly.

Yeah I specifically didn't mention C++ for that reason.

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Why won't this myth of C++ somehow suffering performance loss compared to C die?

C++ is made according to the "You don't pay for what you don't use" principle. If you do not use some of the advanced (OOP) features you do not pay for it resource-wise. If you DO use advanced features then be fair and compare to a C program that has to implement the same functionality manually, C++ will come out faster in most cases.

 

You can't take a C++ program that heavily uses polymorphism for example, and then act asif an equivalent C program won't have to include a manually written lookup table or huge switch - case block to achieve the same result and probably end up slower and certainly more error prone.

 

The beauty of C++ is exactly that it has all the low level features C has, down to inline assembly, yet allows you to build abstractions on top of it, essentialy making the bridge between low and high level.

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6 minutes ago, Unimportant said:

Why won't this myth of C++ somehow suffering performance loss compared to C die?

C++ is made according to the "You don't pay for what you don't use" principle. If you do not use some of the advanced (OOP) features you do not pay for it resource-wise. If you DO use advanced features then be fair and compare to a C program that has to implement the same functionality manually, C++ will come out faster in most cases.

 

You can't take a C++ program that heavily uses polymorphism for example, and then act asif an equivalent C program won't have to include a manually written lookup table or huge switch - case block to achieve the same result and probably end up slower and certainly more error prone.

 

The beauty of C++ is exactly that it has all the low level features C has, down to inline assembly, yet allows you to build abstractions on top of it, essentialy making the bridge between low and high level.

It is nice, but my theory is just that, for a driver, they won't be using any of the higher fancy stuff - be it the inherent C++ way, or a manually coded way in C

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3 hours ago, Pinguinsan said:

https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_1.13.0/com.ibm.zos.r13.bpxbd00/rswctx.htm

 

http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/functions/makecontext.html

 

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/19469000/implementing-swapcontext-in-terms-of-getcontext-and-setcontext

 

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9268828/are-the-makecontext-swapcontext-functions-compatible-with-c

 

Literally the first four Google results for "context swap c++"

I'm going to assume you didn't read any of those.  None of them implement a context swap.  They all call subroutines that perform the context swap.

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