High vs low impedence

[piplupgao]

for example will there be a difference in sound quality between this and this assuming I can power them sufficiently

[Godlygamer23]

Impedance only describes resistance. It doesn't describe how good the headphones are.

[prolemur]

well both of those headphones are pretty good, right?

[piplupgao]

Impedance only describes resistance. It doesn't describe how good the headphones are.

so why does the second one even exist

[Godlygamer23]

I don't really know.

[piplupgao]

I don't really know.

okay then... @ShearMe @MayflowerElectronics care to shed some light on this

[niksuto]

so why does the second one even exist

the second one exists because if you have a higher resistance you use more power to drive it. which in the end will let less interference mess with the signal.

you overpower the interference so much that you won't be able to hear it(or barely) 

[Mogwai]

There is really no quality difference, benefits of low impedance for most people is portable use because they are much easier to power versus high impedance headphones. Also high impedance headphones are mainly used in studio applications where there are multiple headphones wired in parallel from a signal input signal. 

 

So in all there is no quality difference, but depending on your personal usage and scenario there are benefits to both low impedance or high impedance.

[helping]

for example will there be a difference in sound quality between this and this assuming I can power them sufficiently

There are benefits to high impedance headphones. Most high impedance headphones will sound better (cleaner, more detailed, less distortion) than a low impedance version. Higher impedance headphones will require more voltage to power, ergo you need an amp capable of powering headphones at higher voltages. Low impedance headphones are usually made for laptops or portable electronics which might be able to supply the current needed but not necessarily at the resistance load and voltage demand.

 

Logically, at lower resistance it is easier to provide higher mW and at higher resistance it becomes more difficult (higher voltage) to supply the same amount of mW. At very high impedance you will be looking to spend money in a quality amp or tube amp.

 

There are also differences in frequency responses at different impedance ratings. As a control you can probably compare an 80Ohm DT 770 and a 250 Ohm DT 770. They will not sound the same, they are physically different in the copper coils of the voice coil, with smaller coils (you guessed it) having higher electrical resistance. With a smaller gauge of copper used in the voice coil, it becomes easier to move in a precise fashion, but more difficult to power by the fact that the coil is smaller and has higher resistance due to its small size.

 

Googled some stuff quickly, but somewhat relevant

 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparison-beyerdynamic-dt-880-32-ohm-dt-880-250-ohm-and-dt-880-600-ohm-headphones-page-2

 

 

 

From Beyerdynamic's own website: http://www.beyerdynamic-es.com/europe.beyerdynamic.com/service/faqs/faq-for-headphones.html

Under "What is Impedance" tab.

High impedance (over 300 ohms): connection to high-quality headphone amplifiers. Higher impedance = better sound = higher power requirements.

[Guest]

Most high impedance headphones will sound better (cleaner, more detailed, less distortion) than a low impedance version. 

Are you saying that for headphones or speakers in general? 

[piplupgao]

Are you saying that for headphones or speakers in general?

never mind

[ShearMe]

for example will there be a difference in sound quality between this and this assuming I can power them sufficiently

 

There is a difference in sound between different ohm'd Beyerdynamic headphones but whether or not a human can hear those differences is unknown/debatable. The different sound signature is not necessarily (definitely not entirely) due to the difference in impedance.

[helping]

Are you saying that for headphones or speakers in general?

Speakers in general would be a different case. The receiver or amp would only function properly under correct impedance loads. Sure it might work, but at too low of an impedance it might demand too much power and overheat the amplifier, and at too high of an ohm value it might not be loud enough. Your only choice would be to use whatever the amplifier states it can handle. Though I'm pretty sure the same characteristics carry over, where an 8ohm speaker would have less distortion and better precision than a 4 ohm one. The 4 ohm one will be easier (and cheaper) to make louder though.

 

never mind

At least let us know what helped and how you decide

[Guest]

Though I'm pretty sure the same characteristics carry over, where an 8ohm speaker would have less distortion and better precision than a 4 ohm one. The 4 ohm one will be easier (and cheaper) to make louder though.

 

At least let us know what helped and how you decide

Sorry but that just isn't true - higher imedance loads do not make a signal reproduce with better clarity. 

[helping]

Sorry but that just isn't true - higher imedance loads do not make a signal reproduce with better clarity.

In theory it should, I'm not entirely sure hence the disclaimer. It does not necessarily dictate quality that a 4 ohm would be inferior to an 8 ohm, but if there were two different ohm versions of the same I might be inclined to believe the higher ohm variant would be better if not sound slightly different?

[Guest]

In theory it should, I'm not entirely sure hence the disclaimer.

In practise it's completely false.

[helping]

In practise it's completely false.

Then I stand correct, I'm not very knowledgeable in HT applications.

[ShearMe]

There are benefits to high impedance headphones. Most high impedance headphones will sound better (cleaner, more detailed, less distortion) than a low impedance version.

...

From Beyerdynamic's own website: http://www.beyerdynamic-es.com/europe.beyerdynamic.com/service/faqs/faq-for-headphones.html

Under "What is Impedance" tab.

 

I think this is due to the fact that most high impedance headphones are better designed than most low impedance headphones, and not dirrectly related to the impedance of the headphones themselves.

 

And you know that quote from Beyerdynamic is wrong. Reference: "Higher impedance = better sound = higher power requirements."

 

Higher Impedance != Higher Power Requirements

Higher Power Requirements != Better Sound

 

By your own clear understanding, higher impedance requires higher voltage to reach any given power level.

I think we all know more power does not equal better sound.  :lol:

[helping]

I think this is due to the fact that most high impedance headphones are better designed than most low impedance headphones, and not dirrectly related to the impedance of the headphones themselves.

 

And you know that quote from Beyerdynamic is wrong. Reference: "Higher impedance = better sound = higher power requirements."

 

Higher Impedance != Higher Power Requirements

Higher Power Requirements != Better Sound

 

By your own clear understanding, higher impedance requires higher voltage to reach any given power level.

I think we all know more power does not equal better sound.  :lol:

I think I did not reply clearly. I'm referring to the difference between the same headphones with different ohm spec, not generally in comparison between differing ohms of competing headphones. I know the 80ohm version has a different design, I'm not sure about the 32 ohm and 250 ohm.

 

Beyer might also be having the same oversimplification issue of dubbing voltage as power, it's technically incorrect but I see what they're getting at.

[ShearMe]

I think I did not reply clearly. I'm referring to the difference between the same headphones with different ohm spec, not generally in comparison between differing ohms of competing headphones. I know the 80ohm version has a different design, I'm not sure about the 32 ohm and 250 ohm.

 

Beyer might also be having the same oversimplification issue of dubbing voltage as power, it's technically incorrect but I see what they're getting at.

 

Theoretically, I don't think there's a difference in sound if you just up the impedance of any given headphone. I had this debate a while ago in another thread, and did quite a bit of googling, but couldn't find  no maths to show a difference between two coils which have the same density, take up the same space, but have different impedances. I'd love to see some clear evidence to prove me right or wrong if anyone can find it.

 

In reality, changing the impedance means changing the voice coil which would have an effect on the way a woofer behaves simply due to the difference in weight and volume of the copper. The different ohm'd versions of any given Beyerdynamic headphone have entirely different drivers, so it's really not fair to call them the same headphone. 

[h264]

In the old days, you needed a high impedance driver to work well with older stereo receivers, but in the modern era of headphone design the goal is to produce as light a driver as possible in order to be compatible (in volume, at least) with the most devices.  So If you go back to the 1960's and look at the average impedance of headphones, it's dropped at a staggering rate from around ~1000 Ohms all the way down to ~50 Ohms today.  That's the REAL difference, progress in design.  The headphone manufacturers get a wrench thrown into this design when the high end market starts demanding compatible headphones for their old-school class-A single ended vacuum tube headphone amplifiers, though.  Sennheiser made the HD800 a 300 Ohm headphone not because it was the best solution, but because it was a compromise for the demands of the high-end market that might actually buy this headphone (yes, that's right, LIGHTER drivers would have produced a better headphone according to Sennheiser!).  Beyerdynamic just made more headphone versions out of their three designs.

 

 

The different ohm'd versions of any given Beyerdynamic headphone have entirely different drivers, so it's really not fair to call them the same headphone. 

 

I was always under the understanding the only real difference was the number of winds around the transducer's core.  Or else their sound signatures would be much more different if the diaphragms and transducers were "entirely different".  Well, I guess you COULD redesign each one and try to voice them the same, but I doubt Beyerdynamic re-invented the wheel for each of them.  Even the people who like to say all their purchases make worlds of difference don't seem to notice much difference between the different impedance versions.

[ShearMe]

I was always under the understanding the only real difference was the number of winds around the transducer's core.  Or else their sound signatures would be much more different if the diaphragms and transducers were "entirely different".  Well, I guess you COULD redesign each one and try to voice them the same, but I doubt Beyerdynamic re-invented the wheel for each of them.  Even the people who like to say all their purchases make worlds of difference don't seem to notice much difference between the different impedance versions.

 

I've heard mixed things and nothing conclusive as to how much of the driver is redesigned per the difference in ohms, but I did say previously that the difference is unlikely to be heard by the human ear. 

[mr moose]

Theoretically, I don't think there's a difference in sound if you just up the impedance of any given headphone. I had this debate a while ago in another thread, and did quite a bit of googling, but couldn't find  no maths to show a difference between two coils which have the same density, take up the same space, but have different impedances. I'd love to see some clear evidence to prove me right or wrong if anyone can find it.

 

In reality, changing the impedance means changing the voice coil which would have an effect on the way a woofer behaves simply due to the difference in weight and volume of the copper. The different ohm'd versions of any given Beyerdynamic headphone have entirely different drivers, so it's really not fair to call them the same headphone. 

 

I dare say you'd need to scroll through EE manuals to find the info your looking for.  The part that determins impedance is the crossectional size of the copper and the total length of copper in the coil.  After that the diametre of the coil and it's position relative to the magnet plus the strength of the magnet dictate the impedance curve. 

 

The argument for more impedance equating to better quality would come from the fact that more turns in the VC means better cone control and a side effect of more turns is higher impedance.