AMD Zen to Bring Greater than 40% IPC Increase, New Reports Suggests

[patrickjp93]

The US government wouldn't allow that you realise? Even though China is what keeps the US afloat ATM.

Oh please, the U.S. is keeping China afloat. Without our consumer market the Chinese economy would utterly collapse. And China hasn't lent the country money in...6 years?

[SurvivorNVL]

The US government wouldn't allow that you realise? Even though China is what keeps the US afloat ATM.

With luck our economy will be crashing soon, like it should have seven years ago.  We'll finally see the value of things, and then we'll have the capability to finally get out of this rut and move ahead.  

[Psykomantis00]

The US government wouldn't allow that you realise? Even though China is what keeps the US afloat ATM.

The government has no say in who buys a company unless it would create a monopoly. You realize this right? 

[SurvivorNVL]

I have nothing against AMD. What I have is well-founded doubt that it will ever recover to the point it can be a strong enough force to be the competition consumers want. The leadership isn't there, and neither is the vision. There's only repetition of past endeavors and amateur mistakes being made left and right. And Jim Keller is good, but he's been playing the mobile game for a decade. The same could be said of Raja Koduri. And Nvidia and Intel won't just slouch. The moment AMD actually becomes competitive, they'll leap forward and wipe out AMD's progress in the best case. In the worst case on the CPU side Intel's already much closer to theoretical performance limits than anyone else, and every baby step forward is more and more expensive. On the GPU side, Nvidia could afford to drop prices into the floor to wipe out AMD's financial gains.

 

AMD is too vulnerable no matter how you slice up 2016. I do not see it being viable, decent competition long-term. People should take me seriously because I'm articulate, objective, well-reasoned, and fair. The one downside? I'm blunt and very stubborn until you present evidence to the contrary.

I can attest that you've slammed nVidia plenty of times.  And you did predict IBM has 10-15 years left or something along those lines at one point.  You do favor Intel, but that's all because they're the most ahead of anyone else, they're innovating constantly, and they've the engineers on all fronts that're world class(Or you -really- like their theme.  Ding!).  I personally hope that AMD can make some miracle happen, but honestly that is almost always dwarfed by the thought of Intel and nVidia going for the kill against one another in beautiful competition and innovation. 

[patrickjp93]

The government has no say in who buys a company unless it would create a monopoly. You realize this right? 

Oh yes it does. The U.S. would never allow x86 or x86_64 to become the sole property of a foreign firm, plain and simple. It's a national security interest.

[TechGod]

This 40% increase is probably still slower than current gen intel cpu's. When AMD is bought out by a Chinese company we will finally see some improvements.

No. IT ISNT!!!

[patrickjp93]

With luck our economy will be crashing soon, like it should have seven years ago.  We'll finally see the value of things, and then we'll have the capability to finally get out of this rut and move ahead.  

There are no solid indicators that the U.S. economy is nearing a big recession. The USD is also strengthening at a high pace against the rest of the world. Falling oil prices are also lowering travel costs which invites more travel. There's no reason for the U.S. economy to slow down right now. And there's no need for any collapse at all if it's handled correctly.

[patrickjp93]

No. IT ISNT!!!

By actual calculations that are proven correct, yes it is slower clock for clock. The only remaining question is clock speed, core count, and thread launching overhead. Jim Keller is no God and even IBM and Oracle haven't been able to outclass Intel anywhere but a couple niche workloads in business analytics, and that advantage disappears with Skylake E5/7 for 2 reasons: AVX 512 doubles the compute power per core, and Intel is moving to 4-way SMT for enterprise hardware. In other words, what made Power 8 so strong at scale-up workloads (8 threads per core vs. 2) is now going to be made a non-factor.

[SurvivorNVL]

By actual calculations that are proven correct, yes it is slower clock for clock. The only remaining question is clock speed, core count, and thread launching overhead. Jim Keller is no God and even IBM and Oracle haven't been able to outclass Intel anywhere but a couple niche workloads in business analytics, and that advantage disappears with Skylake E5/7 for 2 reasons: AVX 512 doubles the compute power per core, and Intel is moving to 4-way SMT for enterprise hardware. In other words, what made Power 8 so strong at scale-up workloads (8 threads per core vs. 2) is now going to be made a non-factor.

I believe it was Magetank who said that the expectation is for AVX3 / 512 to be present in Skylake-E, right?  Or do you think we'll see it as soon as the Z2xx chipset with Kaby?

[patrickjp93]

I believe it was Magetank who said that the expectation is for AVX3 / 512 to be present in Skylake-E, right?  Or do you think we'll see it as soon as the Z2xx chipset with Kaby?

I don't know about Skylake-E as it's still a consumer/prosumer part. It will definitely be in the E5/E7 Xeons.

[SurvivorNVL]

I don't know about Skylake-E as it's still a consumer/prosumer part. It will definitely be in the E5/E7 Xeons.

And that is so close, right around the corner.. man.  2017 is just not here soon enough.

[HalGameGuru]

Oh yes it does. The U.S. would never allow x86 or x86_64 to become the sole property of a foreign firm, plain and simple. It's a national security interest.

You presume the government would care either way and not simply make use of the tech anyways. State entities are sociopathic, keeping it from happening makes things easier for them, but if they don't get their way up front they just skew things after the fact. By violence or by graft. National Security would be a rallying cry for it but its all about protecting their own financial interests.

[Psykomantis00]

Oh yes it does. The U.S. would never allow x86 or x86_64 to become the sole property of a foreign firm, plain and simple. It's a national security interest.

:rolleyes: Chinese companies buy US companies all the time. This is no different. They don't have government or military contracts as far as I know. That would be the only thing preventing such a sale. I would like to see Apple buy them up, or maybe Sony/Microsoft. Someone with the capitol to push for real innovation. 

[SurvivorNVL]

:rolleyes: Chinese companies buy US companies all the time. This is no different. They don't have government or military contracts as far as I know. That would be the only thing preventing such a sale. I would like to see Apple buy them up, or maybe Sony/Microsoft. Someone with the capitol to push for real innovation. 

Apple needs to buy Tesla, make Elon Musk the CEO, and then buy AMD.   Best plan.

[HalGameGuru]

Apple needs to buy Tesla, make Elon Musk the CEO, and then buy AMD.   Best plan.

I'd hate to see AMD products with Apple pricing. But, maybe AMD being the underdog contender they'd price competitively and BUILD it into an Apple scale brand. Still wouldn't like the prices but I could accept the upward market mobility, and some better competition.

[SurvivorNVL]

I'd hate to see AMD products with Apple pricing. But, maybe AMD being the underdog contender they'd price competitively and BUILD it into an Apple scale brand. Still wouldn't like the prices but I could accept the upward market mobility, and some better competition.

They'd likely price competitively, I am sure.  It's a new market, and they'd be having to win over many, many entities beyond just consumers / prosumers and enthusiasts.  They'd probably push for enterprise, and integrating AMD technologies in to their own R&D fields.  God.. imagine the patent assimilation.

[patrickjp93]

You presume the government would care either way and not simply make use of the tech anyways. State entities are sociopathic, keeping it from happening makes things easier for them, but if they don't get their way up front they just skew things after the fact. By violence or by graft. National Security would be a rallying cry for it but its all about protecting their own financial interests.

It would. Intel is a chief economic driver for the U.S., and it's also a huge political donor.

 

:rolleyes: Chinese companies buy US companies all the time. This is no different. They don't have government or military contracts as far as I know. That would be the only thing preventing such a sale. I would like to see Apple buy them up, or maybe Sony/Microsoft. Someone with the capitol to push for real innovation. 

This is enormously different. Most of those companies are quite small and don't have much of an effect on the economy.

 

Uh, Intel has more military contracts than HP does. Did you know all those drones run on Intel hardware? If a Chinese entity could force Intel to stop production on U.S. soil by owning the rights to x86_64, it would have extreme effects on the economy and the world position of the U.S.. AMD is better dead than owned by a foreign company as far as the U.S. is concerned.

[Psykomantis00]

It would. Intel is a chief economic driver for the U.S., and it's also a huge political donor.

 

This is enormously different. Most of those companies are quite small and don't have much of an effect on the economy.

 

Uh, Intel has more military contracts than HP does. Did you know all those drones run on Intel hardware? If a Chinese entity could force Intel to stop production on U.S. soil by owning the rights to x86_64, it would have extreme effects on the economy and the world position of the U.S.. AMD is better dead than owned by a foreign company as far as the U.S. is concerned.

That's great, but it isn't how business works. Big bank takes little bank. 

[HalGameGuru]

It would. Intel is a chief economic driver for the U.S., and it's also a huge political donor.

 

This is enormously different. Most of those companies are quite small and don't have much of an effect on the economy.

 

Uh, Intel has more military contracts than HP does. Did you know all those drones run on Intel hardware? If a Chinese entity could force Intel to stop production on U.S. soil by owning the rights to x86_64, it would have extreme effects on the economy and the world position of the U.S.. AMD is better dead than owned by a foreign company as far as the U.S. is concerned.

Selling them our Rare Earth mining concerns certainly did.

 

And once again, if someone else owns x86_64 and the state doesn't like it... who enforces that? The state. What right does anyone have to anything that is not corporeal without the backing of the state's guns? The US Government is going to hold anyone to the rights of x86_64 if someone they don't like owns it? The only thing stopping anyone from making use of it as it is is access to the US market. If the Chinese had need of that for anything they wanted to do internally they'd make use of it right now with no granted access to the IP and no second thoughts.

[Dabombinable]

Oh please, the U.S. is keeping China afloat. Without our consumer market the Chinese economy would utterly collapse. And China hasn't lent the country money in...6 years?

The US Government borrows money from China so yeah....China is keeping the US afloat, and the US is one of the countries helping China's economy.

[Trixanity]

Maybe you can just agree that it's mutual. They keep each other afloat.

[Jahramika]

I have nothing against AMD. What I have is well-founded doubt that it will ever recover to the point it can be a strong enough force to be the competition consumers want. The leadership isn't there, and neither is the vision. There's only repetition of past endeavors and amateur mistakes being made left and right. And Jim Keller is good, but he's been playing the mobile game for a decade. The same could be said of Raja Koduri. And Nvidia and Intel won't just slouch. The moment AMD actually becomes competitive, they'll leap forward and wipe out AMD's progress in the best case. In the worst case on the CPU side Intel's already much closer to theoretical performance limits than anyone else, and every baby step forward is more and more expensive. On the GPU side, Nvidia could afford to drop prices into the floor to wipe out AMD's financial gains.

 

AMD is too vulnerable no matter how you slice up 2016. I do not see it being viable, decent competition long-term. People should take me seriously because I'm articulate, objective, well-reasoned, and fair. The one downside? I'm blunt and very stubborn until you present evidence to the contrary.

What the heck US Government should give them a 20 billion dollar load and then mandate all military branched have to use AMD product like they do for Ford, Chrysler and GM.

[patrickjp93]

That's great, but it isn't how business works. Big bank takes little bank.

Unless government says no.

[patrickjp93]

Selling them our Rare Earth mining concerns certainly did.

And once again, if someone else owns x86_64 and the state doesn't like it... who enforces that? The state. What right does anyone have to anything that is not corporeal without the backing of the state's guns? The US Government is going to hold anyone to the rights of x86_64 if someone they don't like owns it? The only thing stopping anyone from making use of it as it is is access to the US market. If the Chinese had need of that for anything they wanted to do internally they'd make use of it right now with no granted access to the IP and no second thoughts.

They already do. The company is called Huawei.

[patrickjp93]

The US Government borrows money from China so yeah....China is keeping the US afloat, and the US is one of the countries helping China's economy.

No. All loans from China stopped years ago. It's all Federal Reserve now.