AMD 2014-2015 roadmap update

[Kuzma]

I disagree. In order for AMD to have superior integer processing FX-4350 should be faster than i5 3570 or better yet Haswell 4670.

 

I want to see it hahahahahah.

 

You're comparing 8 cores to 4 cores (FX 8350 vs i5 3570k). Now throw in a Xeon 8 core from intel there. And tell me core-to-core AMD has faster processing

Read the chart, the 8 core is outperforming the 6 core and the Athlon x4 is outperforming the 2500k; fair enough for you?

[Dravic]

Read the chart, the 8 core is outperforming the 6 core and the Athlon x4 is outperforming the 2500k; fair enough for you?

That is Sandy Bridge Extreme, look how I5 Ivy stacks on top of i5 Sandy. Huge improvements. So i want tests of Ivy Bridge Extreme vs FX. ;P

[Dravic]

Read the chart, the 8 core is outperforming the 6 core and the Athlon x4 is outperforming the 2500k; fair enough for you?

 

I can definitely see how FX wins AIDA64 benchmarks.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FouDRt4P10w&feature=youtu.be

[Kuzma]

That is Sandy Bridge Extreme, look how I5 Ivy stacks on top of i5 Sandy. Huge improvements. So i want tests of Ivy Bridge Extreme vs FX. ;P

huge improvements, funny it's about 10-15% in a perfect situation; I think you're just hoping that Intel come out on top >_> you're really hating these APUs aren't you?

 

I can definitely see how FX wins AIDA64 benchmarks.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FouDRt4P10w&feature=youtu.be

Also a random benchmark with less than 10 views on it from someone that may or may not be the most creditable is not a good source...

[JujuShinobi]

however keeping AMD alive also allows them to keep their prices high since many countries have anti-monopoly laws.

 

Thunderbolt is an amazing thing, I was personally not too fussed about it until I tried it out myself (found out I had a Thunderbolt port ) and I was seriously impressed with it; it's one of those technologies you have to use in order to truly appreciate.

 

HSA stands for Heterogeneous System Architecture, Accelerated Processing Units (APUs) are indeed Heterogeneous system architectures because that is what allows them to be accelerated, the integrated GPU, so by very definition they are classed as HSA and they are indeed certified as being compliant with the required specifications.

 

Their module system is actually very powerful and is actually a really good move by them, it allows them to be superior in IOs to Intel (Integer Operations) while knowing that their APUs will have GPUs to act as additional FPUs (Floating Point Units) meaning that their FPOs (Floating Point Operations) will also be more powerful than Intel's because as far as I know all the APUs are more powerful than Intel's APUs (with the exception of Intel HD 5000/Iris , I'm not quite sure how those match up against all the APUs but I know they outperform the 650M so they're catching up) with AMD bringing APUs with equivalent power to the ones found in the Xbone and PS4 I think we're going to have an exciting year especially with the fact that we're going to see even more workloads shared between the CPU and the GPU in the APU; I recommend you read my thread on APUs.

 

1st. Excavator is likely going to be coming in quite a few years so it's not very logical to wait for that, Steamroller is what you should be waiting for.

2nd. Although the APUs seem to heat up a lot more due to the GPU within them I seem to recall a certain APU getting to what was it? 8 Ghz? On LN2 mind you but still higher than a lot of Intel OCs on LN2.

3. The APUs have a much higher TJ Max and as of Richland they've re-designed the OCing process, the APUs now have a GPU Boost 2.0-type system in which they can keep overclocking as long as they are under a certain temperature; given you have sufficient

Contratry to what you might think APUs weren't actually created to be a system with a CPU and GPU built into one for gaming but for processing I recommend you read my APU thread

 

APUs can match i5s performance if they received code that was programmed for them correctly please read my thread on APUs and I think you'll reconsider that thought; in Integer-based code an APU will beat an i5 any day.

Yes I have read your thread and I do have to say you are quite knowledgable. And I was planning to build the family PC with only the APU lol. Since my family doesn't game as heavy as I. And my brother still plays Runescape for some reason so yeah.

Also what you said about APUs outperforming things like GT650M is pretty much true. Tried playing MechWarrior Online on a system with an A10 w/ 1866MHz RAM and a laptop with a GT650M. Achieved better frame rate on the A10 with lesser drops. Although MechWarrior is more CPU intensive due the the physics calculations

[JujuShinobi]

Did you not understand a single thing I just said to you?

The apus are not supposed to be used for graphics or gaming they're designed to be dedicated processing for a dedicated graphics card; the internal GPU is for PROCESSING not for GAMING; AMD cpus currently are stronger than Intel CPUs for Integer-based things which is what CPUs are actually meant for; for Floating point based things which is all that Intel is ahead of AMD for as it stands, AMD have the plan to use the iGPU to process those things instead of the CPU because the iGPU will destroy anything the CPU can do in that field? Do I have to simplify it more?

Now I fully understand what you meant in your previous statement to me and what your thread meant. It seeing AMD having better performance in this sector is quite intriguing

[Kuzma]

Yes I have read your thread and I do have to say you are quite knowledgable. And I was planning to build the family PC with only the APU lol. Since my family doesn't game as heavy as I. And my brother still plays Runescape for some reason so yeah.

Also what you said about APUs outperforming things like GT650M is pretty much true. Tried playing MechWarrior Online on a system with an A10 w/ 1866MHz RAM and a laptop with a GT650M. Achieved better frame rate on the A10 with lesser drops. Although MechWarrior is more CPU intensive due the the physics calculations

Thank you , I'd recommend an APU in a family PC for sure, amazing standalone performance and if it's ever lacking; OC'ing the ram, cpu and possibly even throwing in a new GPU will give it new life; that's the nice thing about APUs, you'll never really feel like you're throwing anything away becaus even if you're not using the iGPU for gaming you can still use it for computing and other things like maybe running an additional monitor? anyway I kind of got off topic.

 

For physics calculations it depends on how it's programmed but if Mechwarrior does use Integer programming that's to be expected

[Kuzma]

Now I fully understand what you meant in your previous statement to me and what your thread meant. It seeing AMD having better performance in this sector is quite intriguing

It's like a secret plan that AMD have been working on ever since they bought ATI; it seems they bought them out after having the idea of APUs and needed a head start, most games don't really use the integer-based programming that the AMD CPUs are best for, the use of floating point performance is not something they've really had to worry about since they've known that given the need they can use GPUs to accelerate their floating point performance far greater than any CPU within reason could EVER perform.

[JujuShinobi]

Thank you , I'd recommend an APU in a family PC for sure, amazing standalone performance and if it's ever lacking; OC'ing the ram, cpu and possibly even throwing in a new GPU will give it new life; that's the nice thing about APUs, you'll never really feel like you're throwing anything away becaus even if you're not using the iGPU for gaming you can still use it for computing and other things like maybe running an additional monitor? anyway I kind of got off topic.

 

For physics calculations it depends on how it's programmed but if Mechwarrior does use Integer programming that's to be expected

APUs definitely benefit from faster RAM so having DDR4 will be a breath of fresh air for them. And I think the one thing you are sacrificing when getting an APU is the multi-threaded performance. What I mean is the ability to multi-task (livestreaming etc) But for general and maybe average use, APUs are golden (or silver considering how it looks)

[JujuShinobi]

It's like a secret plan that AMD have been working on ever since they bought ATI; it seems they bought them out after having the idea of APUs and needed a head start, most games don't really use the integer-based programming that the AMD CPUs are best for, the use of floating point performance is not something they've really had to worry about since they've known that given the need they can use GPUs to accelerate their floating point performance far greater than any CPU within reason could EVER perform.

I can see where you are coming from. However I'm not very enlightened on what kind of programs are integer-based. Forgive me if you already stated in it your thread and I skimmed over it. Also, what will this benefit be advantageous for in the future?

[Kuzma]

I can see where you are coming from. However I'm not very enlightened on what kind of programs are integer-based. Forgive me if you already stated in it your thread and I skimmed over it. Also, what will this benefit be advantageous for in the future?

Integer based operations are basically anything that doesn't involve decimals and Floating Point Operations are basically anything that does involve decimals

[Opsilon]

Did you not understand a single thing I just said to you?

The apus are not supposed to be used for graphics or gaming they're designed to be dedicated processing for a dedicated graphics card; the internal GPU is for PROCESSING not for GAMING; AMD cpus currently are stronger than Intel CPUs for Integer-based things which is what CPUs are actually meant for; for Floating point based things which is all that Intel is ahead of AMD for as it stands, AMD have the plan to use the iGPU to process those things instead of the CPU because the iGPU will destroy anything the CPU can do in that field? Do I have to simplify it more?

I have read everything you said, i understand what you mean i get it... The problem is i am talking about buying a CPU this or the next year, and i need it for gaming 1st and all else 2nd, 3rd, 4th

As a consumer that uses it for gaming  and use it for music recording i need a CPU that has a decent amount of cores with a nice IPC

I get it, APU-s are awesome, but today if you buy it right now, AND I WANT TO BUY IT NOW, not in 2 or 3 years, APU-s are pathetic for what I NEED.

My friend who does most of our audio mixing has a quad core AMD Phenom II, it eats all the cores up, having more would do a lot better.

 

I understand what AMD is trying to do with the APU-s and i have read quite a few reviews about the A10 you mentioned, and so far it can't do what you said, and i know what AMD is planing, i am aware that more optimization is needed for AMD-s plan to work? IT DOES NOT WORK NOW, you can't put a 780 in an A10-6800k and expect it to perform better than an i5 with the same GPU, don't believe me, go watch Logans review, It might work in the future if they figure out how to off load operations onto the iGPU, but today it does not work, and steamroller should not work that way too.

 

I am not the one hat needs things to be more simple, because you did not read my 1st post.

I need a strong CPU with more lanes for expansion cards, that is why FX platform or 2011 would be amazing, and i would rather take Ivy e if i can afford a quad core, than haswell, i need a strong platform for 5 years to keep, na APU will not cut it!! Because i do more than just gaming, yes 50% of the time i use it for gaming, but i need it for recording and mixing as well, for me personally right now a quad core APU is nothing, i might as well stay with my current CPU, because the APU won't help me that much to justify keeping it for 5 years, if they say an 8 or at least 6 core APU i might consider it, but there is not such thing on the map. I would waste money on an inferior CPU platform

 

Look i don't want to be rude or anything, and this will go out of hand if we continue. I know you have a lot of knowledge, but i was not born yesterday, i can read, and think, for what i need it APU is not enough. Like i said it may work in 5 years, but that should be the time for my next upgrade, if you take the IGPU from an APU it's CPU performance ( the performance i need ) is not enough, so if they improve i might go for an APU, till them i want a powerful at least mid range CPU, and i am sad that there maybe will not be another FX chip, and i will have to go intel again and i really wanted to buy an AMD system for the 1st time, my friends that have them love them and i can see why...

[Kuzma]

I have read everything you said, i understand what you mean i get it... The problem is i am talking about buying a CPU this or the next year, and i need it for gaming 1st and all else 2nd, 3rd, 4th

As a consumer that uses it for gaming  and use it for music recording i need a CPU that has a decent amount of cores with a nice IPC

I get it, APU-s are awesome, but today if you buy it right now, AND I WANT TO BUY IT NOW, not in 2 or 3 years, APU-s are pathetic for what I NEED.

My friend who does most of our audio mixing has a quad core AMD Phenom II, it eats all the cores up, having more would do a lot better.

 

I understand what AMD is trying to do with the APU-s and i have read quite a few reviews about the A10 you mentioned, and so far it can't do what you said, and i know what AMD is planing, i am aware that more optimization is needed for AMD-s plan to work? IT DOES NOT WORK NOW, you can't put a 780 in an A10-6800k and expect it to perform better than an i5 with the same GPU, don't believe me, go watch Logans review, It might work in the future if they figure out how to off load operations onto the iGPU, but today it does not work, and steamroller should not work that way too.

 

I am not the one hat needs things to be more simple, because you did not read my 1st post.

I need a strong CPU with more lanes for expansion cards, that is why FX platform or 2011 would be amazing, and i would rather take Ivy e if i can afford a quad core, than haswell, i need a strong platform for 5 years to keep, na APU will not cut it!! Because i do more than just gaming, yes 50% of the time i use it for gaming, but i need it for recording and mixing as well, for me personally right now a quad core APU is nothing, i might as well stay with my current CPU, because the APU won't help me that much to justify keeping it for 5 years, if they say an 8 or at least 6 core APU i might consider it, but there is not such thing on the map. I would waste money on an inferior CPU platform

 

Look i don't want to be rude or anything, and this will go out of hand if we continue. I know you have a lot of knowledge, but i was not born yesterday, i can read, and think, for what i need it APU is not enough. Like i said it may work in 5 years, but that should be the time for my next upgrade, if you take the IGPU from an APU it's CPU performance ( the performance i need ) is not enough, so if they improve i might go for an APU, till them i want a powerful at least mid range CPU, and i am sad that there maybe will not be another FX chip, and i will have to go intel again and i really wanted to buy an AMD system for the 1st time, my friends that have them love them and i can see why...

You never mentioned what you were going to be using an APU for you simply said they had no place in a high-end gaming rig and my argument was that they do I didn't mean to start an argument I was just saying that they do have a place in a high-end gaming rig last time I checked audio work isn't gaming.

[Opsilon]

You never mentioned what you were going to be using an APU for you simply said they had no place in a high-end gaming rig and my argument was that they do I didn't mean to start an argument I was just saying that they do have a place in a high-end gaming rig last time I checked audio work isn't gaming.

that is what i am saying i don't game only, and as an all around high end machine APU just can't cut it, and right now i still maintain that APU-s dont have a place in high end builds, but in time... that is a whole entire story.

I have read your APU post as you said and i agree APU-s are the future, and just like you said ( and the AMD CEO as well if i am not mistaking ) intel and AMD make APU-s, AMD has an edge, I must admit i have wait and see approach to things.

 

Don't get me wrong if AMD says ( but i doubt it ) 6 or 8 core APU-s next year, and 32 PCIe 3.0 lanes will buy it in a heartbeat, i need the expansion for future PCIe storage controllers and sound cards

[Kuzma]

that is what i am saying i don't game only, and as an all around high end machine APU just can't cut it, and right now i still maintain that APU-s dont have a place in high end builds, but in time... that is a whole entire story.

I have read your APU post as you said and i agree APU-s are the future, and just like you said ( and the AMD CEO as well if i am not mistaking ) intel and AMD make APU-s, AMD has an edge, I must admit i have wait and see approach to things.

 

Don't get me wrong if AMD says ( but i doubt it ) 6 or 8 core APU-s next year, and 32 PCIe 3.0 lanes will buy it in a heartbeat, i need the expansion for future PCIe storage controllers and sound cards

Dude for Audio Production I'd be looking at opterons tbh ik how fast it eats up cores ._. and ik how unstable it can become once all cores are filled; APUs aren't very good in that sense due to raw core count but we could possibly be seeing 8 core APUs soon

[greenroost1445]

Yeah, think FX 8350 level processor, with an HD 7850 level GPU built in. Heck, give them a larger socket and put some GDDR5 chips on the APU PCB. Perhaps you could crossfire to the APU in an mITX form factor case.

dat heat level...

[JujuShinobi]

Dude for Audio Production I'd be looking at opterons tbh ik how fast it eats up cores ._. and ik how unstable it can become once all cores are filled; APUs aren't very good in that sense due to raw core count but we could possibly be seeing 8 core APUs soon

If we get AMD APUs in the near future with maybe 20% greater performance than the 8350 and are 8 cores with a beast of an iGPU, Intel should start trying to dig for gold again

[Kuzma]

dat heat level...

ikr that TDP; however with the new APU technology of the GPU and CPU downclocking and upclocking to suit what is being demanded of them it allows them to run at very low power consumption while still having good performance also the TJ Max has been upped with the new APUs (Richland) and they overclock in a GPU Boost 2.0-type system where they work towards a heat level so as long as it's under that heat you can keep overclocking.

[Fetzie]

dat heat level...

Don't think it would be too bad if they spread it out a bit, one of Haswell and IB's problems is that Intel consolidated everything into an area about 5x10 mm small. Only about a tenth of the CPU PCB is silicon. Especially with advances in processing power per watt, I really don't think it'd be too bad. You'd be able to put the GPU VRM on the motherboard, and if you could make it so that the CPU component has maybe a 50-60W TDP and the GPU 90-100W, that isn't too much higher than the TDP of a stock LGA 2011 processor.

[greenroost1445]

Don't think it would be too bad if they spread it out a bit, one of Haswell and IB's problems is that Intel consolidated everything into an area about 5x10 mm small. Only about a tenth of the CPU PCB is silicon. Especially with advances in processing power per watt, I really don't think it'd be too bad. You'd be able to put the GPU VRM on the motherboard, and if you could make it so that the CPU component has maybe a 50-60W TDP and the GPU 90-100W, that isn't too much higher than the TDP of a stock LGA 2011 processor.

 

 

ikr that TDP; however with the new APU technology of the GPU and CPU downclocking and upclocking to suit what is being demanded of them it allows them to run at very low power consumption while still having good performance also the TJ Max has been upped with the new APUs (Richland) and they overclock in a GPU Boost 2.0-type system where they work towards a heat level so as long as it's under that heat you can keep overclocking.

makes sense. Thanks!

[Kuzma]

makes sense. Thanks!

No problem I post to help

[greenroost1445]

No problem I post to help

don't we all

[JujuShinobi]

All we need to do now is wait for the new shiznit from AMD to come out and see whether they make pigs fly or not. If they do, kudos to them. If not, oh well =/

[lhikary]

INTEL STILL WINS IN TH END

[lhikary]

INTEL STILL WINS IN TH END