Anyone own the RB67?

[Captain_Slow]

I'm looking into buying a Mamiya RB67, anyone own one? advice on accessories, lens, and film to buy with it?

 

also what should I look for?

[ALwin]

I'm looking into buying a Mamiya RB67, anyone own one? advice on accessories, lens, and film to buy with it?

 

also what should I look for?

 

You know you are asking this question on a forum full of tech-geeks and tech-geek-wannabes.  Fortunately there is someone who works with a similar camera system to the RB67.  Are you buying this brand new or second hand?

 

Lenses for this system are going to be mostly prime lenses, I don't think there are zoom lenses.  And the crop-factor is the reverse of APS-C or smaller sensors, so you need to take that into consideration when you choose a lens.

 

As for accessory, I'd get a shutter release cable.  These things weigh a bit more than a normal DSLR so hard to hold it steady hand held and press the shutter.

 

If you are buying it second hand, test to make sure that there are no light leaks where the film back mounts to the body or anywhere else.

 

As for film, I have used Fuji and Ilford which are both very nice.  Ilford for Black & White.  But some of the film development done by commercial developers can be a bit bland.  If you really want to bring it to full potential it is best to develop the film yourself.  Or get a good high resolution photo scanner and scan the developed film.

[Captain_Slow]

You know you are asking this question on a forum full of tech-geeks and tech-geek-wannabes.  Fortunately there is someone who works with a similar camera system to the RB67.  Are you buying this brand new or second hand?

 

Lenses for this system are going to be mostly prime lenses, I don't think there are zoom lenses.  And the crop-factor is the reverse of APS-C or smaller sensors, so you need to take that into consideration when you choose a lens.

 

As for accessory, I'd get a shutter release cable.  These things weigh a bit more than a normal DSLR so hard to hold it steady hand held and press the shutter.

 

If you are buying it second hand, test to make sure that there are no light leaks where the film back mounts to the body or anywhere else.

 

As for film, I have used Fuji and Ilford which are both very nice.  Ilford for Black & White.  But some of the film development done by commercial developers can be a bit bland.  If you really want to bring it to full potential it is best to develop the film yourself.  Or get a good high resolution photo scanner and scan the developed film.

 

do you have one? I didnt know you could still buy it new, I bought one already from ebay it's used, RB67 Pro SD with 100-200 f5.2 lens. 

I know there are different sizes of medium format, how will I know what size the 120 film will be???

[ALwin]

do you have one? I didnt know you could still buy it new, I bought one already from ebay it's used, RB67 Pro SD with 100-200 f5.2 lens. 

I know there are different sizes of medium format, how will I know what size the 120 film will be???

 

I have a Hasselblad 500C/M with 3 prime lenses, not a Mamiya.

 

No you can't buy them new, I confused the model series between the RB67 and RZ67 which were still be released as of 2004.  But seems even the RZ are no longer available new.

 

The film you use will depend on the back you have, if you have 120 film back you can use any 120 film.  If you have a 220 film back you can use 220 film.  I wouldn't go for 220 film because you need to load and unload them in darkness, because unlike 120 film which has a backing paper, 220 film doesn't.  Now the amount of frames you can get per roll of film depends on the film back because roll film is essentially one very long roll of film and it is the mechanism in the film back that determines the number of shots you can take.  For the Mamiya I believe you get about 10 exposures.

[Captain_Slow]

I have a Hasselblad 500C/M with 3 prime lenses, not a Mamiya.

 

No you can't buy them new, I confused the model series between the RB67 and RZ67 which were still be released as of 2004.  But seems even the RZ are no longer available new.

 

The film you use will depend on the back you have, if you have 120 film back you can use any 120 film.  If you have a 220 film back you can use 220 film.  I wouldn't go for 220 film because you need to load and unload them in darkness, because unlike 120 film which has a backing paper, 220 film doesn't.  Now the amount of frames you can get per roll of film depends on the film back because roll film is essentially one very long roll of film and it is the mechanism in the film back that determines the number of shots you can take.  For the Mamiya I believe you get about 10 exposures.

 

So if I use a roll of film on a 6x7 I get 10 exposures and I can use the same roll of film on a 6x6 and get potentially more exposures?

[ALwin]

So if I use a roll of film on a 6x7 I get 10 exposures and I can use the same roll of film on a 6x6 and get potentially more exposures?

 

Yes same roll film, different exposures due to the size of the window on the film back and the internal mechanism that moves the film to the next frame.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/120_film#Frame_sizes

[Captain_Slow]

so does your mf cameras have a light meter? if not how do you determine correct exposure?

[ALwin]

so does your mf cameras have a light meter? if not how do you determine correct exposure?

 

I have this, or I make an estimate based on certain rules of thumb.  The Sunny 16 for example.

 

Basically if you're outdoors on a sunny day, set your aperture to f/16 and the shutter speed should be the inverse of the film ISO.  So ISO 100 film means 1/100 shutter speed.

 

[Captain_Slow]

I have this, or I make an estimate based on certain rules of thumb.  The Sunny 16 for example.

 

 

you think i could potentially meter with my Nikon F5 and work the settings out via crop factor?

[ALwin]

you think i could potentially meter with my Nikon F5 and work the settings out via crop factor?

 

There are also light meter apps for iPhone and Android phones.  But yes you can use the meter of the F5 and depending on the amount of light in the scene perform an exposure compensation calculation.

[Captain_Slow]

There are also light meter apps for iPhone and Android phones.  But yes you can use the meter of the F5 and depending on the amount of light in the scene perform an exposure compensation calculation.

 

would I apply the crop factor to both the aperture and ISO? or just the Aperture? 

[ALwin]

would I apply the crop factor to both the aperture and ISO? or just the Aperture? 

 

Good question, I've never considered that.  I don't think you need to do that.  And the film would have more than enough dynamic range to handle at least 1-2 stops of over or under exposure.  Truthfully I don't think you need to compensate more than 1 or 2 stops from your F5's exposure value.  You could even use the F5's exposure value and it would still be OK.

 

EDIT: I think even going 1-stop exposure compensation could be too much.  Film can be a lot more forgiving than digital.  When I first got the Hasselblad I went out shooting a couple of rolls of film just to make sure the camera works... and guessing the exposure settings.  They turned out pretty much OK.

[Captain_Slow]

Good question, I've never considered that.  I don't think you need to do that.  And the film would have more than enough dynamic range to handle at least 1-2 stops of over or under exposure.  Truthfully I don't think you need to compensate more than 1 or 2 stops from your F5's exposure value.  You could even use the F5's exposure value and it would still be OK.

 

EDIT: I think even going 1-stop exposure compensation could be too much.  Film can be a lot more forgiving than digital.  When I first got the Hasselblad I went out shooting a couple of rolls of film just to make sure the camera works... and guessing the exposure settings.  They turned out pretty much OK.

 

well i was thinking of doing something like this:

 

Say the F5 meters 1/200 @ F/2.5 with ISO 400

 

and the crop factor is 0.505, 

 

this should translate to 1/200 @ F/5 with ISO 100?

 

since crop affects ISO squared?

 

or would I be under exposing 2 stops? 

[ALwin]

well i was thinking of doing something like this:

Say the F5 meters 1/200 @ F/2.5 with ISO 400

and the crop factor is 0.505,

this should translate to 1/200 @ F/5 with ISO 100?

since crop affects ISO squared?

or would I be under exposing 2 stops?

OK so you measure with the F5 using a 100m lens, and you have a 100m lens on the RB67. Just going by the numbers (ISO, shutter, f-stop) alone without taking into consideration the field of view and crop factor changes, you've lowered the exposure by 4 stops. Because you decreased both the ISO and aperture, each by 2 stops.

I really can't say what the exact exposure could be, I recommend getting a light meter app if you don't want to buy a dedicated light meter. But roughly at the top of my head you are better off using 1/12.5 shutter speed for the RB67 if the F5 is metering with the values you said and you are using ISO 100 film at f/5 for the RB67. 1/12.5 or whatever is closest will be an exact 4-stop compensation on the exposure triangle, so with the crop factor and field of view change you may be able to get away with 1/25 or 1/50.

Or stick to the sunny 16 rule.

[ALwin]

Ok about the light meter, the Sekonic I have comes with a spot meter attachment. If I use the integrating sphere, I have to take the reading by placing the meter where my subject will be standing. With a spot meter I aim at my subject and take the reading with the meter standing from where the camera is placed.

When I use me Hasselblad to take landscape photos for example, and use the spot meter I measure several points. The sky which usually gives the brightest value, and if my landscape has a lot of blacks I take a reading of the blacks, then I take a reading of what I think is somewhere in between.

If there are more shadow and dark regions in my landscape I calculate an exposure value that is more biased towards getting a good exposure for the shadows and blacks, and vice versa if I have more bright regions in the composition. I'm making judgements based on a zone system.

Light meter apps for the phone should offer both spot and incident metering.

Film photography can be so much fun.

[Captain_Slow]

OK so you measure with the F5 using a 100m lens, and you have a 100m lens on the RB67. Just going by the numbers (ISO, shutter, f-stop) alone without taking into consideration the field of view and crop factor changes, you've lowered the exposure by 4 stops. Because you decreased both the ISO and aperture, each by 2 stops.

I really can't say what the exact exposure could be, I recommend getting a light meter app if you don't want to buy a dedicated light meter. But roughly at the top of my head you are better off using 1/12.5 shutter speed for the RB67 if the F5 is metering with the values you said and you are using ISO 100 film at f/5 for the RB67. 1/12.5 or whatever is closest will be an exact 4-stop compensation on the exposure triangle, so with the crop factor and field of view change you may be able to get away with 1/25 or 1/50.

Or stick to the sunny 16 rule.

 

noo that's now what I meant, 

 

say I meter 1/1000th of a second on f2.6 and iso 400 on my nikon f5,

 

on the mamiya i'm shooting with iso 100 and f5.2 lens, what shoul my shutter be?

[Captain_Slow]

Ok about the light meter, the Sekonic I have comes with a spot meter attachment. If I use the integrating sphere, I have to take the reading by placing the meter where my subject will be standing. With a spot meter I aim at my subject and take the reading with the meter standing from where the camera is placed.

When I use me Hasselblad to take landscape photos for example, and use the spot meter I measure several points. The sky which usually gives the brightest value, and if my landscape has a lot of blacks I take a reading of the blacks, then I take a reading of what I think is somewhere in between.

If there are more shadow and dark regions in my landscape I calculate an exposure value that is more biased towards getting a good exposure for the shadows and blacks, and vice versa if I have more bright regions in the composition. I'm making judgements based on a zone system.

Light meter apps for the phone should offer both spot and incident metering.

Film photography can be so much fun.

 

lol so it's like manual matrix metering

[ALwin]

lol so it's like manual matrix metering

 

Yes, it is very similar to that.

 

noo that's now what I meant, 

 

say I meter 1/1000th of a second on f2.6 and iso 400 on my nikon f5,

 

on the mamiya i'm shooting with iso 100 and f5.2 lens, what shoul my shutter be?

 

 

Shutter speed should hypothetically be about 1/60th.

 

On your Nikon F5, if you metered with f/2.6 and ISO100 to get a shutter speed of 1/1000

On the Mamiya with ISO 100, and f5.2:

• ISO 400 to ISO 100 conversion is 2 stops lost of light
• f/2.6 to f/5.2 is approximately another 2 stops loss of light
• You need to increase your shutter speed by 4 stops which means 1/1000 to 1/60
• But because the Mamiya is a larger format, you should be able get away with using 1/80, 1/100 and 1/125 which is 1 stop faster.

There isn't a drastic differential.  Just use the basic concept of the exposure triangle and know that if you change ISO and Aperture you need to compensate by changing the shutter.

 

I mean if you were using a light meter to set your exposure and the meter told you 1/100 @ f/5.6 @ ISO 100, this would be correct for getting a good exposure on both a 35mm and medium format camera.  The light meter doesn't take into account the format of the film or sensor when performing the calculation.

 

Film has a much wider dynamic range than digital sensors that you can make a mistake and err a few stops in either direction that it won't matter.  You can later scan the developed film and edit in post.

 

Or if you want to go really old school, you can do a manual dodge and burn using the negative.

 

[Captain_Slow]

Yes, it is very similar to that.

 

 

 

Shutter speed should hypothetically be about 1/60th.

 

On your Nikon F5, if you metered with f/2.6 and ISO100 to get a shutter speed of 1/1000

On the Mamiya with ISO 100, and f5.2:

• ISO 400 to ISO 100 conversion is 2 stops lost of light
• f/2.6 to f/5.2 is approximately another 2 stops loss of light
• You need to increase your shutter speed by 4 stops which means 1/1000 to 1/60
• But because the Mamiya is a larger format, you should be able get away with using 1/80, 1/100 and 1/125 which is 1 stop faster.

There isn't a drastic differential.  Just use the basic concept of the exposure triangle and know that if you change ISO and Aperture you need to compensate by changing the shutter.

 

I mean if you were using a light meter to set your exposure and the meter told you 1/100 @ f/5.6 @ ISO 100, this would be correct for getting a good exposure on both a 35mm and medium format camera.  The light meter doesn't take into account the format of the film or sensor when performing the calculation.

 

Film has a much wider dynamic range than digital sensors that you can make a mistake and err a few stops in either direction that it won't matter.  You can later scan the developed film and edit in post.

 

Or if you want to go really old school, you can do a manual dodge and burn using the negative.

 

 

Don't you apply the crop factor to the aperture? since f5.2 on a 0,5 crop should be equivalent to f2.6. 

I just don't know if you need to apply the crop factor to the ISO to get an ISO that accounts for the difference in film size. 

under identical aperture and ISO the mamiya should shoot at a faster shutter than the F5 due to the bigger film not slower?

[ALwin]

Don't you apply the crop factor to the aperture? since f5.2 on a 0,5 crop should be equivalent to f2.6. 

I just don't know if you need to apply the crop factor to the ISO to get an ISO that accounts for the difference in film size. 

under identical aperture and ISO the mamiya should shoot at a faster shutter than the F5 due to the bigger film not slower?

 

For the exposure setting as long as you compensate the entire triangle for changes in aperture and ISO then equivalent settings will work fine, and film has enough dynamic range to give you a big margin of error.  We're talking about 3-5 stops either direction.

 

However there are other factors that will most likely effect the exposure values, due to differences in sensor or film size.  And it has to do with field of view.

 

The aperture opening diameter of a 50mm f/1.4 lens remains constant whether the lens is mounted on a large format camera or a tiny 1/2.3" sensor camera.  Mathematically speaking the amount of light reaching the sensor should be the same, in relation to the surface area of the difference in sensor/film size.  However the field of view changes.

 

If you want to make sure that both the large format film camera and the tiny 1/2.3" sensor camera takes a photo with the same field of view or angle of coverage of the scene, then you need to use two lenses of different focal lengths.  In which case the diameter of the aperture changes which will affect the amount of light falling onto the sensor.

[Captain_Slow]

Camera just arrived, it's freakin massive

 

waiting on film from B&H to get started. 

[ALwin]

Where you expecting anything smaller? It's a medium camera.  It's even bigger than my Hasselblad

[ALwin]

If I were to get a film camera now, I want something like this.

[Captain_Slow]

Where you expecting anything smaller? It's a medium camera.  It's even bigger than my Hasselblad

 

the body size didnt surprise me, the lens size did lol the 100-200 is massive, both bigger and heavier than the body.

[Captain_Slow]

If I were to get a film camera now, I want something like this.

 

how much is each exposure for those lol?