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Apple MacOS X now support 1.07 billion colors (10-bit colors per channel)

GoodBytes
By GoodBytes
in Tech News
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256^4 (gamma 4th channel) = 4.3 billion colors

1024^3 (10-bit no gamma) = 1.07 billion colors, but seriously, the granularity is larger on 8-bit sRGB, and most people can't see the difference between 125 of a color and 126 of a color in that space (and that's on a good 300cd/m monitor), even if you throw them up side by side on 2 adjacent rectangles of those pure colors. Making the granularity finer only decreases the energy difference between each level. 10-bit is understandable, but 16 is stupid.

Gamma is not a "4th channel". Gamma affects the 3 color channels used in RGB, but it is not its own channel, and you most certainly do not use it to calculate how many colors your monitor supports.

I do not understand why you are bringing up gamma at all.

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No. They are monitors that support AdobeRGB. Mostly all 1.07 billion colors monitors support AdobeRGB. They usually have a color profile for it as well.

My monitor has that.

Yep but you still want to leave the monitor in sRGB unless your in a program that supports 10bit or Adobe RGB.

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Gamma is not a "4th channel". Gamma affects the 3 color channels used in RGB, but it is not its own channel, and you most certainly do not use it to calculate how many colors your monitor supports.

I do not understand why you are bringing up gamma at all.

Gamma is a uniform energy control variable. If you have 255 red and 255 gamma, you get full red. If you have 255 red and 128 Gamma, you get something close to but not exactly 128 red. Gamma is a 4th color determinant. If you have 128 Red and 128 Gamma, you get ~60 red. I actually had to measure this using the Xrite iPro over the summer when doing spectrum readings for my Macbook Pro Retina.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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Cones are color C=C. And I'm pretty sure next to no one has an extra cone. We're not mantis shrimp (11 different cones types iirc).

I thought it was 16

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Posted

I thought it was 16

It's an absurdly higher number than 3 :P

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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Posted

I thought it was 16

 

 

It's an absurdly higher number than 3 :P

it is 16. 

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Posted

it is 16. 

I get a cookie!

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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Gamma is a uniform energy control variable. If you have 255 red and 255 gamma, you get full red. If you have 255 red and 128 Gamma, you get something close to but not exactly 128 red. Gamma is a 4th color determinant. If you have 128 Red and 128 Gamma, you get ~60 red. I actually had to measure this using the Xrite iPro over the summer when doing spectrum readings for my Macbook Pro Retina.

Oh look, patrick is making up words again. There is no such thing as a "uniform energy control variable".

I have no idea what you are talking about, but it's not gamma.

 

Gamma is just the color handling tendencies of different devices. If you feed a monitor a pure red value the gamma value of the difference hardware pieces will make it so that the input and output are not identical. That's where gamma correction comes into play. It is used to make the gamma characteristics of the input match the output.

 

Gamma is not a fourth channel of info that gets sent along with the RGB channels.

 

 

Are you perhaps getting gamma confused with luminance? There are color spaces which has it as a separate channel, such as XYZ (I think but don't quote me on that). But in RGB that is purely based on the RGB values.

Gamma is not even measured in three digit numbers. It's measured in numbers such as 2.2 (standard for Windows) or 1.8 (standard in older versions of OS X).

 

 

Edit:

As it turns out, EIZO has a great article that can explain what gamma is for you. It has lots of examples as well.

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thanks Apple, but I'm still too much of a n00b to take advantage of this

2017 Macbook Pro 15 inch

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Oh look, patrick is making up words again. There is no such thing as a "uniform energy control variable".

I have no idea what you are talking about, but it's not gamma.

Gamma is just the color handling tendencies of different devices. If you feed a monitor a pure red value the gamma value of the difference hardware pieces will make it so that the input and output are not identical. That's where gamma correction comes into play. It is used to make the gamma characteristics of the input match the output.

Gamma is not a fourth channel of info that gets sent along with the RGB channels.

Are you perhaps getting gamma confused with luminance? There are color spaces which has it as a separate channel, such as XYZ (I think but don't quote me on that). But in RGB that is purely based on the RGB values.

Gamma is not even measured in three digit numbers. It's measured in numbers such as 2.2 (standard for Windows) or 1.8 (standard in older versions of OS X).

Edit:

As it turns out, EIZO has a great article that can explain what gamma is for you. It has lots of examples as well.

EIZO also has great free monitor calibration software that can also help with finding dead pixels and uneven backlight.

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Oh look, patrick is making up words again. There is no such thing as a "uniform energy control variable".

I have no idea what you are talking about, but it's not gamma.

Gamma is just the color handling tendencies of different devices. If you feed a monitor a pure red value the gamma value of the difference hardware pieces will make it so that the input and output are not identical. That's where gamma correction comes into play. It is used to make the gamma characteristics of the input match the output.

Gamma is not a fourth channel of info that gets sent along with the RGB channels.

Are you perhaps getting gamma confused with luminance? There are color spaces which has it as a separate channel, such as XYZ (I think but don't quote me on that). But in RGB that is purely based on the RGB values.

Gamma is not even measured in three digit numbers. It's measured in numbers such as 2.2 (standard for Windows) or 1.8 (standard in older versions of OS X).

Edit:

As it turns out, EIZO has a great article that can explain what gamma is for you. It has lots of examples as well.

Not making up words at all. I gave it a name that describes exactly what it does. If you look at the color profiles for various displays you'll notice they follow gamma curve functions. That's not a coincidence since it takes an exponential increase in energy output for you to be able to tell the difference between two shades of color, the same way it takes exponentially more energy for one to increase pitch at the same volume with any instrument(every octave is double the frequency of its root pitch). The gamma channel in 4-byte color space is responsible for changing the proportion of energy given to the output spectrum of a pixel. Its response curve isn't linear either, so reducing gamma from 255 can grant you access to far more shades of color. The Eizo article doesn't disagree with me either. If you have 255 red, 255 green, 255 blue, and 255 gamma, you get white. Drop gamma to 0, you get black. Put it in the middle, you get grey, and those greys will be proportional in energy output to gamma's response curve. Do the same experiment with other hues, and that uniformity disappears since the energy signature for the output spectrum isn't balanced. Using all 4 channels under OpenGL you can generate way more than the sRGB color space. You can verify this in processing, c#, or any language with a graphics library if you have a spectrum reader like the XRite. Sorry but this was my preliminary research over the summer in preparation for human subjects testing for color blindness recognition by energy proportions, and you're wrong. Either that or Apple treats gamma differently than every other monitor maker, except the panel's made by LG so that still doesn't hold. Guess I must be right, as usual.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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um what? so the company that is proud of its OS being the "standard" for creative applications didn't support this at all while competitors had it more that a decade ago? they had to have their reasons, but it must have been disappointing for some editors not being able to use 10bit panels on OSX until now

this is one of the greatest thing that has happened to me recently, and it happened on this forum, those involved have my eternal gratitude http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/198850-update-alex-got-his-moto-g2-lets-get-a-moto-g-for-alexgoeshigh-unofficial/ :')

i use to have the second best link in the world here, but it died ;_; its a 404 now but it will always be here

 

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I learned something today, thanks for that.
 

Higher frame rate over higher resolution.

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um what? so the company that is proud of its OS being the "standard" for creative applications didn't support this at all while competitors had it more that a decade ago? they had to have their reasons, but it must have been disappointing for some editors not being able to use 10bit panels on OSX until now

I'm going out on a limb here and saying that the editors using OSX didn't give a shit about 10 bit color, and that only changes now because Apple announced it.

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Not making up words at all.

You are confusing something or you are making something up.

There is no Gamma in RGB and no the G doesn't mean Gamma

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Servers -- although any server that would likely use that much would also (hopefully) be split into multiple servers.

Plus, long ago people also asked why anyone would need more than 64kb of ram...so

 

 

2TB RAM? Why would anyone have that?

Keep in mind you can't ever run 2TB of RAM because of a limit in Windows 10 of 2 physical CPU's..

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Keep in mind you can't ever run 2TB of RAM because of a limit in Windows 10 of 2 physical CPU's..

What if I get one of those ram expander things from the old Pentium Pro servers? I'm sure it would just slot right it. [emoji14]

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Not making up words at all. I gave it a name that describes exactly what it does. If you look at the color profiles for various displays you'll notice they follow gamma curve functions. That's not a coincidence since it takes an exponential increase in energy output for you to be able to tell the difference between two shades of color, the same way it takes exponentially more energy for one to increase pitch at the same volume with any instrument(every octave is double the frequency of its root pitch).

So far you are correct. Or well, you are correct when talking about CRT monitors. LCDs are actually designed to behave this way for compatibility reasons, but it is not actually necessary for them like it was with CRTs.

 

 

The gamma channel in 4-byte color space is responsible for changing the proportion of energy given to the output spectrum of a pixel. Its response curve isn't linear either, so reducing gamma from 255 can grant you access to far more shades of color. The Eizo article doesn't disagree with me either. If you have 255 red, 255 green, 255 blue, and 255 gamma, you get white. Drop gamma to 0, you get black. Put it in the middle, you get grey, and those greys will be proportional in energy output to gamma's response curve. Do the same experiment with other hues, and that uniformity disappears since the energy signature for the output spectrum isn't balanced. Using all 4 channels under OpenGL you can generate way more than the sRGB color space. You can verify this in processing, c#, or any language with a graphics library if you have a spectrum reader like the XRite. Sorry but this was my preliminary research over the summer in preparation for human subjects testing for color blindness recognition by energy proportions, and you're wrong. Either that or Apple treats gamma differently than every other monitor maker, except the panel's made by LG so that still doesn't hold. Guess I must be right, as usual.

Aaaand this is where you are completely wrong. Gamma is not a channel. It's just not. Gamma is not something you set between 0 and 255 either.

Gamma is a 4 byte channel? What the hell are you smoking? RGB is usually 8 bits, but you think gamma is 32 bits? That would mean we allocate more bandwidth to the "gamma channel" than we do to R, G and B combined.

 

Gamma is not a channel. It is not even something that gets transferred between your monitor and GPU. It is something you statically set (for the overall image, not on a pixel-by-pixel basis) to correct for the different color tendencies of your monitor versus your GPU. It is usually 2.2.

 

 

I recommend you watch this video from Xiph. You can skip to 20:23 if you want to learn what gamma and color channels actually are, because you seem to have gotten the fundamentals completely wrong. The part about color channels (RGB, not red green blue and gamma) starts at 22:38 although it is very brief since the video is focused on video and therefore talks more about YUV (which by the way, is also 3 channels).

 

You are wrong, as usual.

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Just a quick correction to your last line. I suppose you mean PPI. DPI relates to printed stuff. 

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You are confusing something or you are making something up.

There is no Gamma in RGB and no the G doesn't mean Gamma

sRGB and RGB are not the same color space. Second I know G isn't gamma, which is made obvious by the very post you quoted.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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So far you are correct. Or well, you are correct when talking about CRT monitors. LCDs are actually designed to behave this way for compatibility reasons, but it is not actually necessary for them like it was with CRTs.

Aaaand this is where you are completely wrong. Gamma is not a channel. It's just not. Gamma is not something you set between 0 and 255 either.

Gamma is a 4 byte channel? What the hell are you smoking? RGB is usually 8 bits, but you think gamma is 32 bits? That would mean we allocate more bandwidth to the "gamma channel" than we do to R, G and B combined.

Gamma is not a channel. It is not even something that gets transferred between your monitor and GPU. It is something you statically set (for the overall image, not on a pixel-by-pixel basis) to correct for the different color tendencies of your monitor versus your GPU. It is usually 2.2.

I recommend you watch this video from Xiph. You can skip to 20:23 if you want to learn what gamma and color channels actually are, because you seem to have gotten the fundamentals completely wrong. The part about color channels (RGB, not red green blue and gamma) starts at 22:38 although it is very brief since the video is focused on video and therefore talks more about YUV (which by the way, is also 3 channels).

You are wrong, as usual.

No, you're twisting my words. In 4-channel color space (8 bits per channel), you have 4 bytes per pixel. Is your mastery of English this poor?

sRGB and RGB are not the same color space.

I am not wrong. Would you like the Java code you can run yourself to prove it?

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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sRGB and RGB are not the same color space.

What are you talking about? RGB isn't a color space, it's a color model. 

Did I say something different? Quote!

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No, you're twisting my words. In 4-channel color space (8 bits per channel), you have 4 bytes per pixel. Is your mastery of English this poor?

sRGB and RGB are not the same color space.

I am not wrong. Would you like the Java code you can run yourself to prove it?

There is no "RGB color space". RGB is a collective term for any color space based on the three colors red, green and blue. RGB includes sRGB. If you are not talking about sRGB then you have to specify which one you are talking about, for example AdobeRGB. Neither sRGB nor AdobeRGB use gamma as its own channel because it is not needed (gamma is statically configured on the monitor and on the computer). As far as I know, no color models use gamma as its own channel.

When gamma is involved you use gamma correction. Gamma correction is not a color channel.

 

There is a fourth channel in some models, but that's for example an alpha channel. Alpha and gamma are not the same thing by the way. When an alpha channel is used with RGB it's called RGBA.

Side note for those interested: RGBA is actually not its own color space since it's just RGB with extra info not related to the colors.

 

 

You are wrong. I don't want to see your Java code. I want you to link me to something which proves that gamma is its own channel. Something like an article, or a video or something. I have linked you to both an article and a video which explains what gamma is and how it plays a role in gamma correction. Neither of my sources ever referred to gamma as a channel, because it isn't.

 

My guess is that you, like always, have a vague understanding of something and then are filling in the blanks with guesses instead of facts.

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What are you talking about? RGB isn't a color space, it's a color model. 

Did I say something different? Quote!

Space, model, same idea different term! Jesus Christ... I swear you people pick apart the dumbest things and miss the overall point. They are spaces in which you can generate digital color in a certain way.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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There is no "RGB color space". RGB is a collective term for any color space based on the three colors red, green and blue. RGB includes sRGB. If you are not talking about sRGB then you have to specify which one you are talking about, for example AdobeRGB. Neither sRGB nor AdobeRGB use gamma as its own channel because it is not needed (gamma is statically configured on the monitor and on the computer). As far as I know, no color models use gamma as its own channel.

When gamma is involved you use gamma correction. Gamma correction is not a color channel.

 

There is a fourth channel in some models, but that's for example an alpha channel. Alpha and gamma are not the same thing by the way. When an alpha channel is used with RGB it's called RGBA.

Side note for those interested: RGBA is actually not its own color space since it's just RGB with extra info not related to the colors.

 

 

You are wrong. I don't want to see your Java code. I want you to link me to something which proves that gamma is its own channel. Something like an article, or a video or something. I have linked you to both an article and a video which explains what gamma is and how it plays a role in gamma correction. Neither of my sources ever referred to gamma as a channel, because it isn't.

 

My guess is that you, like always, have a vague understanding of something and then are filling in the blanks with guesses instead of facts.

No, the RGB color space is defined as the 24-bit color generation technique in which the three color channels are red, green, and blue, and an equal number of bits are used to represent each. This is actually a standard that was set by CBS back in 1940 and adopted by ISO and other groups several years later. The original model was 4 bits per channel, but that's ancient history.  http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/wsj/doc/131310943.html?FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:AI&type=historic&date=Sep%205,%201940&author=&pub=&edition=&startpage=&desc=

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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