will apple switch to intel graphics for macbook pro?

[GoodBytes]

Funny, I have no such problems on my Haswell MacBook Pro Retina with the 750M disabled. Microsoft's software in general is garbage, but eh...

Haswell's iGPU supports up through OpenCL 1.2 perfectly. Broadwell brought on 2.0 support.

That is because you are using Apple Intel drivers for Windows.

You have not used Microsoft software either.

[patrickjp93]

That is because you are using Apple Intel drivers for Windows.

You have not used Microsoft software either.

No, I'm using Intel's downloaded driver for Windows 8.1 as a dual-boot, not a bootcamp. And yes I have used Microsoft's software in the form of hardware-accelerated Excel. I also program a lot in OpenCL. If you're having issues, it's either your fault, or Nvidia was telling the truth that games ship broken and they fix them in drivers.

[GoodBytes]

No, I'm using Intel's downloaded driver for Windows 8.1 as a dual-boot, not a bootcamp. And yes I have used Microsoft's software in the form of hardware-accelerated Excel. I also program a lot in OpenCL. If you're having issues, it's either your fault, or Nvidia was telling the truth that games ship broken and they fix them in drivers.

Yes it is my fault, in fact, it is all people on the web complaining about their issues with Intel integrated graphics. Stop with your Steve Jobs excuses. The product sucks, and it is simple as that. Intel is treating their graphics chip as a free solution, putting little to no effort in it. The number 1 complain I get from people needed help with their system is that their screen "flickers" at times at random, on occasion. Based on digging on what they actually mean, they mean the crappy dynamic contrast ratio. On Ivy Bridge, you have options in the Intel Control Panel that acts on reverse of what they say. Like come on, not even a quick test was done on this.

Performance for the power consumption still sucks, compared to AMD and Nvidia offerings. Manufactures loves Intel graphic solution is it is free (included in the CPU), and most consumers don't demand it as they don't know any better, beside the fact that the system is lower priced, so what is not to like. Sales rep at the store make people think that Nvidia and AMD solutions are only for gamers, telling this to consumers which they think "Oh I don't play games", even though the graphic power of the suggested product with Nvidia or AMD solution is not properly game capable.

[patrickjp93]

Yes it is my fault, in fact, it is all people on the web complaining about their issues with Intel integrated graphics. Stop with your Steve Jobs excuses. The product sucks, and it is simple as that. Intel is treating their graphics chip as a free solution, putting little to no effort in it. The number 1 complain I get from people needed help with their system is that their screen "flickers" at times at random, on occasion. Based on digging on what they actually mean, they mean the crappy dynamic contrast ratio. On Ivy Bridge, you have options in the Intel Control Panel that acts on reverse of what they say. Like come on, not even a quick test was done on this.

Performance for the power consumption still sucks, compared to AMD and Nvidia offerings. Manufactures loves Intel graphic solution is it is free (included in the CPU), and most consumers don't demand it as they don't know any better, beside the fact that the system is lower priced, so what is not to like. Sales rep at the store make people think that Nvidia and AMD solutions are only for gamers, telling this to consumers which they think "Oh I don't play games", even though the graphic power of the suggested product with Nvidia or AMD solution is not properly game capable.

Right, Intel treats it like a free solution while dumping millions of lines of code into Linux to prepare it for Skylake... Intel is as serious about its drivers as AMD and Nvidia, but it has different goals. Do you have multiple DX run times installed? Incompatibilities between them can cause issues. As per OpenCL, it has full 1.2 support. I've used every function there is and never had a crash. If you want 2.x you need Broadwell.

[Akolyte]

Probably.  Intel might also mean better efficiency for them, they could make the battery life longer and even if its not as good at least they can make it EVEN more thinner.    

[GoodBytes]

Right, Intel treats it like a free solution while dumping millions of lines of code into Linux to prepare it for Skylake... Intel is as serious about its drivers as AMD and Nvidia, but it has different goals.

Yes very serious. A great example of this: http://richg42.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/the-truth-on-opengl-driver-quality.html

Vendor C is Intel.

[79wjd]

Right, 3000$ aren't enough money to give us a dedicated gpu. How silly of me to think otherwise. It's not like I would want to use my 3000$ laptop as a portable workstation, nooooo. And that wouldn't require at least acceptable opencl performance, of course not.

Broadwell Iris Pro is pretty impressive beating out the 7870k quite handily (although the 15" rMBPs are still running Haswell, so first gen Iris Pro, which is still quite impressive -- albeit not as good). Honestly, I've had multiple windows and OSX laptops (all high end), and I was getting four~ years of use out of the windows computers (XPS 15 and some other laptop, I forget which), but a solid 7 years out of my 2007 MBP (which still works quite well with pre-Yosemite). And it's not like other ultrabooks in the same category, which aren't all that much cheaper, have much more powerful GPUs. 

 

As a person that uses Intel integrated graphics on its Surface Pro 2... I would GLADLY take a slower, yes SLOWER, AMD or Nvidia graphics solution over Intel.

SP2 has Haswell. Intel has only improved performance. Their drivers are full of bugs left and right, and STILL has no TRUE full DirectX, OpenGl, OpenCL nor DirectCompute support, making games and program crash, or cause problems. An example of how bad their drivers are: dynamic contrast ratio is enabled by default, and you disable it (which you won't find it as Intel doesn't call it that), at random times it forgets that you disabled it, and enables itself, but the Intel panel says it is disabled. But it is not. You need to reboot the system. This issue plagues laptops and mobile device to this very day with Intel latest graphic offering.

hmmm, interesting 

 

I still haven't had any issues with Iris Pro in my rMBP. 

 

I work at BestBuy and wonder why all of the laptops that have dedicated gpus are so huge.

 

Like, having an Nvidia chip can't make THAT much of a size difference, right? Wonder why they aren't in Macbook Pros.

They are in the top tier rMBP -- it's an M370x. 

[Sauron]

Broadwell Iris Pro is pretty impressive beating out the 7870k quite handily (although the 15" rMBPs are still running Haswell, so first gen Iris Pro, which is still quite impressive -- albeit not as good). Honestly, I've had multiple windows and OSX laptops (all high end), and I was getting four~ years of use out of the windows computers (XPS 15 and some other laptop, I forget which), but a solid 7 years out of my 2007 MBP (which still works quite well with pre-Yosemite). And it's not like other ultrabooks in the same category, which aren't all that much cheaper, have much more powerful GPUs. 

 

Not the point - for 3000$ they should have quadros or firepros in them. The mbp is also not an ultrabook; the macbook air would be one. The easiest comparison I can make is with the razer blade, which has all the gpu power you might want. Remember these are supposedly targeted at content creators. If they don't have the power it doesn't matter how elegant they are or whatever, they just aren't useful. Lenovo hands out quadros in their 1500$ workstation laptops; of course they aren't particularly light, but if you want to get content creation done they are vastly superior. The y50 includes a gpu for even cheaper. As for the years of use, that's anecdotal evidence and furthermore it isn't based on a particular brand of laptops, but on "windows laptops" in general. I could tell you I have a 13 year old windows laptop that still works just fine even though the battery is gone (which is true), whereas a macbook from 13 years ago would not be compatible with any software that I would consider remotely modern.

[patrickjp93]

Yes very serious. A great example of this: http://richg42.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/the-truth-on-opengl-driver-quality.html

Vendor C is Intel.

That blog is way outdated in its information. We're programming OpenGL 4.3 for 4790s at our school for our graphics class, on Ubuntu 15.04. Intel is not that behind. If you're having issues, it's apps shipping broken from the get go.

[GoodBytes]

That blog is way outdated in its information. We're programming OpenGL 4.3 for 4790s at our school for our graphics class, on Ubuntu 15.04. Intel is not that behind. If you're having issues, it's apps shipping broken from the get go.

Yea Sorry. You are not doing much advance stuff with OpenGL, most likely. The article is written May 12, 2014.

At work, we tried to get our software running on Intel integrated graphics for allowing people to do light development on the go, as per requested. And all we started to do are workarounds, after workarounds, after workarounds... a month in (and forget performance, we were not even looking at that yet, we just trying to make it run), we gave up. Complete waste of time. Based on our experience, the article is correct.

We do use OpenCL, and while I wasn't involved, the team could not get their stuff to work either. Mind you they didn't invest much time, but seeing how programs like PhotoShop has trouble with OpenCL with Intel integrated graphics, I think it safe to assume that Intel has a different definition or "full support".

[patrickjp93]

Yea Sorry. You are not doing much advance stuff with OpenGL, most likely. The article is written May 12, 2014.

At work, we tried to get our software running on Intel integrated graphics for allowing people to do light development on the go, as per requested. And all we started to do are workarounds, after workarounds, after workarounds... a month in (and forget performance, we were not even looking at that yet, we just trying to make it run), we gave up. Complete waste of time. Based on our experience, the article is correct.

We've used pretty much every function in the programming manual. By the end of the semester we're responsible for building a rudimentary game engine complete with physics systems for lighting, particle effects, gravity, and texturing. You're shipping fundamentally broken code. Either that or our professor (who works on Oculus and Hive all day) is the best OGL teacher in the word, which is really doubtful. Have you tried using FreeGlut as your window manager instead of the more broken alternatives?

As for OpenCL, my lighting system is based on hybrid ray tracing since the CPU latency is much lower being so close to the iGPU. You may want to suggest to them to use OpenMP instead and use the offload function if they can't get OpenCL to work nicely. And do remember Intel only supports up to OCL 1.2 for Haswell.

[GoodBytes]

We've used pretty much every function in the programming manual. By the end of the semester we're responsible for building a rudimentary game engine complete with physics systems for lighting, particle effects, gravity, and texturing. You're shipping fundamentally broken code. Either that or our professor (who works on Oculus and Hive all day) is the best OGL teacher in the word, which is really doubtful. Have you tried using FreeGlut as your window manager instead of the more broken alternatives?

As for OpenCL, my lighting system is based on hybrid ray tracing since the CPU latency is much lower being so close to the iGPU. You may want to suggest to them to use OpenMP instead and use the offload function if they can't get OpenCL to work nicely. And do remember Intel only supports up to OCL 1.2 for Haswell.

I give up. Yes. Intel is the best graphics card manufacture in the world. Their graphics solution put the Nvidia 980Ti Quad SLI to shame.

Intel integrated graphic GLSL performance is simply mind blowing. All games that fails to run or crash at some point in the game, all software that fails due to incompatibilities with DirectCompute, and OpenCL is because the developers sucks. They probably don't even know how to make a blank window, LOLz!

All people complaining at complete incompetents. This a fact of life, if Apple uses Intel integrated graphics in their system, it must be god like

What's that? Buggy drivers? Reversed options? Windows 10 drivers having power saving features problems costing many laptop fail to sleep properly, run hotter, and reduce battery life? Making videos shows artifacts and graphical glitches over prologue period of time, no matter what you use to play your video, including Steam Streaming, and the only way to fix it is to get our of full screen and go up to full screen to force refresh everything? And more, it is so bad that Microsoft sent a large number of engineers at Intel to get their drivers in a working state, and are still there helping Intel, while AMD and Nvidia has no problem. Yes.. pfff... it is because Intel developers made code that is so god like, that software can't handle it.

[patrickjp93]

I give up. Yes. Intel is the best graphics card manufacture in the world. Their graphics solution put the Nvidia 980Ti Quad SLI to shame.

Intel integrated graphic GLSL performance is simply mind blowing. All games that fails to run or crash at some point in the game, all software that fails due to incompatibilities with DirectCompute, and OpenCL is because the developers sucks. They probably don't even know how to make a blank window, LOLz!

All people complaining at complete incompetents. This a fact of life, of Apple uses Intel integrated graphics in their system.

What's that? Buggy drivers? Reversed options? Windows 10 drivers having power saving features problems costing many laptop fail to sleep properly, run hotter, and reduce battery life? Making videos shows artifacts and graphical glitches over prologue period of time, no matter what you use to play your video, including Steam Streaming, and the only way to fix it is to get our of full screen and go up to full screen to force refresh everything? And more, it is so bad that Microsoft sent a large number of engineers at Intel to get their drivers in a working state, and are still there helping Intel, while AMD and Nvidia has no problem. Yes.. pfff... it is because Intel developers made code that is so god like, that software can't handle it.

Oh for Pete's sake! It's not difficult to screw up a shader program and corrupt your own memory. It can't possibly be your software team's fault? You can confirm everything works for yourself by actually using all the functions one after another. It's not like such a diagnosis is difficult. And Intel isn't the best graphics company. It has incredible engineers and programmers, but when it's trying to dance around thousands of AMD and Nvidia patents which cover fundamental technologies, it's difficult to keep up with modern APIs. That said, with DX 12 Intel is at Tier 1 support for that, so the feature parity gap is closing. Try it for yourself. Test each function individually. If you get a crash, fine, it's the driver or Intel's hardware. If you don't, there are some programmers you need to fire or send back to work on the fundamentals.

And if you think for a moment Mocrosoft didn't have software engineers working with Nvidia and AMD early on, you're nuts. Intel is Microsoft's last priority in graphics and is a non-priority for software compatibility in general. If the compiler works, the software built with it works.

At the very least, suggest to them the use of OpenMP and remind them of that OCL 1.2 specification. Trying to use 2.0 will cause problems.

#pragma omp offload target(gpu)

{

//Parallel algorithm here. You can practically take your

//OpenCL verbatim and put it here and just change a few

//things to omp pragmas and leave the algorithms intact.

}

[Blake]

I give up. Yes. Intel is the best graphics card manufacture in the world. Their graphics solution put the Nvidia 980Ti Quad SLI to shame.

Intel integrated graphic GLSL performance is simply mind blowing. All games that fails to run or crash at some point in the game, all software that fails due to incompatibilities with DirectCompute, and OpenCL is because the developers sucks. They probably don't even know how to make a blank window, LOLz!

All people complaining at complete incompetents. This a fact of life, of Apple uses Intel integrated graphics in their system.

What's that? Buggy drivers? Reversed options? Windows 10 drivers having power saving features problems costing many laptop fail to sleep properly, run hotter, and reduce battery life? Making videos shows artifacts and graphical glitches over prologue period of time, no matter what you use to play your video, including Steam Streaming, and the only way to fix it is to get our of full screen and go up to full screen to force refresh everything? And more, it is so bad that Microsoft sent a large number of engineers at Intel to get their drivers in a working state, and are still there helping Intel, while AMD and Nvidia has no problem. Yes.. pfff... it is because Intel developers made code that is so god like, that software can't handle it.

 

Don't you love it when university kids think they know everything?

[BOT Edward]

iGPU's have their advantages for example a better battery life and lighter notebook.

Some of the iGPU's coming out these days are more powerful than a low end gpu anyways so why make it weigh more, cost more and have a lesser battery life?

Seems silly to me...

[PlayStation 2]

$3k+ for shitty OpenGL performance.

GG Apple, GG.

[79wjd]

iGPU's have their advantages for example a better battery life and lighter notebook.

Some of the iGPU's coming out these days are more powerful than a low end gpu anyways so why make it weigh more, cost more and have a lesser battery life?

Seems silly to me...

Because while integrated graphics is getting more and more powerful and replacing the need for lower end GPUs, higher end GPUs are also becoming more efficient and more compact. 

[Misanthrope]

Considering Apple's close relationship with Intel and the strides that Intel's iGPUs are making, it seems very realistic that this would be.

 

Well too bad those strides remain theoretical: so far the entire Skylane product like has been announced and not a single fucking chip will include the Iris pro 6200, only the so far paper-launched-only Broadwell chips have it.

[patrickjp93]

Don't you love it when university kids think they know everything?

I don't claim to know everything and never will. I only know what I know and what I can use inductive reasoning to derive based on what I know. The difference between being an elitist and being elite is actually being elite.

[Blake]

I don't claim to know everything and never will. I only know what I know and what I can use inductive reasoning to derive based on what I know. The difference between being an elitist and being elite is actually being elite. FTFY

To power-phrase your argument: "Intel make good drivers for their iGPU"

The entire IT industry (excluding Intel) begs to differ, no-one says they make bad drivers, just not good drivers. They always have been 'meh'. There is no need for a 1.5 page debate on this topic.

 

Also, Abductive reasoning is superior /s

 

EDIT:

After looking at some of your other posts... you do actually claim to know everything....

 

 

Like I said, wait for the press release over the next few days. I'll be exonerated as I have been every single time. Goodbytes, Lawls, and Opecode have all been beaten. The idea Magetank will outlast me is insane. I haven't gotten a single warning post yet, and it's because I stick to the facts. It's not arrogant to know you are the best in the room. - Patrickjp93 21/09/2015 http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/452138-jim-keller-leaves-amd-amd-claims-zen-on-track/page-5#entry6083070

 

Love the arrogance, keep it up, and rember you don't need to provide facts and supporting arguments, that's for plebs.

[Deletive]

I'd rather have a Macbook pro with Iris pro then having to look for a good windows laptop with Iris pro. 

[BOT Edward]

Because while integrated graphics is getting more and more powerful and replacing the need for lower end GPUs, higher end GPUs are also becoming more efficient and more compact. 

 

Yes but Apple don't tailor for the high-end graphics market inside their laptops.

That's where you would be better off purchasing a different branded machine for a mobile workstation.

[POCOLOCO]

Their macbook pros haven't been "pro" for a very long time. It's sad that so many design students buy MB PROs 15" when a Dell 3800 is the same price and yet it has a 4K screen, weighs less, and has a QUADRO :wacko:.

 

I don't understand why they can't put a K1100M in it either. Its not going to fuck with temps any more than the 370x would.

[Sauron]

jk. but in a more serious tone, intels upcoming iGPU's look pretty sick for the average productivity user. doubt it'll be focused on high end gaming though.

 

The average productivity user doesn't want or need to spend 2500$+ on a laptop. And doesn't really care what gpu is in the system as long as it outputs a display signal. The people who should be considering to spend this sort of money on a laptop are creative professionals who need a LOT of rendering performance on the go, something an igpu cannot provide at the moment and probably won't provide for a long tme still.

[Sauron]

Their macbook pros haven't been "pro" for a very long time. It's sad that so many design students buy MB PROs 15" when a Dell 3800 is the same price and yet it has a 4K screen, weighs less, and has a QUADRO :wacko:.

 

I don't understand why they can't put a K1100M in it either. Its not going to fuck with temps any more than the 370x would.