AMD Upgrades.

[GPUXPert]

The number of power phases is utterly irrelivent, the design quality of the phases is what matters, digiVRM (Asus) 4+1 is perfectly capable of running an FX 8350 at stock or even an overclocked FX 8320.

Low end Asus boards are phenomenal overclockers compared to other brands, you'd be surprised what you could do with a 60$ Asus AM3+ board.

The quad core FX chips are utterly pointless and should never be recommended, for a cheaper price you can get the better performing phemon X4 965 Black Edition or for a tiny bit more you can get the fantastic hexa core FX 6300, games like Crysis 3 make very good use of the 2 cores and the power consumption is less than 5% more than the FX 4350.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcgameshardware.de%2FFX-6350-CPU-256517%2FTests%2FTest-AMD-FX-6350-FX-4350-1068215%2F

 

 

[Ryan Leech]

The number of power phases is utterly irrelivent, the design quality of the phases is what matters, digiVRM (Asus) 4+1 is perfectly capable of running an FX 8350 at stock or even an overclocked FX 8320.

Low end Asus boards are phenomenal overclockers compared to other brands, you'd be surprised what you could do with a 60$ Asus AM3+ board.

The quad core FX chips are utterly pointless and should never be recommended, for a cheaper price you can get the better performing phemon X4 965 Black Edition or for a tiny bit more you can get the fantastic hexa core FX 6300, games like Crysis 3 make very good use of the 2 cores and the power consumption is less than 5% more than the FX 4350.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcgameshardware.de%2FFX-6350-CPU-256517%2FTests%2FTest-AMD-FX-6350-FX-4350-1068215%2F

You do realize that the power consumption of an overclocked eight core is twice as much as the FX 4300 putting an incredible amount of stress on a board made for dual core Athlon and Phenom CPU's. The power phase has a great deal to do with the stability of an overclock and is directly tied to the lifespan of a board. An overclocked 8320 would definitely shorten the life of the board to a year maybe two. You can talk to anyone that knows anything about overclocking; putting an overclocked 8 core 32nm chip on a 4+1 phase motherboard designed for dual core Athlons is the most idiotic thing you could do next to buying a Matrox video card for gaming. So please stop encouraging him to buy an 8320 for an mATX build, if he was building an all out ATX setup  the 8350 would be a no-brainer but not for mATX.

[TechFan@ic]

If he wants to get the FX 6300 and disable 2 cores that also works, but the FX 4350 is a higher binned chip and if he's going to be overclocking on a 4+1 phase mATX motherboard he is going to need all the silicon luck he can get so he can run the lowest voltage he can possibly run and therefore extend the life of his board and the chip itself. If he were to go with the FX 6300 I would recommend he go with the FX 6350 and disable two cores due to the FX 6350 being a higher binned chip and thus requiring less voltage. If price is a factor, he can buy the Fx 4350 at microcenter where both the FX 4350 and the FX 6300 are $119.

The manufacturing process improves over time, that's why buying a chip brand new right after it is launched yields significantly lower overclocks than buying a chip quite a bit later.

And that's why AMD can now launch the exact same CPUs that they released almost a year ago but with a higher frequency range.

I personally own an FX 8320 that is clocked at 3.5Ghz out of the box at 1.38v, I've overclocked the CPU to 4.5Ghz at 1.325v so I actually under-volted it and it's Prime95 stable, an FX 8350 is perhaps binned better than an FX 8320, but now that the manufacturing process has matured binning will mean even less than it meant before, what's larger proof of this is that the highest overclocks reached by Overclock.net members on 8 core Piledrivers were actually achieved on FX 8320 chips not 8350s.

Even IF binning actually made a noticeable difference on AMD CPUs, disabling the worst overclocking cores or "weak" cores as professional/hardcore overclockers like to call them on an FX 6300 will in fact give you a CPU that is equal or better than an FX 4350.

 

[Ryan Leech]

The manufacturing process improves over time, that's why buying a chip brand new right after it is launched yields significantly lower overclocks than buying a chip quite a bit later.

And that's why AMD can now launch the exact same CPUs that they released almost a year ago but with a higher frequency range.

I personally own an FX 8320 that is clocked at 3.5Ghz out of the box at 1.38v, I've overclocked the CPU to 4.5Ghz at 1.325v so I actually under-volted it and it's Prime95 stable, an FX 8350 is perhaps binned better than an FX 8320, but now that the manufacturing process has matured binning will mean even less than it meant before, what's larger proof of this is that the highest overclocks reached by Overclock.net members on 8 core Piledrivers were actually achieved on FX 8320 chips not 8350s.

Even IF binning actually made a noticeable difference on AMD CPUs, disabling the worst overclocking cores or "weak" cores as professional/hardcore overclockers like to call them on an FX 6300 will in fact give you a CPU that is equal or better than an FX 4350.

 

I don't think saving $20 is that big of a deal to him considering he wanted to buy 2 780s. It doesn't really matter what he buys as long as it's not another Zambezi, any Vishera is better than his old FX 4100, and I mean ANY.

[Plastictree]

I am now too tired to think, I'll be back tomorow.

[GPUXPert]

You do realize that the power consumption of an overclocked eight core is twice as much as the FX 4300 putting an incredible amount of stress on a board made for dual core Athlon and Phenom CPU's. The power phase has a great deal to do with the stability of an overclock and is directly tied to the lifespan of a board. An overclocked 8320 would definitely shorten the life of the board to a year maybe two. You can talk to anyone that knows anything about overclocking; putting an overclocked 8 core 32nm chip on a 4+1 phase motherboard designed for dual core Athlons is the most idiotic thing you could do next to buying a Matrox video card for gaming. So please stop encouraging him to buy an 8320 for an mATX build, if he was building an all out ATX setup  the 8350 would be a no-brainer but not for mATX.

I think you've been out of the loop for quite some time sir, an Asus M5A97 overclocks better than the Gigabyte 990FX-UD3, yet it has HALF the number of phases, it only has a 4+1 design and it overclocks better than a 990FX chipset that has twice the power phases, the number of phases is utterly useless, saying that 4+1 phases is not suitable for overclocking because those are not enough, is like saying a quad core core 2 duo performs the same as a quad core haswell because they have the same number of cores !

It isn't that simple ! the only thing that will hold back that Asus board is the fact that it doesn't have VRM cooling, but a Top-Down cooler will keep the VRMs cool and will allow for overclocking.

[TechFan@ic]

I don't think saving $20 is that big of a deal to him considering he wanted to buy 2 780s. It doesn't really matter what he buys as long as it's not another Zambezi, any Vishera is better than his old FX 4100, and I mean ANY.

It's not about that it's 20$ cheaper, it's about the fact that it is better AND cheaper, making the 4350 an utterly pointless product, I'm sorry but it absolutely is.

[CarlosRex]

It's not about that it's 20$ cheaper, it's about the fact that it is better AND cheaper, making the 4350 an utterly pointless product, I'm sorry but it absolutely is.

+1, quad core piledriver FX CPUs are worthless, if you want a quad core either get a 5600K/6600K APU and disable the graphics for better overclocking, or get a quad core phenom that performs better than the quad core FX chips especially in games that use all 4 cores ( no shared resources) and is cheaper.

[Ryan Leech]

I think you've been out of the loop for quite some time sir, an Asus M5A97 overclocks better than the Gigabyte 990FX-UD3, yet it has HALF the number of phases, it only has a 4+1 design and it overclocks better than a 990FX chipset that has twice the power phases, the number of phases is utterly useless, saying that 4+1 phases is not suitable for overclocking because those are not enough, is like saying a quad core core 2 duo performs the same as a quad core haswell because they have the same number of cores !

It isn't that simple ! the only thing that will hold back that Asus board is the fact that it doesn't have VRM cooling, but a Top-Down cooler will keep the VRMs cool and will allow for overclockig

Even if the M5A97 were to overclock better atm, its lifespan is greatly reduced by the 4+1 phase. It is true that power phases don't have everything to do with a stable overclock, they do have everything to do with lifespan. 

 

Also, my QX9650 performs better than most Haswell chips even when they are overclocked a bit. My 2008 technology is actually beating 2013 Haswell technology. So yeah... don't bring the Core 2 Quads into this.

[Plastictree]

Alright guys! I got an 8-5 job, so i gotta sleep. Since you guys obviously know way more than me, me putting in my input won't help. Figure out why I can't put a 8320 and shoot for 4.5 with a top down cooler and noctua fans. And Give me a reason not to get a brand new 6800k with an asus pro m-atx board, and run 2 770s, or 7970s, because FM2 does give me sli on m-atx.

[Ryan Leech]

Alright guys! I got an 8-5 job, so i gotta sleep. Since you guys obviously know way more than me, me putting in my input won't help. Figure out why I can't put a 8320 and shoot for 4.5 with a top down cooler and noctua fans. And Give me a reason not to get a brand new 6800k with an asus pro m-atx board, and run 2 770s, or 7970s, because FM2 does give me sli on m-atx.

That actually sounds pretty good just make sure that mobo has good sound and network capabilities as well as vrm heatsinks. You also need the best cooling you can fit in your case and you need to buy fast ram as you may need to use the igpu someday. As long as you buy the A10-6800K and overclock as much as possible, you should be good to go. The performance will not be as good as an 8320 oc to 4.8, but it will be the best you can buy for mATX and your only choice for mATX sli on the AMD platform.

[Ryan Leech]

If anyone can point me to a better mATX AMD board please let me know.

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131883

[Plastictree]

If anyone can point me to a better mATX AMD board please let me know.

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131883

Pro is ASUS' highest end fm2 board.

 

 

BUT GUYS. I was falling asleep thinking about all this and an idea popped in my head. Has anyone built an m-atx, crossfire full amd high end build? So a 6800k and 2 7970s in m-atx? I feel like if I built this thing, took my time and got overclocks as high as i can and still be 100% stable. And then plastered it as the ultimate amd m-atx fan boy wonder lol

 

I wonder if I did a build log of this, that it'll get a build log of the week on wan show? lol

 

Now talking just pure amd gaming performance, would you not agree that this would be the best route since m-atx 760 chipset doesn't support sli. 

 

also with all these fans I'm gonna need, any 5.25 inch fan controllers to recommend?

[TERAFLOP]

Pro is ASUS' highest end fm2 board.

 

 

BUT GUYS. I was falling asleep thinking about all this and an idea popped in my head. Has anyone built an m-atx, crossfire full amd high end build? So a 6800k and 2 7970s in m-atx? I feel like if I built this thing, took my time and got overclocks as high as i can and still be 100% stable. And then plastered it as the ultimate amd m-atx fan boy wonder lol

 

I wonder if I did a build log of this, that it'll get a build log of the week on wan show? lol

 

Now talking just pure amd gaming performance, would you not agree that this would be the best route since m-atx 760 chipset doesn't support sli. 

 

also with all these fans I'm gonna need, any 5.25 inch fan controllers to recommend?

If you are going to go with the FM route get an FM2+ motherboard, those will support the upcoming Kaveri APUs, Asus has already announced two FM2+ motherboards.

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2013/07/26/asus-kaveri/1

 

Sunbeam has the best fan controllers out there so check them out.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811995075

Also the only difference between a 6800K & a 6600K is the number of active GPU shaders, they both pretty much overclock the same, so if you want to save a couple of bucks a 6600K would be a great choice.

[aaronu]

If anyone can point me to a better mATX AMD board please let me know.

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131883

why would you go for fm socket :S i would never pay that kind of money for fm socket board. I just bought myself a new mobo(asus m5a97 r2.0) and fx 8320  combo  is excellent. not rog board but lots a of features for the mobo. my combo costed me 259.99 Canadian from ncix. if you have fm processor already id dump it and sell it.

 

 

you can get simular kit le kit from ncix at 249.99 http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=87155&vpn=M5A97%20LE%20R2%2E0%20%26%20FD8320FRHKBOX&manufacture=Bundle%20Deals&promoid=1481

 

then theres a 10 dollar mail in rebate. then its 239.99

[Plastictree]

why would you go for fm socket :S i would never pay that kind of money for fm socket board. I just bought myself a new mobo(asus m5a97 r2.0) and fx 8320  combo  is excellent. not rog board but lots a of features for the mobo. my combo costed me 259.99 Canadian from ncix. if you have fm processor already id dump it and sell it.

 

 

you can get simular kit le kit from ncix at 249.99 http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=87155&vpn=M5A97%20LE%20R2%2E0%20%26%20FD8320FRHKBOX&manufacture=Bundle%20Deals&promoid=1481

 

then theres a 10 dollar mail in rebate. then its 239.99

lemme just fill you in, has to be micro atx, and i cant use 8 cores, maybe i can idk, they haven't figured that out yet. And I really would like to crossfire which you cant at all on micro atx and am3. So I would get a 6600k or 6800k and disable igpu and overclock that so i can have crossfire

[bartekxx12]

The 

 

ASUS M5A78L-M/USB3 http://uk.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD_AM3Plus/M5A78LMUSB3/#CPUS

 

Supports the FX8350 according to the AMD website, so just... get that. Really, if they said it supports it, they have tested it and it works. 

Even if you can't overclock it, you'll get MUCH better performance from a stock 8350 than you would from whatever 6, 4 core or APU you might want to buy that you would overclock. 

[Ryan Leech]

why would you go for fm socket :S i would never pay that kind of money for fm socket board. I just bought myself a new mobo(asus m5a97 r2.0) and fx 8320  combo  is excellent. not rog board but lots a of features for the mobo. my combo costed me 259.99 Canadian from ncix. if you have fm processor already id dump it and sell it.

 

 

you can get simular kit le kit from ncix at 249.99 http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=87155&vpn=M5A97%20LE%20R2%2E0%20%26%20FD8320FRHKBOX&manufacture=Bundle%20Deals&promoid=1481

 

then theres a 10 dollar mail in rebate. then its 239.99

He is building an AMD mATX SLI rig so the eight core is out of the question.

[Ryan Leech]

The 

 

ASUS M5A78L-M/USB3 http://uk.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD_AM3Plus/M5A78LMUSB3/#CPUS

 

Supports the FX8350 according to the AMD website, so just... get that. Really, if they said it supports it, they have tested it and it works. 

Even if you can't overclock it, you'll get MUCH better performance from a stock 8350 than you would from whatever 6, 4 core or APU you might want to buy that you would overclock. 

It has BIOS support, and yes the board will post with the 8320, only problem is that it won't last very long with the stress of an 8 core.

[bartekxx12]

It has BIOS support, and yes the board will post with the 8320, only problem is that it won't last very long with the stress of an 8 core.

Yes, it will, it's been tested by ASUS. It will work even with the 8350. And if it breaks, you RMA it. But it won't, Asus tested it and said it works so it works. 

I run my 8150 for a long time on an even lower end AsRock board, I had to upgrade because the VRM could not handle it OC'd at 4.4GHz and would throttle it down to 1.4GHz when running Prime. But it was perfectly fine at stock and even 4.2GHz

Why is everyone here trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist? 

[Ryan Leech]

Yes, it will, it's been tested by ASUS. It will work even with the 8350. And if it breaks, you RMA it. But it won't, Asus tested it and said it works so it works. 

I run my 8150 for a long time on an even lower end AsRock board, I had to upgrade because the VRM could not handle it OC'd at 4.4GHz and would throttle it down to 1.4GHz when running Prime. But it was perfectly fine at stock and even 4.2GHz

Why is everyone here trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist? 

Where does Asus say that they tested an 8 core in that mATX board?

[bartekxx12]

In the link I provided
 

[Ryan Leech]

In the link I provided

 

That is BIOS compatibility saying that the board will post with the 8350. It doesn't mean that it is tested.

[bartekxx12]

That is BIOS compatibility saying that the board will post with the 8350. It doesn't mean that it is tested.

It's not BIOS compatibility, it's the CPU Support list meaning it's been tested. The BIOS number is just that, the version of the BIOS you need to have for the BIOS to detect your 8350 as a 8350 and post with it. The screenshot shows two things. Which processors will work great with the board, AND which BIOS version you need to have for your CPU to be detected properly.

[leipero]

I don't understand what OP really wants at the end...

 

But, if you go with dedicated graphic card, getting APU is not only pointless, but also, step backward, instead of judging by numbers, i will say only one thing, L3 cache is there for a REASON.

 

Also, getting anything less then 970 chipset for AM3+ CPU's is ridiculous, getting 4-core CPU over 6-core CPU (or 8 cores) is also ridiculous for the same platform, unless budget is problem.

 

Any motherboard that is above 140$ from ASUS will do the job fine for overclocking even 8-core CPU's with TDP of 125W (they are usually 140W by specification from ASUS).

 

Personally, i wouldn't go with 7xx, 8xx chipset for AM3+ processors, when good deals are available for newer chipset. Also, i have to add that motherboards with lower price range (example my motherboard) are not good for OC, but they are fine for non overclocked CPU's up to 95W (125W with custom cooling and good airflow).

 

If you can, go with 8320 or 6300 (similar price as 4xxx, yet much better), forget about overclocking since you will not need it, and buy some decent motherboard at over 120$ price range from ASUS. Or, if you use 95W CPU, you can go with much cheaper motherboards from MSI that will do job very good (no overclocking).