Idiots and Frames.

[FloRolf]

Hey guys!

 

i just had another argument on Youtube with someone saying you cannot see more than 30fps. I get that alot and i always have to explain people why this is complete bullsh*t.

Do you have these situations too? Share your best Frame Idiot moments and how you usually solve them! :D

 

Greetz from Germany, good night everyone!

[Denned]

Don't comment on Youtube, makes your life easier

[FloRolf]

Don't comment on Youtube, makes your life easier

 

yeah, sometimes. But i see the good things in people, i thing they can learn all this stuff so they are not idiots in their lives anymore! :P

[M-ursu]

My friend says that ps4 will be running at 120fps all time and that is so annoying.

Btw.good night and it is 1am so i must go to sleep too.

[Blade of Grass]

Explain to him that the human eye doesn't actually see frames.

[allthatremains94]

What I like to tell them is that we don't "sync up" with the video that we see,  meaning that we can see the gaps, and we'll see less gaps at higher frame rates. Imagine waving both of your hands at the same speed, but them not being in unison, ie not syncing up.

[Torand]

I have refrained from commenting on YouTube video's unless its to praise the channel for a good video.

 

 

 

I see so many comments saying how PC's are overpriced, literally just been on a video in which someone had written, and i quote:

 

"Computers are way overpriced no matter the brand. I'd rather buy a $99 Xbox with 60GB and be able to fit 40 games on it."

 

and also:

 

"It's still over priced. I'm not trying to start a console-PC argument. I'm not wasting time out of my life to argue over Identical things.

Fanboy: "Mine projects shadows better"

Me: "Oh my god, who the hell cares?"

Why would you spend so much on a "HD porn" machine? When you can just go onto a porn website and on a $500 PC and do the same thing? You also, shouldn't watch too much porn. Get a girlfriend who you love to touch your penis. it's much better than wanking.."

 

 

 

 

This is why I don't comment anymore, just laugh and think of what they are missing thanks to their arrogance and blatant fanboyism, then shrug it off. It's not worth the argument. I'm happy, so i honestly don't care unless it's someone I care about.

 

I use the same mind set on products I purchase, I don't care if people hate me for using an iPhone (5) and iPad, it works for me and I like it. What difference does it make to them anyway? If something better comes along that I like i will switch or If again Apple comes out with something that's actually good in the next iPhone i'll stick with it, my iPad 2 is still going brilliantly after 2 years with no reason to upgrade to the 4. I honestly do not care about the vendor as long as the product is good. You ain't getting no fanboyism here. Kinda drifted off topic there but hey.

[Volbet]

Take him back to 6th grade biology and tell him that the eye is a "analog" mechanism. It work by having lots of photosensitive cells be exposed to light and thereby making the brain produce a image. Things like resultions and frames doesn¨'r apply to such mechanisms.

[Sharp_3yE]

It is really difficult when people think they are right when they actually are not educated on the subject at all. It is frustrating but the best thing to do is keep calm and have rational discussions with evidence (usually links to articles or if on youtube a youtube video).

[jigglywiggly]

ofc

i don't care what they think though because anyone who thinks that is bad at video games

[James_AJ]

I think what he was trying to say (if he wasn't an idiot) was that YouTube videos' max frame rate is 30fps because that's how YT encodes videos.

[whatthe_fuzz]

I have refrained from commenting on YouTube video's unless its to praise the channel for a good video.

 

 

 

I see so many comments saying how PC's are overpriced, literally just been on a video in which someone had written, and i quote:

 

"Computers are way overpriced no matter the brand. I'd rather buy a $99 Xbox with 60GB and be able to fit 40 games on it."

 

and also:

 

"It's still over priced. I'm not trying to start a console-PC argument. I'm not wasting time out of my life to argue over Identical things.

Fanboy: "Mine projects shadows better"

Me: "Oh my god, who the hell cares?"

Why would you spend so much on a "HD porn" machine? When you can just go onto a porn website and on a $500 PC and do the same thing? You also, shouldn't watch too much porn. Get a girlfriend who you love to touch your penis. it's much better than wanking.."

 

 

 

 

This is why I don't comment anymore, just laugh and think of what they are missing thanks to their arrogance and blatant fanboyism, then shrug it off. It's not worth the argument. I'm happy, so i honestly don't care unless it's someone I care about.

 

I use the same mind set on products I purchase, I don't care if people hate me for using an iPhone (5) and iPad, it works for me and I like it. What difference does it make to them anyway? If something better comes along that I like i will switch or If again Apple comes out with something that's actually good in the next iPhone i'll stick with it, my iPad 2 is still going brilliantly after 2 years with no reason to upgrade to the 4. I honestly do not care about the vendor as long as the product is good. You ain't getting no fanboyism here. Kinda drifted off topic there but hey.

um...well...thank you for that insight on porn? for some reason I feel like that comment should have stayed in youtube

[mr moose]

Look up flicker fusion, basically after 75Hz very few people will detect changes in light stimulus and the image will appear steady. It is related to image persistence.

This is an established science and the average persons mean detection range is 16 to 24 frames per second.

The mistake people make when talking about frame rates is that they assume because the eyes don't really perceive FPS above 30, then the computer does not need to produce frames above 30 to provide smooth gameplay. They do not realise that if the pc/console can't keep up it will feel sluggish regardless of if they can detect the difference between 30 and 60 FPS. Game play will always be detectably smoother on computers that can produce higher frame rates.

Don't flame me, it is heavily researched:

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0000028

[OneGun]

The human eye can see up to 200fps..Its been tested on Navy pilots..

 

http://amo.net/NT/02-21-01FPS.html

[mr moose]

The human eye can see up to 200fps..Its been tested on Navy pilots..

 

http://amo.net/NT/02-21-01FPS.html

 

Any other articles, the one I linked is cited 17 times by peers, and says otherwise.

 

Quote from article:

 

"Although retinal [2] and thalamic [3] neurons respond to flicker at rates over 100 Hz, perceptual studies show flicker cannot be detected at frequencies nearly this high."

[OneGun]

Any other articles, the one I linked is cited 17 times by peers, and says otherwise.

Quote from article:

"Although retinal [2] and thalamic [3] neurons respond to flicker at rates over 100 Hz, perceptual studies show flicker cannot be detected at frequencies nearly this high."

You can find a dozen article's stating you can see over 60hz and a dozen that stats the exact opposite..All I know is the difference on my monitor is night and day when it's at 120hz..

[mr moose]

You can find a dozen article's stating you can see over 60hz and a dozen that stats the exact opposite..All I know is the difference on my monitor is night and day when it's at 120hz..

 

I am pretty sure It's bio-feedback that allows your brain to recognise the difference. Because the brain can calculate the lag between moving the mouse (input) and the computers response (video output) it can calculate how well the computer is running the game, there just happens to also be a correlation between how well the computer runs the game and Frame rates. If that makes any sense?

[Torand]

um...well...thank you for that insight on porn? for some reason I feel like that comment should have stayed in youtube

 

It was a quote, I should have probably censored it but meh, it shows the idiocy of some people.

[Blade of Grass]

The human eye can see up to 200fps..Its been tested on Navy pilots..

 

http://amo.net/NT/02-21-01FPS.html

Not really.

Read the way they did the test. They were in a dark room and they showed a bright image to them. This would "imprint" the image on their retina longer than they showed the image (your eyes are used to dark, you get a flash of light and its "imprinted" because of the difference in brightness). Also, being able to notice a difference and being able to CLEARLY see a difference is a widely different thing. You might of been able to reflect back and notice something happened, but saying exactly what happened is a different story.

[LAwLz]

Show him this fps-compare and then make him read this post.

Alternatively, you can use this website as well.

[LAwLz]

Not really.

Read the way they did the test. They were in a dark room and they showed a bright image to them. This would "imprint" the image on their retina longer than they showed the image (your eyes are used to dark, you get a flash of light and its "imprinted" because of the difference in brightness). Also, being able to notice a difference and being able to CLEARLY see a difference is a widely different thing. You might of been able to reflect back and notice something happened, but saying exactly what happened is a different story.

It still proves that we can detect differences at over 200 fps (from frame to frame). Also, read the results in the article. The pilot was able to identify the aircraft even though it was only shown for 1/220 of a second (as in, 1 frame out of 220 fps).

[Blade of Grass]

It still proves that we can detect differences at over 200 fps (from frame to frame). Also, read the results in the article. The pilot was able to identify the aircraft even though it was only shown for 1/220 of a second (as in, 1 frame out of 220 fps).

They were in a dark room and they showed a bright image to them. This would "imprint" the image on their retina longer than they showed the image

I'd think the test is flawed because of what I said above.

[Humbug]

A lot of this 'eyes cannot detect above X fps' bullshit has come up because of people getting carried away with industry standards and what they mean. For example most movies are 24 fps and since they work in creating the illusion of motion many people think that's enough and anymore is redundant. Same has happened with consoles rendering at 30fps, and LCD monitors at 60Hz etc. a lot of people don't understand that these are merely industry standards which have nothing to do with biology.

[mr moose]

A lot of this 'eyes cannot detect above X fps' bullshit has come up because of people getting carried away with industry standards and what they mean. For example most movies are 24 fps and since they work in creating the illusion of motion many people think that's enough and anymore is redundant. Same has happened with consoles rendering at 30fps, and LCD monitors at 60Hz etc. a lot of people don't understand that these are merely industry standards which have nothing to do with biology.

 

Correct.  Not only that but what most people don't realise is that when they play a game they are not detecting the higher frame rates, they are detecting a computers ability to respond to inputs through bio-feedback, which just happens to coincide with frame rate.  In short we notice when a computer can play the game better which also coincidently causes higher frame rates.

[PhegMan]

I had a few smart asses having a go at me because they thought that you could only see 60fps and that vsync was to slow down the monitor's refresh rate so we wouldn't see tearing of fps as they thought it was our eyes tearing the frames much like the effect of a camera pointed at a screen where you see lines and crap. They also thought that 120hz monitors were a hoax LOL