"Nvidia Disappointed that Witcher, Cars "Tainted by False Allegations""

[Trik'Stari]

humour? after playing a few hours of fallout 3 I swear I came out clinically depressed...

It's just too comical in some ways. The entire idea of the series is comical, a "futuristic" version of the 1950's? (which is what the fallout series is) whereas the Metro series seems to be a bit more serious.

 

It is a good series and they can still make another. 

 

Fallout or Metro? I'd play both. But I still want to see a sandbox version of Metro. The shooting is much better than in Fallout, which is more of an RPG than anything else. They really need to improve the FPS combat of Fallout, VATS works, but it's just not as fun.

[ArcherUBW]

tressfx runs fine on nvidia gpus so why doesnt hairworks run well on amd gpus?

[monstercameron]

tressfx runs fine on nvidia gpus so why doesnt hairworks run well on amd gpus?

according to some, its because nvidia designed it for their uarch and it just doesn't run well on amd -read amd's lower tessellation performance. Others say that amd nor the devs have not been able to optimize the techniques to run well on amd/other hardware [even including kepler!].

[Imabigmac]

It's just too comical in some ways. The entire idea of the series is comical, a "futuristic" version of the 1950's? (which is what the fallout series is) whereas the Metro series seems to be a bit more serious.

 

 

Fallout or Metro? I'd play both. But I still want to see a sandbox version of Metro. The shooting is much better than in Fallout, which is more of an RPG than anything else. They really need to improve the FPS combat of Fallout, VATS works, but it's just not as fun.

Well both are good. But I was meaning the metro series has room to expand and improve. 

[Trik'Stari]

Well both are good. But I was meaning the metro series has room to expand and improve. 

Oh definitely. I always wondered why they even bothered with a currency system, when the game was completely linear. When you come to that first vendor that costs money, you can afford almost nothing, so what's the point?

[Imabigmac]

Oh definitely. I always wondered why they even bothered with a currency system, when the game was completely linear. When you come to that first vendor that costs money, you can afford almost nothing, so what's the point?

And its not like the standard guns are under powered at the beginning. However it would be cool if there were more ammo types and limitations as what can use what type. 

[Trik'Stari]

And its not like the standard guns are under powered at the beginning. However it would be cool if there were more ammo types and limitations as what can use what type. 

That, and just more content entirely. Always felt like there just wasn't enough. Although some of the more scripted sequences were awesome, like the boat ride in metro L.L. Great music set to that.

[Megahurt]

tressfx runs fine on nvidia gpus so why doesnt hairworks run well on amd gpus?

Seems it even only runs well on maxwell, older nvidia cards run like crap with it too. Tech that is way too demanding for the benefits, it's crap.

[Victorious Secret]

So in short, both CDPR and Nvidia have nicely told AMD to go fuck themselves and solve their own problems instead of blaming everyone else. 

 

They're 100% correct. Perhaps AMD should hire some more 20 year old engineers (thats all they can afford at any rate) and actually get to work on not only optimizing drivers for games on a game to game basis but actually approaching developers to get more involved in the process so their cards can benefit from more optimizations. 

 

Or we can keep defending AMDs mediocrity. That works too. Lets give our support to a group of mouthpieces led by the fanboy Huddy who talk more shit than their products and services give them any right to. 

[Imabigmac]

That, and just more content entirely. Always felt like there just wasn't enough. Although some of the more scripted sequences were awesome, like the boat ride in metro L.L. Great music set to that.

I guess you could an element of Dying Light in there with a collectables to sell or something like that. Or rip a page from Bioshock and do cool new "super Radioactive powers". I think the series did a good job with fixed plot and then just dumping you on your own. And while you could only go in a certain path it kinda felt in some part at least it did feel like this for that I was lost. I found googling more often than I would like to admit. 

[Trik'Stari]

I guess you could an element of Dying Light in there with a collectables to sell or something like that. Or rip a page from Bioshock and do cool new "super Radioactive powers". I think the series did a good job with fixed plot and then just dumping you on your own. And while you could only go in a certain path it kinda felt in some part at least it did feel like this for that I was lost. I found googling more often than I would like to admit. 

I like the Dying Light series for it's great melee combat and movement system.

 

Need to combine Dyling Light, Fallout, Metro, and DayZ (for it's survival system) into one single player title. With multiplayer as an option (the biggest problem with DayZ, it depends on broken multiplayer that ends up being nothing but trolls, but nothing to do otherwise)

 

Also......base building, in single and multiplayer

[Imabigmac]

I like the Dying Light series for it's great melee combat and movement system.

 

Need to combine Dyling Light, Fallout, Metro, and DayZ (for it's survival system) into one single player title. With multiplayer as an option (the biggest problem with DayZ, it depends on broken multiplayer that ends up being nothing but trolls, but nothing to do otherwise)

 

Also......base building, in single and multiplayer

Well people have tried, but failed. 

[Trik'Stari]

Well people have tried, but failed. 

Which is why I would like to win the lottery and put my efforts into such a thing. Although I can't think of a single title that includes the best features of all of those series.

[han_han08]

tressfx runs fine on nvidia gpus so why doesnt hairworks run well on amd gpus?

according to some, its because nvidia designed it for their uarch and it just doesn't run well on amd -read amd's lower tessellation performance. Others say that amd nor the devs have not been able to optimize the techniques to run well on amd/other hardware [even including kepler!].

 

amd gave the source code for tressfx after a number of months after tomb raider was released..so nvidia gpus works ok

 

on hairworks, nvidia is sending dll's (not source code) to game devs for use but are unable to do anything about it..

 

just watched the amd exec huddy or something say something about this dll being a black-box that is locked to game devs and amd

 

edit: quite contradictory to first post: "nvidia sends out source code to licensees....etc" so i dont really know who to believe...

even game developers here claim those dll's are utter BS

Edited May 22, 2015 by han_han08

[Anarchyz11]

Well to start why this is such a big deal, Nvidia effectively crippled their kepler cards, as you can see in the benchmark you so helpfully posted. The 780 is actually 2 frames slower than the 960, same with the 770 and 780ti. So why should I believe that Nvidia didn't purposely sabotage AMD card performance with their gameworks. It's funny how almost every game that has had gameworks in it has turned out to be a shitshow when it comes to performance. Let's not even mention how Nvidia keep trying to lock out people from overclocking their gpu's on the mobile side. I've lost absolutely all trust in Nvidia these past few months

 

But the Keplar cards are another issue altogether and have nothing to do with AMD.  As to why we shouldn't assume NVIDIA sabotaged AMD, pretty much every game released this year has had similar performance difference between the two manufacturers. 

 

Gameworks tanks benchmarks because it's an advanced setting beyond the normal max settings that would exist without it.  Those benchmarks then use gameworks settings, and everyone wonders why the added extra premium settings tank framerates. 

 

NVIDIA doesn't program the game.  If people seriously think NVIDIA walks into a developer's office and just optimizes it in a shitty way that only Maxwell can run it and developers are onboard, they're insane.  NVIDIA can only do so much theoretical damage to games that have been developed and programmed over the course of years.  That optimized, or unoptimized, programming builds over time.  Not the moment NVIDIA walks in.  AMD cards are known to have exponentially worse tessellation performance compared to NVIDIA cards.  Guess what hairworks uses a lot of.

[Dabombinable]

Maybe if AMD had released a new card (or any card) after 2013 that actually fixed the issues with tessellation maybe they wouldn't be having so many problems.

[Victorious Secret]

Maybe if AMD had released a new card (or any card) after 2013 that actually fixed the issues with tessellation maybe they wouldn't be having so many problems.

 

That would mean AMD would need to do something other than troll via PR aka real work. I don't think anyone in that organization understands such a concept. 

[Opcode]

Maybe if AMD had released a new card (or any card) after 2013 that actually fixed the issues with tessellation maybe they wouldn't be having so many problems.

It's not entirely architecture related although the amount of tessellation the game requires is just ridiculous.

 

 

Given how well Tonga performs with HairWorks due to it's tessellation improvements I'm curious of how well Fiji will compare with these numbers.

[Dabombinable]

It's not entirely architecture related although the amount of tessellation the game requires is just ridiculous.

 

 

Given how well Tonga performs with HairWorks due to it's tessellation improvements I'm curious of how well Fiji will dominate these charts.

Its not ridiculous if your going for high quality graphics. Though its level could have been made optional.

[MegaDave91]

It's not entirely architecture related although the amount of tessellation the game requires is just ridiculous.

 

 

 

Given how well Tonga performs with HairWorks due to it's tessellation improvements I'm curious of how well Fiji will compare with these numbers.

 

Lowered my resolution to 1200p. My stock Titan X on ultra with everything maxed: 90FPS. Overclocked: 106FPS standing in the same position.

 

This game responds amazingly well to overclocks at 1080 and 1440 and about ~10fps at 4K.

[Opcode]

Its not ridiculous if your going for high quality graphics. Though its level could have been made optional.

Given x8 looks no different than x64 meanwhile the performance difference is quite big I don't see why they would even bother with such high tessellation levels if it's killing performance with no visual advantages. It makes no sense as to why they would just throw performance out the window like that (I would blame CDP). For the biggest problem is the game is lacking a tessellation slider to adjust it. Otherwise I don't think AMD and Nvidia users would be as upset of how terrible the game performs. Without a driver profile (something most average Joe's don't know how to do) you're stuck to turning off HairWorks even though you could potentially run it just fine with lower tessellation levels. Which I'm willing to bet will end up being AMD's driver fix is to default to x8 out of the box in the driver when HairWorks is turned on.

[Humbug]

It's not entirely architecture related although the amount of tessellation the game requires is just ridiculous.

When hairworks is switched off does the game still rely heavily on tessellation performance due to other objects in the game world?

[Opcode]

When hairworks is switched off does the game still rely heavily on tessellation performance due to other objects in the game world?

Yes, although I haven't played the game yet so I honestly couldn't really tell you what and how much (I need to install my 80GB HDD for enough space to install it :mellow:).

[-CLASSIFIED-]

nvidia's doing this to force amd's hand and make them realese their new cards.

[dimitriianghelov]

Almost every benchmark uses HBAO+ and Hairworks, which is naturally going to run like ass on AMD hardware. 

 

The ones that don't show the 290X running about the same as a 970, which is expected given the optimization work NVIDIA put into it. 

 

 

Still don't understand why any of that is THIS big of a deal.  Sure gameworks is a controversial competitive tactic by NVIDIA, but they're options that wouldn't exist without NVIDIA creating them, and they can be turned off.  NVIDIA putting time into optimizing their cards for a game shouldn't be an issue.  NVIDIA taking time to optimize their custom graphical settings for their cards is something you may not like, but better optimization is always better.

 

Seriously, did anyone expect NVIDIA custom made settings to run exceedingly well on AMD hardware?  And does anyone honestly have that much of an issue with NVIDIA working to optimize games for their hardware?  Just because a game runs better on an NVIDIA card doesnt mean AMD was sabotaged, and just because a benchmark shows an AMD card running like shit doesn't mean the idiots putting the benchmark together took off NVIDIA optimized settings.

 

I still don't get this debate. 

 You mean hairworks which is basically TressFx ? tell me again how that thing cannot exist with Nvidia?