Has Microsoft been out-innovating Apple?

[T3STY]

Before you start reading and posting, please, no flame

 

This is a question that's been asked on the OnePlus forums by user anzi2001, but I would like to hear the opinion of LinusTechTips's users too because I find it a very interesting topic.
The debate starts from here:

 

My reply to that thread, which I'll copy-paste here, is this:

 

 

Apple is fine, for some things, takes some ideas from others but then makes them good. That's their strategy. But if you look at the iPhone 4 to iPhone 6, there has been little to nothing improved there. Only the OS has been bug fixed... and ok, they changed the theme to be more horrible (in my opinion, that's something they got reaaaaallly wrong). Also, Apple locks a lot their devices so the users can't do a lot of basic things (ever tried sending an MP3 from an iPhone? You can't? oh.. well...).
I have to admit though that Apple has a pretty unique and beautiful design for their products. Microsoft is improving on that but they're not bringing so much elegance (not even the surface can compete).

On the productivity side, there is little to say about Apple compared to Microsoft. Windows based devices run a lot of software like Word and Excel on a phone. It's kind of stupid 'cause you're not going to review a 30 pages long review in Word, or manage a company's data spreadsheets in Excel, on a 5" phone screen. But as soon as you switch to an 8" windows based tablet you might be doing that quite nicely.
On the iPad instead I can't remember someone doing that. I can't remember productivity software at all. Apple meant mobile devices to be for customers that consume content, including a lot of online and home entertainment content like movies, music, pictures and games. Microsoft meant mobile devices for an all-in-one solution, even if those devices are not the best to do some kind of job. Despite that, windows based devices look more appealing than Apple's.

Now Microsoft wants to make Windows 10 (and hopefully, all future versions) compatible with Android based devices, which is great. Windows 10 and continuity will reduce the gap between mobile devices and desktop ones and possibly it will uniform the way you are meant to use an operating system and your devices. I'm really looking forward to an OPO compatible Windows 10 ROM.
Apple is doing nothing not even for OS X uniformity between their devices. iOS and OS X look like Android and Windows right now, nothing you do on one device is the same thing you did on the other device - which sucks big time. I would say, even Google is doing better than Apple; the chrome-based apps (Play Music, to name one) have been updated to match the Android UI for the same purpose of Microsoft's Continuity: to close the gap between devices.

I will not talk about the price tags because that's a marketing issue. However I really think that Apple believes they're superior to their competitors, when in fact, they're not. They should really try to get down on Earth sometimes...

 

 

So, what do you guys think?

Also, Linus, if you're reading this I'd like this topic to be addressed in the WAN show

[givingtnt]

give me a new version of windows with all of the good old ms games (minesweeper n all + ms best of entertainement)

then we'll talk about microsoft being good at inovating.

candy crush can go to hell

[Guest Kloaked]

I don't think anyone is qualified to participate in this debate unless they currently own a modern Apple PC and a modern Windows PC.

[Godlygamer23]

Apple usually is not an innovator anyways. They are more of a spicer.

[Senzelian]

I was almost falling asleep when watching that video.
That's probably because I don't care which company has brought us more or better innovations.

I simply want a fast, secure and working OS that looks how I want it to look like and supports all of my games.
As long as those companies don't fix that, I don't give a f*** about their innovations, as they're all useless for me right now without that aforementioned fast, secure and working OS.

[TheKDub]

Wait... apple innovates? /s

[TheKDub]

give me a new version of windows with all of the good old ms games (minesweeper n all + ms best of entertainement)

then we'll talk about microsoft being good at inovating.

candy crush can go to hell

 

^^^

 

Like da fuck M$? What if I lost internet for a while and wanted to play fuckin minesweeper or solitare but didn't go searching through the app store for a shitty ad-filled version?

[givingtnt]

^^^

 

Like da fuck M$? What if I lost internet for a while and wanted to play fuckin minesweeper or solitare but didn't go searching through the app store for a shitty ad-filled version?

not just that. I want a good version. not some crappy win8 version.  GIVE US PIPE DREAM BACK AND CHIP'S CHALLENGE !

[AlexGoesHigh]

to begin with both focus on very different thing, apple's forte is hardware, they make computers like no one has ever come close to compare in the same characteristics to the point competitors focus more in different aspects to have better chance at success (expect for the plenty copycats out there *cough* xiaomi *cough*) an example being budget phones, those have a better chance at success compared to flagships that compete to the iphone, like the moto g, best selling smartphone in that price bracket

 

microsoft forte is software, there's no need to say windows is still is the most commercially successful piece of software to have ever existed, well over 90% market share for the past 15 years, to the point microsoft competes with itself once it releases a new version, more recently azure cloud has become one of its more successful ventures, to be as profitable as windows and office

 

but i have to say when you consider each company forte and how are they expanding it, i have to say microsoft has been very innovative this past year since Satya took its chair, they expanded the office ecosystem into competitors platforms and re established the full dominance of office again, they been expanding azure faster that any other cloud service out there and adding more stuff that is exclusive to their platform competitors haven't been able to replicate, i mean are they any other service that allows you to scale server space and power based on user demand? their research arm has been showing interesting stuff very recently, like irides VR and hyperlapse, yeah one its literally a demoed prototype and the other just released as a beta with just core functionality, though they show promise, they both need polish and prove their usefulness

 

then we have windows 10 and IMO its looking like the biggest overhaul to windows since vista released, even though vista started life as being, well, terrible but that was due to a severe lack of polish, an error that they haven't repeated since (couple with the lacking hardware market at that time, more fuel to the fire), anyways, windows 10 is being like the next greatest platform shift, more so that 8, universal apps are an innovation i feel they aren't getting credited enough, 5 years ago and you look at the idea of the same binary, the same code running on a phone, tablet and a pc with completely different cpu and hardware architectures, you would say that's insanity, impossible and impractical, and bam come Microsoft and shows us is possible and is also giving us previews of the unfinished code full of bugs and clearly not ready to the public but they are proving that they can do it, also they are allowing developers to use code produced for another platform and enabled them to use it on that universal platform with few changes, greatly reducing the entry gap.

 

another big change with windows 10 is being similar yet optimized for the environments is running on, with that i mean that if you have used a windows 10 desktop, grabbing a w10 tablet would feel almost the same, feel familiar, similar enough to be recognizable but not enough to provide a horrible experience on it, compared that to someone being proficient with an ipad but would feel ignorant if it used a OSX machine because it hasn't used one before, same could be said about android and chrome OS, though google is slowly showing parity, play music on android and chrome are very similar now, then we have the under the hood improvements, like dx12, though its similar to mantle, its a full overhaul of its predecessor, also a reworked start menu that so far is trying to keep almost all features of its predecessor and adding more, also being severely more customizable, (recent leaks shows that you can customized the shortcuts with whichever you want in settings), speaking of which color theming is much more present in 10 that 8, almost anything will be colored in whichever color you select, it has quirks but it shows progress. due to all of this and that its predecessor, 8, could be considered a major fail and microsoft has a lot to prove.

 

its their last shots at gaining traction in the mobile space, a chance to redeem with power users because of 8, a chance to provided a secure marketplace in windows, that has many benefits that simply going to some random website and download a program you don't know it can be trusted, (if you look at the linux world, the way we obtain software and have for the past decades has been insanity), or be intersected and plant malware on it, and any other security risk you could think about, i hope they nail the store well, it can be a better experience if they get it right, lastly its a huge chance to change their general image of being cunts, though i give that to their shitty marketing team, candy crush really? at least you can remove it in 2 seconds

 

that is not to say apple hasn't done nothing either, OSX hand off looks like an interesting integration of their platform, they launched the apple watch and as expected is a massive commercial success, the macbook has interesting ideas that could become the standard on laptops (the single port not being one of them) and the shitty named touch force is a really innovative piece of hardware booth in functionality and design but i feel all of this doesn't come close to microsoft recent efforst, they have done much more that what booth google and apple has done combined this year, yeah there's the huge caveat that what most of what microsoft has done are in a beta stage or not available to the public but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be recognized of their efforts

 

well this has to be the longest post i have written on this forum but i liked to share mi though on this subject

 

edit: cleaned up formatting a bit to make it easier to read

Edited May 17, 2015 by AlexGoesHigh

[marioo1182]

to begin with both focus on very different thing, apple's forte is hardware, they make computers like no one has ever come close to compare in the same characteristics to the point competitors focus more in different aspects to have better chance at success (expect for the plenty copycats out there *cough* xiaomi *cough*) an example being budget phones, those have a better chance at success compared to flagships that compete to the iphone, like the moto g, best selling smartphone in that price bracket

 

microsoft forte is software, there's no need to say windows is still is the most commercially successful piece of software to have ever existed, well over 90% market share for the past 15 years, to the point microsoft competes with itself once it releases a new version, more recently azure cloud has become one of its more successful ventures, to be as profitable as windows and office

 

but i have to say when you consider each company forte and how are they expanding it, i have to say microsoft has been very innovative this past year since Satya took its chair, they expanded the office ecosystem into competitors platforms and re established the full dominance of office again, they been expanding azure faster that any other cloud service out there and adding more stuff that is exclusive to their platform competitors haven't been able to replicate, i mean are they any other service that allows you to scale server space and power based on user demand? their research arm has been showing interesting stuff very recently, like irides VR and hyperlapse, yeah one its literally a demoed prototype and the other just released as a beta with just core functionality, though they show promise, they both need polish and prove their usefulness

 

then we have windows 10 and IMO its looking like the biggest overhaul to windows since vista released, even though vista started life as being, well, terrible but that was due to a severe lack of polish, an error that they haven't repeated since (couple with the lacking hardware market at that time, more fuel to the fire), anyways, windows 10 is being like the next greatest platform shift, more so that 8, universal apps are an innovation i feel they aren't getting credited enough, 5 years ago and you look at the idea of the same binary, the same code running on a phone, tablet and a pc with completely different cpu and hardware architectures, you would say that's insanity, impossible and impractical, and bam come Microsoft and shows us is possible and is also giving us previews of the unfinished code full of bugs and clearly not ready to the public but they are proving that they can do it, also they are allowing developers to use code produced for another platform and enabled them to use it on that universal platform with few changes, greatly reducing the entry gap.

 

another big change with windows 10 is being similar yet optimized for the environments is running on, with that i mean that if you have used a windows 10 desktop, grabbing a w10 tablet would feel almost the same, feel familiar, similar enough to be recognizable but not enough to provide a horrible experience on it, compared that to someone being proficient with an ipad but would feel ignorant if it used a OSX machine because it hasn't used one before, same could be said about android and chrome OS, though google is slowly showing parity, play music on android and chrome are very similar now, then we have the under the hood improvements, like dx12, though its similar to mantle, its a full overhaul of its predecessor, also a reworked start menu that so far is trying to keep almost all features of its predecessor and adding more, also being severely more customizable, (recent leaks shows that you can customized the shortcuts with whichever you want in settings), speaking of which color theming is much more present in 10 that 8, almost anything will be colored in whichever color you select, it has quirks but it shows progress. due to all of this and that its predecessor, 8, could be considered a major fail and microsoft has a lot to prove.

 

its their last shots at gaining traction in the mobile space, a chance to redeem with power users because of 8, a chance to provided a secure marketplace in windows, that has many benefits that simply going to some random website and download a program you don't know it can be trusted, (if you look at the linux world, the way we obtain software and have for the past decades has been insanity), or be intersected and plant malware on it, and any other security risk you could think about, i hope they nail the store well, it can be a better experience if they get it right, lastly its a huge chance to change their general image of being cunts, though i give that to their shitty marketing team, candy crush really? at least you can remove it in 2 seconds

 

that is not to say apple hasn't done nothing either, OSX hand off looks like an interesting integration of their platform, they launched the apple watch and as expected is a massive commercial success, the macbook has interesting ideas that could become the standard on laptops (the single port not being one of them) and the shitty named touch force is a really innovative piece of hardware booth in functionality and design but i feel all of this doesn't come close to microsoft recent efforst, they have done much more that what booth google and apple has done combined this year, yeah there's the huge caveat that what most of what microsoft has done are in a beta stage or not available to the public but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be recognized of their efforts

 

well this has to be the longest post i have written on this forum but i liked to share mi though on this subject

 

edit: cleaned up formatting a bit to make it easier to read

Do you even use periods or capitals?

[Briggsy]

Apple usually is not an innovator anyways. They are more of a spicer.

 

pretty much this. they take existing technologies (hardware and software) and improve on them, or just flat out change them to suit a specific need or demographic. 

[FaZe Booce]

Apple is a joke. They can't come up with their own ideas.

[T3STY]

@marioo1182: I love your point of view! We think it alike for most part, even if I disagree with you on a few points. Thank you for pointing out some of the things Apple did. Touch force (yep,  g..gr..great name) really sounds interesting and I still have to see a competitor doing that or anything similar. The new Macbook though, I really doubt it will be the new standard. I mean, c'mon, that's just an iPhone motherboard, made a bit bigger and good enough to be used with a keyboard and a bigger screen..   

[MuffinTopMike]

Even Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak thinks Microsoft is more innovative than Apple...

[Swndlr]

I don't think anyone is qualified to participate in this debate unless they currently own a modern Apple PC and a modern Windows PC.

well some of us actually do

like me, and vinyldash, and some other people

[Guest]

But if you look at the iPhone 4 to iPhone 6, there has been little to nothing improved there.

 

Except the camera, the display size, resolution, and full SRGB-accurate colors, the battery life, the CPU/GPU, the OS, the materials and build quality, the antenna systems, the addition of Touch ID, the two-tone flash, the much improved speaker, the Lightning connector, the colors, the weight and thinness, the microphones, the strength of the glass, the technologies like Homekit and Researchkit, the Metal API, the optically bonded display lamination, the storage capacity tiers, the bundled headphones, and the carrier compatibility.

 

Other than that, they're basically the same phone! I so agree with that point!

 

-

 

Just because Microsoft came out of hiding and surprised us with a decent tablet doesn't mean they're suddenly at the top again. Microsoft tried and failed to launch the Xbox One (and all the crap they pulled with that - not so much failed as meekly jumped and never took flight), then there's the inevitability of the Hololens being absolutely nothing more than what Google Glass eventually became (so, nothing), that Microsoft Band thing, the crap-riddled Windows Store, the tiny market share of Windows Phone, and so on. Not to mention Windows 8/8.1, which both got a lot of negativity thrown at them. Really Microsoft, a tablet-based interface with a KB&M?

 

Microsoft has the desktop/school/business OS software tied up, I'll give them that. But Windows (IMO) isn't the best OS available, yet it's the most expensive.

[Gr0egercesg]

Microsoft = innovation central

Apple = Digs through the trash can, and then makes it look shiny

[Norman_the_Owl]

Windows hasn't innovated at all, but i find the surface lineup more innovative than the new Macbook.

Surfaces aren't really new at all, but they're more different than just making you're laptop slimmer

[Peepnbrick]

Apple is innovative on the design side of things - They know how to make a product look great. Innovation isn't just making good new products, it can also be bad new ideas, like only putting one port on a laptop. There was innovation there, but it was just a little too soon. A comparable example on the Microsoft side of the argument is XBox One, where the Kinect would always be on and listening. That was innovative, but the market wasn't ready for it.

 

If we use innovative with its true definition, that is, creating and designing new things, then Microsoft has become more innovative with things like Hololens, Hyperlapse, Continuum, XBox One always on features, Kinect, Surface, and possibly their cloud services (I'm not as well versed on that subject).

 

Apple, on the other hand, hasn't done quite as well. Sure, they've innovated on 5k screens, Ultra slim products, Drastically contributed to the smartphone market in a positive way, and had smaller innovations (Force touch trackpads, healthkit, Metal, Swift, Antennae with iPhone 4). Sure, they are innovating, but all of their innocations in the last 5 years have been relatively minor compared to the innovations that Microsoft has made in that time.

 

Unfortunately for Apple, (On the innovation front and not the cash front)  this is no longer 1984, or even the early 2000s. The balance of power has shifted to the hands of Satya.

[.spider.]

Yes

https://www.google.com/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=uphYVbP5H-yl8wfIvYGgCg&gws_rd=ssl,cr&fg=1#q=microsoft+research

https://www.google.com/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=AZlYVZPVLqyK8QfSyYCoCw&gws_rd=cr&fg=1#q=Apple+research