Hacking, and all the like. Discussion.

[Raid]

I think that unwanted intrusion of any kind is wrong, be it digital or not.

[LuizStocco]

I think Hacking, and all related, requires a LOT of skill... It's really amazing! In a way you are Brain Fighting against a Computer, and in some cases Computer + Hacker!!!
That's Awesome!!  :lol:

[eshbop]

Getting into a system you shouldn't be in is in almost all cases is going to be malicious.

 

So yeah, it's no good in my opinion.

[Blade of Grass]

Getting into a system you shouldn't be in is in almost all cases is going to be malicious.

 

So yeah, it's no good in my opinion.

False.

 

I suggest you read Ghost in the Wires: My Story as the Worlds Most Wanted Hacker by Kevin Mitnick.

[eshbop]

False.

 

I suggest you read Ghost in the Wires: My Story as the Worlds Most Wanted Hacker by Kevin Mitnick.

I'll look in to. True, not all 'hackers' are doing it to steal IP, etc, but I'm not sure if hacking for kicks is permissible either. You're still causing damage in some form, but I guess you're also flagging exploits.

[Blade of Grass]

I'll look in to. True, not all 'hackers' are doing it to steal IP, etc, but I'm not sure if hacking for kicks is permissible either. You're still causing damage in some form, but I guess you're also flagging exploits.

Not really, you can hack without damaging stuff. Mitnick "hacked" into a few different companies and stole the source code for their OSes, but he didn't damage anything. 

[Kuzma]

I'm a grey hat and to be honest if I hadn't done half of the black hat hacking I've done I wouldn't know half my programming languages or the ins and outs of viruses etc. :p I think black hat hacking for educational purposes is fine; I killed an old laptop 3 times testing out viruses

[SSOB]

Hacking is most of the time good , cracking on the other hand is really bad lol

[Mineallmine]

"Hacking to a real hacker really means doing things to a computer or a system that causes that computer or system to do things beyond it's intended purposes" - Allen Wong

[Flynn]

I'm a grey hat and to be honest if I hadn't done half of the black hat hacking I've done I wouldn't know half my programming languages or the ins and outs of viruses etc. :P I think black hat hacking for educational purposes is fine; I killed an old laptop 3 times testing out viruses

 

I learned the most of what I learned by messing with my own stuff.  The vast majority of hackers out there use no programming languages to do what they do, they simply write scripts which is just a bunch of commands bundled into a single file.  Black Hat hacking, by definition, is not for educational purposes.  Black Hat means gaining access into thing in which you don't belong, which is invasion of privacy and unlawful use of private resources or property, which is criminal.  Messing with your own stuff and killing your own laptops for testing isn't black or grey hat, it's simply practice.  The Six Thinking Hats are White (information), Black (discernment), Red (emotions), Yellow (optimistic response), and Green (creative); with blue being the meta thinking processes hat.  This is where the term Black and White Hat hackers actually came from, Grey came later to describe people who employ both negative and objective practices without sticking exclusively to either.  This psychological exploration into individual thinking was actually developed by a guy named Edward de Bono back in 1985, it's actually one of a series that I can't remember right this moment.

 

So as you can see, practicing on your own equipment is a Blue hat practice, with and underlying White and Green practices.  Black is for the discernment of logic that is used to explore cautious and underground processes.  Black hat hacking isn't really meant to be malicious in nature, it's simply the inevitable outcome of any practice that isn't legitimized by social or accepted practices.  That doesn't mean that Black Hat hackers can't be dicks out for kicks.  The term Black Hat has expanded past what it's originally defined as and is now a term taken by the many to describe criminal or almost taboo acts involving technology.

 

Ok, off that soapbox and on to another...

 

Hacking is most of the time good , cracking on the other hand is really bad lol

 

Like I described above, hacking is neither good nor bad, it's a description of an act.  The act is what is good or bad.  The vast majority of hacking in the public eye (or that makes the public eye) is actually VERY bad.  But keep in mind that sensationalism is running rapidly more apparent in what the press chooses to exemplify.  So there is no way to tell if the majority of hacking done day to day is either good or bad.  You could say it boils down to intentions, but we all know that there are people out there who honestly believe what they are doing is for the greater good even though it obviously isn't.  Cracking and Hacking are two terms that are related much in the way that Apple and Orange are.  Both are fruits, both are sweet, but there are completely different processes that happen to make them what they are and how they got here.  You can't really compare the two in a blanket one is right while the other is wrong statement.

 

As a matter of fact, technically, Microsoft's very own administrative password reset is a cracking tool in that it uses an elevated permission the user doesn't have access to in order to complete an exploit on that user's group policy access (thus allowing you to change the reg entry to change your password).  Cracking is very broad, as you can see.  But so is hacking.

 

False.

 

I suggest you read Ghost in the Wires: My Story as the Worlds Most Wanted Hacker by Kevin Mitnick.

 

This was in response to a comment "Getting into a system you shouldn't be in is in almost all cases is going to be malicious."

I'm not going to nitpick on this too much, but to get into anything you don't belong in is, by definition, malicious.  You may not be intending to do harm, but you are however unlawfully gaining access to a restricted by intent system.  You are circumventing the system's intended use and are therefore violating terms of service and in some cases the law.  Malice doesn't have to solely be the intent to do harm, but can be simply intent to commit an unlawful act.

 

Your logic here could be argued through semantics, but the logic is still sound.  It's kind of like saying "No officer, I didn't go 100 miles an hour with intent of breaking the law, I was doing it with the intent of getting where I'm going faster."  You simply being aware of the morality of law breaking, though not bound by the morality in your own admission, still means you are liable for the act itself regardless of intent.

 

"Hacking to a real hacker really means doing things to a computer or a system that causes that computer or system to do things beyond it's intended purposes" - Allen Wong

 

Meh, Allen Wong is impressive but he is an application developer, from what I understand (and I could be wrong) his "hacking" experience doesn't move past manipulation of already written processes and systems.  He can write software for phones like nothing else, but that's not hacking.  And hacking (to a real hacker) doesn't simply mean to make a computer or system do things beyond it's intended purpose, the VAST MAJORITY of the time it's to make it do exactly what it's intended to do, just for an unintended user.

[Kuzma]

I learned the most of what I learned by messing with my own stuff.  The vast majority of hackers out there use no programming languages to do what they do, they simply write scripts which is just a bunch of commands bundled into a single file.  Black Hat hacking, by definition, is not for educational purposes.  Black Hat means gaining access into thing in which you don't belong, which is invasion of privacy and unlawful use of private resources or property, which is criminal.  Messing with your own stuff and killing your own laptops for testing isn't black or grey hat, it's simply practice.  The Six Thinking Hats are White (information), Black (discernment), Red (emotions), Yellow (optimistic response), and Green (creative); with blue being the meta thinking processes hat.  This is where the term Black and White Hat hackers actually came from, Grey came later to describe people who employ both negative and objective practices without sticking exclusively to either.  This psychological exploration into individual thinking was actually developed by a guy named Edward de Bono back in 1985, it's actually one of a series that I can't remember right this moment.

 

So as you can see, practicing on your own equipment is a Blue hat practice, with and underlying White and Green practices.  Black is for the discernment of logic that is used to explore cautious and underground processes.  Black hat hacking isn't really meant to be malicious in nature, it's simply the inevitable outcome of any practice that isn't legitimized by social or accepted practices.  That doesn't mean that Black Hat hackers can't be dicks out for kicks.  The term Black Hat has expanded past what it's originally defined as and is now a term taken by the many to describe criminal or almost taboo acts involving technology.

 

Ok, off that soapbox and on to another...

 

 

Like I described above, hacking is neither good nor bad, it's a description of an act.  The act is what is good or bad.  The vast majority of hacking in the public eye (or that makes the public eye) is actually VERY bad.  But keep in mind that sensationalism is running rapidly more apparent in what the press chooses to exemplify.  So there is no way to tell if the majority of hacking done day to day is either good or bad.  You could say it boils down to intentions, but we all know that there are people out there who honestly believe what they are doing is for the greater good even though it obviously isn't.  Cracking and Hacking are two terms that are related much in the way that Apple and Orange are.  Both are fruits, both are sweet, but there are completely different processes that happen to make them what they are and how they got here.  You can't really compare the two in a blanket one is right while the other is wrong statement.

 

As a matter of fact, technically, Microsoft's very own administrative password reset is a cracking tool in that it uses an elevated permission the user doesn't have access to in order to complete an exploit on that user's group policy access (thus allowing you to change the reg entry to change your password).  Cracking is very broad, as you can see.  But so is hacking.

 

 

This was in response to a comment "Getting into a system you shouldn't be in is in almost all cases is going to be malicious."

I'm not going to nitpick on this too much, but to get into anything you don't belong in is, by definition, malicious.  You may not be intending to do harm, but you are however unlawfully gaining access to a restricted by intent system.  You are circumventing the system's intended use and are therefore violating terms of service and in some cases the law.  Malice doesn't have to solely be the intent to do harm, but can be simply intent to commit an unlawful act.

 

Your logic here could be argued through semantics, but the logic is still sound.  It's kind of like saying "No officer, I didn't go 100 miles an hour with intent of breaking the law, I was doing it with the intent of getting where I'm going faster."  You simply being aware of the morality of law breaking, though not bound by the morality in your own admission, still means you are liable for the act itself regardless of intent.

 

 

Meh, Allen Wong is impressive but he is an application developer, from what I understand (and I could be wrong) his "hacking" experience doesn't move past manipulation of already written processes and systems.  He can write software for phones like nothing else, but that's not hacking.  And hacking (to a real hacker) doesn't simply mean to make a computer or system do things beyond it's intended purpose, the VAST MAJORITY of the time it's to make it do exactly what it's intended to do, just for an unintended user.

I did use what I learned to mess with people but I was younger then, I took down forums if friends asked and if people were paying *shrug* I probably wouldn't do it now but MySQL Injection, Key loggers and RATs are some of the thing's I used. I was kind of fascinated by what I could do (I was between the ages of 10-11 so xD I was pretty open to be manipulated as I was when I joined Matrix but that's another story....) and to be honest due to my short attention span I just ended up bored and moved on to other things, the thing that killed my laptop was an experiment to create a "super virus" one that would go in duplicate itself under different names, run the duplicates; add them to start up; disable mouse functionality; disable keyboard functionality and then show a BSOD (a fake one) while deleting system32; needless to say it worked but I was too young and stupid to back it up and I was stuck without a computer for a few months which resulted in me moving on in the internet. I would consider what I did more towards white and green with some black mixed in due to the group that I joined but since I left I'm more grey because I still do know how to do what I did (white) and I still would use what I know in the wrong way in retaliation to someone else (black v black) but never would I attack an innocent person.

[Flynn]

I did use what I learned to mess with people but I was younger then, I took down forums if friends asked and if people were paying *shrug* I probably wouldn't do it now but MySQL Injection, Key loggers and RATs are some of the thing's I used. I was kind of fascinated by what I could do (I was between the ages of 10-11 so xD I was pretty open to be manipulated as I was when I joined Matrix but that's another story....) and to be honest due to my short attention span I just ended up bored and moved on to other things, the thing that killed my laptop was an experiment to create a "super virus" one that would go in duplicate itself under different names, run the duplicates; add them to start up; disable mouse functionality; disable keyboard functionality and then show a BSOD (a fake one) while deleting system32; needless to say it worked but I was too young and stupid to back it up and I was stuck without a computer for a few months which resulted in me moving on in the internet. I would consider what I did more towards white and green with some black mixed in due to the group that I joined but since I left I'm more grey because I still do know how to do what I did (white) and I still would use what I know in the wrong way in retaliation to someone else (black v black) but never would I attack an innocent person.

 

I don't know about the UK, but in the US vigilantism is against the law. so Black vs Black hatters isn't a matter of avoiding collateral damage with innocent systems, it's still illegal LOL.

 

It's kind of like carrying a gun on the subway after getting assaulted and going around shooting the people involved.....oh wait, not only did she get fanfare they even made a movie about her.  Never-mind, bad analogy.

 

As for your virus, how long ago did you try to make that?  We've been fighting off viruses like that and more for probably a decade now. I remember 8 years ago when there was a really popular virus that would simply take a screenshot of your computer, then use pixel replacement to change a couple things on the desktop (not for real, it was a picture in a borderless window), then look through your registry, and depending on the virus software, pop up a window that looks exactly like what you were using.  SO MUCH money was wasted on calling numbers and paying for the extra protection to get rid of the virus (the number to call was in fact an automated number by the hackers that collected credit card information).  After they had your credit card info, the virus would be "expunged" from your system using their advanced utility (was actually just a registry key that was flipped).

 

These days things like that can be made in a matter of minutes, windows registry almost makes it easy on hackers LOL.  The entire concept of a registry is almost an open invitation for someone to come mess with your system.

[Kuzma]

I don't know about the UK, but in the US vigilantism is against the law. so Black vs Black hatters isn't a matter of avoiding collateral damage with innocent systems, it's still illegal LOL.

 

It's kind of like carrying a gun on the subway after getting assaulted and going around shooting the people involved.....oh wait, not only did she get fanfare they even made a movie about her.  Never-mind, bad analogy.

 

As for your virus, how long ago did you try to make that?  We've been fighting off viruses like that and more for probably a decade now. I remember 8 years ago when there was a really popular virus that would simply take a screenshot of your computer, then use pixel replacement to change a couple things on the desktop (not for real, it was a picture in a borderless window), then look through your registry, and depending on the virus software, pop up a window that looks exactly like what you were using.  SO MUCH money was wasted on calling numbers and paying for the extra protection to get rid of the virus (the number to call was in fact an automated number by the hackers that collected credit card information).  After they had your credit card info, the virus would be "expunged" from your system using their advanced utility (was actually just a registry key that was flipped).

 

These days things like that can be made in a matter of minutes, windows registry almost makes it easy on hackers LOL.  The entire concept of a registry is almost an open invitation for someone to come mess with your system.

Idk probably is, never really thought to check at 10 years old and I tried it 5 1/2 years ago (I'm 16 in november) ; the registry is broken to be honest but it's the backbone of Windows and the fact that it is so easy to access is more proof that Windows needs to be re-built :p , looking back now as to what I did it was quite primitive but it did teach me what I needed to know.

[Flynn]

the registry is broken to be honest but it's the backbone of Windows and the fact that it is so easy to access is more proof that Windows needs to be re-built :P

 

Yeah, but we all know that's not going to happen.  At least know the UAC prompts when you try to make a change, unless of course you change the registry to not do it.....registry changes change the way the registry is protected, genius isn't it?

[Kuzma]

Yeah, but we all know that's not going to happen.  At least know the UAC prompts when you try to make a change, unless of course you change the registry to not do it.....registry changes change the way the registry is protected, genius isn't it?

xD amazingly genius; UAC is bad anyway :/ most anti-virus' do a better job of prompting you when a change is made.