New Mouse

[simonh]

Hello Guys! :)

I recently got back into playing CS, but my current mouse is not capable of my playstyle, and here's why:

Currently I have an Ikari Laser set at ~180degree pr. 45cm (without acceleration), but since the Ikari has a maxspeed at 1,5 m/s, it's impossible to make fast 180turns (When trying to do so, I experience negative acceleration, ie. it doesnt travel the desired distance).

It's seems (al though I have NOT tested it, as I have no way to do so) that this is happening when I break the 1,5 m/s mark, and thus the mouse is not able to track properly.

My question:

- Which mice/sensors has a high maxspeed and doesnt "suffer" from positive/negative acceleration and anglesnapping?

- Would anybody care to explain when these can occur: Negative acceleration, Positive acceleration and Anglesnapping?

- SimonH :)

PS: THANK YOU FOR HELPING!

*Edited to make myself a bit more clear.

*Edited out the part about mousebugs (im probably gonna make a second thread about it)

[b1ack1otus]

I'm sorry what is it you are asking? acceleration?

[Toby]

No, acceleration isn't a result of hitting the malfunction speed. They're two entirely separate things.

As for your questions they seem slightly strangely worded, but I'll try to answer them.

1 - No. Some sensors have a very high malfunction speed, but have acceleration at very low speeds. If you want the most accurate mouse you can get, you need a mouse with an S3888, S3988 or A3090 sensor.

2 - Why would you want angle snapping? I think you can switch it on for some mice in the firmware, but given your situation I wouldn't have thought it was desirable...

[Toby]

I'm sorry what is it you are asking? acceleration?

Most mouse sensors have an inherent amount of either positive acceleration, negative acceleration or both, which means moving the mouse the same distance at different speeds will cause the pointer to move a different distance across the screen. A lot of people don't notice it, but it's one of the few objective measures of a mouse and is most problematic for FPS players, for whom precision is obviously paramount.

I've been wondering a lot recently whether the people who don't notice it would find themselves doing better with an accurate mouse.

[b1ack1otus]

I'm sorry what is it you are asking? acceleration?

well sorry, but I'm one of those people who doesn't notice this :(

and I don't play as much as FPS games as others.

Hope someone else have other inputs

[Toby]

No, acceleration isn't a result of hitting the malfunction speed. They're two entirely separate things.

As for your questions they seem slightly strangely worded, but I'll try to answer them.

1 - No. Some sensors have a very high malfunction speed, but have acceleration at very low speeds. If you want the most accurate mouse you can get, you need a mouse with an S3888, S3988 or A3090 sensor.

2 - Why would you want angle snapping? I think you can switch it on for some mice in the firmware, but given your situation I wouldn't have thought it was desirable...

In response to your edit, here's a list of mice I'd recommend, in no particular order...

Razer Deathadder

Logitech G400

Zowie AM

Zowie EC1 Evo

Roccat Savu

R.A.T. 3

Razer Krait 2013

CM Storm Spawn

CM Storm Recon

All of those are free from acceleration and angle snapping. As far as when they happen, angle snapping will occur, I presume, whenever you move the mouse in an almost vertical or horizontal line. Acceleration can happen whenever you move the mouse above a certain speed (depends on the mouse).

[simonh]

No, acceleration isn't a result of hitting the malfunction speed. They're two entirely separate things.

As for your questions they seem slightly strangely worded, but I'll try to answer them.

1 - No. Some sensors have a very high malfunction speed, but have acceleration at very low speeds. If you want the most accurate mouse you can get, you need a mouse with an S3888, S3988 or A3090 sensor.

2 - Why would you want angle snapping? I think you can switch it on for some mice in the firmware, but given your situation I wouldn't have thought it was desirable...

Thank you! It might be strangely worded, but Im pretty sure I havent stated that I wanted angle snapping anywhere.. (?)

Anyway, do you know the Zowie AM's Inch Per Second / Meter Per Second, cause it isnt listed on their website? :)

[simonh]

I'm sorry what is it you are asking? acceleration?

@Toby

I'm pretty sure the avarage pc-user and any "non-fps"-gamer wouldn't notice, as they rely on hand-eye coordination rather than muscle memory :)

[Toby]

I'm sorry what is it you are asking? acceleration?

I think it would probably still affect anything where clicking accuracy comes into play. RTS', ARPGs and MOBAs to an extent...

[Toby]

No, acceleration isn't a result of hitting the malfunction speed. They're two entirely separate things.

As for your questions they seem slightly strangely worded, but I'll try to answer them.

1 - No. Some sensors have a very high malfunction speed, but have acceleration at very low speeds. If you want the most accurate mouse you can get, you need a mouse with an S3888, S3988 or A3090 sensor.

2 - Why would you want angle snapping? I think you can switch it on for some mice in the firmware, but given your situation I wouldn't have thought it was desirable...

As my comment implied, my initial reply was in response to your pre-edit post. That's what your words had asked, even though I was pretty sure that *you* hadn't.

The Zowies should be the same as everything else except the Razers, since it uses the same sensor (A3090).

[simonh]

No, acceleration isn't a result of hitting the malfunction speed. They're two entirely separate things.

As for your questions they seem slightly strangely worded, but I'll try to answer them.

1 - No. Some sensors have a very high malfunction speed, but have acceleration at very low speeds. If you want the most accurate mouse you can get, you need a mouse with an S3888, S3988 or A3090 sensor.

2 - Why would you want angle snapping? I think you can switch it on for some mice in the firmware, but given your situation I wouldn't have thought it was desirable...

Hmm.. if the a3090's are all the same, will they live up do my demands? They seem to indeed be without accel/prediction, but what about my fast swipes?

Here's the Zowie Evo Specs from their official website:

Color: Black only

Coating: Full rubber paint

DPI (Dots Per Inch): 450/1150/2300

Frames Per Second: 6,400

Inches Per Second: 60

Max. Acceleration: 20G

USB report rate: 1000/500/125 Hz

Connector: USB

Buttons: 5

Length of cable: 2m/6.6ft

Weight without cable: EC1, 97g - EC2, 93g.

Dimensions:

EC1: 128 x 43 x 62-70 mm / 5 x 1.7 x 2.44-2.76 in

EC2: 120 x 40 x 58-65 mm / 4.72 x 1.57 x 2.28-2.56 in

And here's the Ikari lasers:

Samples per second: 40.000

Inches per second: 50

Mega pixels per second: XX

Counts per inch: 1 – 3.200

Maximum acceleration: 20 G

Sensor data path: True 16 bit

Lift distance: ~1,8 mm

Maximum polling: 1.000 Hz

They seem almost the same to me, but, as stated in #0, it cant handle fast swipes, so will the a3090 handle it better?

- and sorry about the many edits :P

[Toby]

I don't know about those specs, but supposedly the Ikari has under half the malfunction speed of the A3090 (1.5 meters a second compared to somewhere around high 3.X to low 4.X).

This conversation's reaching the limits of my knowledge, but apparently it's advisable to avoid multi-colour mousemats for the AM due to the combination of sensor and lens causing jitter and lower malfunction speed. I'm not sure what other mice this might apply to though.

[simonh]

I don't know about those specs, but supposedly the Ikari has under half the malfunction speed of the A3090 (1.5 meters a second compared to somewhere around high 3.X to low 4.X).

This conversation's reaching the limits of my knowledge, but apparently it's advisable to avoid multi-colour mousemats for the AM due to the combination of sensor and lens causing jitter and lower malfunction speed. I'm not sure what other mice this might apply to though.

Can you try to answer what happens when moving at speeds between the max tracking speed and the malfunction speed?

[Toby]

I don't know about those specs, but supposedly the Ikari has under half the malfunction speed of the A3090 (1.5 meters a second compared to somewhere around high 3.X to low 4.X).

This conversation's reaching the limits of my knowledge, but apparently it's advisable to avoid multi-colour mousemats for the AM due to the combination of sensor and lens causing jitter and lower malfunction speed. I'm not sure what other mice this might apply to though.

I'd have thought that anything higher than a mouse's max tracking speed would be it's malfunction speed.

There's a term used, called "perfect control", which is the maximum speed at which a mouse performs as it should. Now, if there exists speeds between that and a mouse's malfunction speed (and I'm not sure there are), I imagine that's where acceleration would kick in. As it is, I'm not sure you could move the mice I've mentioned fast enough to reach that point, while also remaining in control.

[simonh]

I don't know about those specs, but supposedly the Ikari has under half the malfunction speed of the A3090 (1.5 meters a second compared to somewhere around high 3.X to low 4.X).

This conversation's reaching the limits of my knowledge, but apparently it's advisable to avoid multi-colour mousemats for the AM due to the combination of sensor and lens causing jitter and lower malfunction speed. I'm not sure what other mice this might apply to though.

Actually the Zowie Evo has a max tracking speed of 1,52 m/s or 60 Inches Per Second :)

- I also just realized that the ikari has a Max tracking speed of 1,3 not 1,5 m/s

Edit: I found this: http://www.esreality.com/?a=longpost&id=1265679&page=4 , while searching for the term "Perfect Control"

It would seem that when you hit speeds between the max tracking speed and the malfunction point, you continue turning but at the Max Tracking Speed. At least that's how I understood it.

[Toby]

I don't know about those specs, but supposedly the Ikari has under half the malfunction speed of the A3090 (1.5 meters a second compared to somewhere around high 3.X to low 4.X).

This conversation's reaching the limits of my knowledge, but apparently it's advisable to avoid multi-colour mousemats for the AM due to the combination of sensor and lens causing jitter and lower malfunction speed. I'm not sure what other mice this might apply to though.

I'm not a fan of site stats, unless you're getting those numbers from elsewhere.

I'm seeing 2.3 for the EC1 Evo at 1000hz and 2.7 at 500hz - 470 DPI for both. I'm seeing above 3.0 on Goliathus speed mouse pad. I'm also seeing 2.38 at 1000hz and 450 DPI, as well as 3.36 at 450 DPI, 2.45 at 1150 DPI and 1.56 at 2300 DPI, with those last three being at 250hz.

If you're moving your mouse faster than the max tracking speed, but the pointer is moving at the max tracking speed, that would effectively be negative acceleration, would it not?

[simonh]

I don't know about those specs, but supposedly the Ikari has under half the malfunction speed of the A3090 (1.5 meters a second compared to somewhere around high 3.X to low 4.X).

This conversation's reaching the limits of my knowledge, but apparently it's advisable to avoid multi-colour mousemats for the AM due to the combination of sensor and lens causing jitter and lower malfunction speed. I'm not sure what other mice this might apply to though.

Well, I'm not sure of the correct technical term (al though suoy calls it "a form of negative acceleration" in my previous link), but I'm guessing it's simmilar to terminal velocity (if you're familiar with physics?) :)

EDIT: Actually, come to think about it, it's not quite the same... maybe such a term does not exist? In fact, this seems pretty specific ( i was looking for a better word, but couldnt find it) to mice, guess we'll have to invent one for now! ;)

- I'll try asking my physics teacher about it sometime today