Smaller Speaker big punch?

[Guest]

passive means it doesnt have a built in amp, it does not mean it will work with a phone

and just fyi, phones DO have an amp, or else you would not hear anything at all

 

a subwoofer usually comes with its own amp, and this is called an "active" or "powered" subwoofer, because they almost always require more power than a standard loudspeaker

I think you misunderstood me.

Why are we even talking about.

I know what passive speaker is and that phones have amps built in.

Thing is that you said that that woofer is louder than 3way speakers because it has built in amp and that does not make any sense.

[Enderman]

if i plugged the speaker into my phone it would be quiet i could fall asleep, its plugged into a sperate 250 watt amp in which i plug my phone into

yes I know that

its still a passive speaker

[Guest]

you can get decent quality home theatre subwoofers that are 500-1000W and some even up to 3000W

car subwoofers are usually a few hundred to a few thousand

PA subwoofers are usually many thousands

If you bought 500-1000W subwoofer for home use and you listen it on 30% of its rated power and your house is still above ground than salesman tricked you.

[Enderman]

I think you misunderstood me.

Why are we even talking about.

I know what passive speaker is and that phones have amps built in.

Thing is that you said that that woofer is louder than 3way speakers because it has built in amp and that does not make any sense.

if it has a dedicated amp of course it would be louder

[Guest]

yes I know that

its still a passive speaker

So what? Why does that matter?

PA speakers are passive (exept ones that are meant to be mobile and for small parties or so) and does that mean they are less loud than active equivalent?

[Enderman]

If you bought 500-1000W subwoofer for home use and you listen it on 30% of its rated power and your house is still above ground than salesman tricked you.

thats definitely not true

I have had plenty of subwoofers, including a 800W 15" car sub in my house, and it has not fallen to the ground

 

if your house falls apart with vibrations from a few subwoofers then you should seriously move because in an earthquake you will be dead.

[Guest]

if it has a dedicated amp of course it would be louder

Thats not always true too.

[Guest]

thats definitely not true

I have had plenty of subwoofers, including a 800W 15" car sub in my house, and it has not fallen to the ground

 

if your house falls apart with vibrations from a few subwoofers then you should seriously move because in an earthquake you will be dead.

its metaphor 

[Enderman]

So what? Why does that matter?

PA speakers are passive (exept ones that are meant to be mobile and for small parties or so) and does that mean they are less loud than active equivalent?

almost all PA speakers are active

i have no idea what you think PA speakers are...

 

This is a PA speaker:

and its powered because in large events it would be stupid to have to run thick cables to every loudspeaker from a single amp, which would lead to a ton of power loss

[ShearMe]

you can get decent quality home theatre subwoofers that are 500-1000W and some even up to 3000W

car subwoofers are usually a few hundred to a few thousand

PA subwoofers are usually many thousands

 

Just because that's their max rating doesn't mean that's the power level actually being used.

[Guest]

almost all PA speakers are active

i have no idea what you think PA speakers are...

 

This is a PA speaker:

-image-

and its powered because in large events it would be stupid to have to run thick cables to every loudspeaker from a single amp, which would lead to a ton of power loss

just going to leave this here

It would be extremely stupid and expensive to put batteries in all those active speakers

[Enderman]

just going to leave this here

 

 

It would be extremely stupid and expensive to put batteries in all those active speakers

you run a single power cable to the speakers, then a audio cable...

[Arty]

just going to leave this here

 

It would be extremely stupid and expensive to put batteries in all those active speakers

 I don't think he meant with battries

each one to an power outlet

but those are some nice pics

[Enderman]

Just because that's their max rating doesn't mean that's the power level actually being used.

of course, thats why you run it with an amp for the appropriate wattage

[Guest]

you run a single power cable to the speakers, then a audio cable...

Either way I think that on big events active speakers are not used.

[Guest]

of course, thats why you run it with an amp for the appropriate wattage

Also on concert cables are sometimes few hundreds meters long. It would be bad for quality if low signal cable is that long

[mr moose]

Also on concert cables are sometimes few hundreds meters long. It would be bad for quality if low signal cable is that long

 

I am having a little trouble believing you.  I can't think of many venues (superbowl maybe)  that is more than 200 metres from end to end let alone requiring a cable to run longer than that.

 

I don't know how many people in this forum actually do sound for an event the size of kiss, def leopard, acdc, etc.  I'm guessing none.  However there are a few of us that do do live sound and I think you would be surprised at how common powered speakers are nowadays.  With the evolution of lightweight class D amps more and more speakers are becoming powered reducing the need for extra cables and gear.  A balanced line level is easily good for 30 metres if not more, which is quite the distance even from a console to the stage. 

[Guest]

I am having a little trouble believing you.  I can't think of many venues (superbowl maybe)  that is more than 200 metres from end to end let alone requiring a cable to run longer than that.

 

I don't know how many people in this forum actually do sound for an event the size of kiss, def leopard, acdc, etc.  I'm guessing none.  However there are a few of us that do do live sound and I think you would be surprised at how common powered speakers are nowadays.  With the evolution of lightweight class D amps more and more speakers are becoming powered reducing the need for extra cables and gear.  A balanced line level is easily good for 30 metres if not more, which is quite the distance even from a console to the stage. 

On big concerts speakers must be placed on few strategic places that are often really far from stage. Will find you an example pic in a sec

 

see that two towers in distance?

 

also

[mr moose]

On big concerts speakers must be placed on few strategic places that are often really far from stage.

 

yeah, I am sure they are more the 200M from the stage. Do you really think when a speaker has to be a long way from the source that they are going to run a speaker cable that distance rather than either wireless or line level?

[creatip123]

first of all, you are comparing a loudspeaker to a subwoofer. These are two different things.

Also, it is very likely that the subwoofer is powered, because most are. This means its getting multiple times the power to create more noise.

 

Well, an external amp and an internal (built-in) amp are the same in principle. This means, it can't be judged automatically that 'a powered speaker is absolutely louder than a passive speaker with external amp' 

 

Let's say:

- speaker A is active. We take apart the internal amp, and measure it, and it's rated at 100W max

- speaker B is passive, and powered by an external amp. We use an amp rated at 1000W max

 

Providing the driver and the enclosure box of A and B are the same, which one do you think have the potential to go louder?

 

Also, in passive speakers, the power rating is usually rated with RMS (root mean square), while in active speakers, sometimes they use PMPO, which is kinda deceiving

[Guest]

yeah, I am sure they are more the 200M from the stage. Do you really think when a speaker has to be a long way from the source that they are going to run a speaker cable that distance rather than either wireless or line level?

They use cables because of strict latency of signal.

[mr moose]

snip pretty pictures

 

And you reckon there are no amp racks under those towers? that the speaker cable is "a few hundred" metres long?

[mr moose]

They use cables because of strict latency of signal.

 

righto.  how often do you do this sort of thing?

[Guest]

righto.  how often do you do this sort of thing?

I cant measure how often I do that because I love that and time passes without noticing

if you meant on how much time I spent thinking about this stuff

[mr moose]

I cant measure how often I do that because I love that and time passes without noticing

 

right,

 

From the onset I just want to clarify for anyone dumb enough to read me out of context that I do not and have not engineered a gig the size of monsters of rock or ozfest or lollypoloozle mcgoozle.

 

 

now,  when you have a setup of that size, latency in the audio stream (be it wireless or cable) is moot, the distance of the second and third set of speakers from the stage needs to be accounted for with a delay in the signal so that you do not get echo and phase cancellation.  This is because the signal (regardless of wireless or cable) will travel to the second and third towers significantly quicker than the sound wave from the stage.  Failing to do this will; land you with shit sound, hard to manage and an angry crowd.