Same Sex Marriage? (your view)

[Whiskers]

To be completely honest, I don't know why he would not disdain it. A little context, he was speaking at the Secular student alliance in Texas. I urge you to continue the video, because there is a lot of information in there in regards to biblical origins. 

You mentioned people failing to see the beauty and philosophy, well you would be fooling yourself if you looked at history and came to the conclusion that religion is a force for good in the world. Yes people are subject to be good natured but that doesn't mean religion has n impact on human nature. Give me one example of a good thing that religion has done, and ask yourself 'could a nonreligious person do the same thing?'

 

It could be argued that religion has over the time of its existence given hope and meaning to many a person's life. Religion has been directly responsible for many atrocities in our world, but it's not entirely fair to suggest that it's never been the cause of good.

 

Plus it could be argued that religion helped to civilise our species. In spite of the bad things that happened as a result of it, in the bigger picture religion helped us to grow intellectually and culturally as a people.

[beebskadoo]

It could be argued that religion has over the time of its existence given hope and meaning to many a person's life. Religion has been directly responsible for many atrocities in our world, but it's not entirely fair to suggest that it's never been the cause of good.

 

Plus it could be argued that religion helped to civilise our species. In spite of the bad things that happened as a result of it, in the bigger picture religion helped us to grow intellectually and culturally as a people.

People are the source of good, not their religious beliefs. Technology helped us become civilized, not religion. Religion has always taken us backwards.Look at the dark ages...Look at now, in the us there has been this outcry against stem cell research. Something that would help millions of people is being dictated against by religious people. Look at the civil rights issues in the US, every single advancement was held back by religious bigots. Up until 1863, blacks were considered subhuman slaves, but had the bible actually said something against slavery, maybe it wouldn't have taken as long or happened at all. But the bible doesn't speak against slavery, it encourages it! Along with Rape, torture, murder, tribal genocide, and many other atrocities So the fact is people choose not to 'believe' the bible when it comes to those things and just skip those sections during church. The fact is they are in there and regardless of the fact some claim it's a mistranslation, it's still in there and no one is changing it...

[mr moose]

To be completely honest, I don't know why he would not disdain it. A little context, he was speaking at the Secular student alliance in Texas. I urge you to continue the video, because there is a lot of information in there in regards to biblical origins. 

You mentioned people failing to see the beauty and philosophy, well you would be fooling yourself if you looked at history and came to the conclusion that religion is a force for good in the world. Yes people are subject to be good natured but that doesn't mean religion has n impact on human nature. Give me one example of a good thing that religion has done, and ask yourself 'could a nonreligious person do the same thing?'

 

It's not a debate about whether people have the ability to be good or not,  everyone has the ability to be morally upright, decent caring people. I have good friends that are Atheists and have started and maintain a local charity helping families who suffer sudden and life changing events (cancer, accident, loss of a parent or spouse). I have never said that you have to be religious to be "good". 

 

Historically nearly all of the worlds charity organisations (world vision, red cross, aged care, orphanages, salvo's etc) were started by the religious orders. It's not that the secular world can't, it's not that governments can't, but that they didn't and it was a long time before governments realised they were necessary and started funding the religious orders to keep it going.  Some people hate religion and that is fine, you are entitled to believe of it what you want. But the cold hard facts are that they have done a serious amount of work that cannot simply be dismissed.  In Australia we currently have 33% of our schools funded by and run by religious orders, 80% of aged care are run by religious orders and 50% of youth service including emergency intervention services are run by religious orders. The reason people don't know this and think religious orders are irrelevant is because most of them do not advertise that they are religious and place no expectations on clients, a real separation of church and it's services. They are so well entrenched in the functioning of our society today only because in early history they were the bulk of the ones compelled to help the less fortunate.  I put it to you that that compulsion came from their philosophical beliefs not from there inane ability to be good if they want. 

[mr moose]

People are the source of good, not their religious beliefs. Technology helped us become civilized, not religion. Religion has always taken us backwards.Look at the dark ages...Look at now, in the us there has been this outcry against stem cell research. Something that would help millions of people is being dictated against by religious people. Look at the civil rights issues in the US, every single advancement was held back by religious bigots. Up until 1863, blacks were considered subhuman slaves, but had the bible actually said something against slavery, maybe it wouldn't have taken as long or happened at all. But the bible doesn't speak against slavery, it encourages it! Along with Rape, torture, murder, tribal genocide, and many other atrocities So the fact is people choose not to 'believe' the bible when it comes to those things and just skip those sections during church. The fact is they are in there and regardless of the fact some claim it's a mistranslation, it's still in there and no one is changing it...

 

 

Can you tell me what percentage of religious people are actually opposed to stem cell research? I put it to you that it is a vocal minority, just like the wankers opposed to gay marriage and the morons who think the world is only 8000 years old.  While the silent majority of Christians are still in Africa trying to eradicate aids,  stop poverty and help the homeless. 

[beebskadoo]

It's not a debate about whether people have the ability to be good or not,  everyone has the ability to be morally upright, decent caring people. I have good friends that are Atheists and have started and maintain a local charity helping families who suffer sudden and life changing events (cancer, accident, loss of a parent or spouse). I have never said that you have to be religious to be "good". 

 

Historically nearly all of the worlds charity organisations (world vision, red cross, aged care, orphanages, salvo's etc) were started by the religious orders. It's not that the secular world can't, it's not that governments can't, but that they didn't and it was a long time before governments realised they were necessary and started funding the religious orders to keep it going.  Some people hate religion and that is fine, you are entitled to believe of it what you want. But the cold hard facts are that they have done a serious amount of work that cannot simply be dismissed.  In Australia we currently have 33% of our schools funded by and run by religious orders, 80% of aged care are run by religious orders and 50% of youth service including emergency intervention services are run by religious orders. The reason people don't know this and think religious orders are irrelevant is because most of them do not advertise that they are religious and place no expectations on clients, a real separation of church and it's services. They are so well entrenched in the functioning of our society today only because in early history they were the bulk of the ones compelled to help the less fortunate.  I put it to you that that compulsion came from their philosophical beliefs not from there inane ability to be good if they want. 

I don't hate religion, I see it as a vestigial trait that we should dump asap, I see absolutely no reason for its existence.

[mr moose]

I don't hate religion, I see it as a vestigial trait that we should dump asap, I see absolutely no reason for its existence.

But as I just pointed out, their current existence is not vestigial, it is the backbone of our social welfare system.  There are not enough resources in Australia to cover the short fall if all the religious people suddenly became selfish and stopped giving.

[Whiskers]

People are the source of good, not their religious beliefs. Technology helped us become civilized, not religion. Religion has always taken us backwards.Look at the dark ages...Look at now, in the us there has been this outcry against stem cell research. Something that would help millions of people is being dictated against by religious people. Look at the civil rights issues in the US, every single advancement was held back by religious bigots. Up until 1863, blacks were considered subhuman slaves, but had the bible actually said something against slavery, maybe it wouldn't have taken as long or happened at all. But the bible doesn't speak against slavery, it encourages it! Along with Rape, torture, murder, tribal genocide, and many other atrocities So the fact is people choose not to 'believe' the bible when it comes to those things and just skip those sections during church. The fact is they are in there and regardless of the fact some claim it's a mistranslation, it's still in there and no one is changing it...

 

We have been culturally evolving since long before technology as we know it existed. It seems to me that our largest growths were kickstarted by religion for a very long time. Science, in an odd way, is just another religion - it gives us the same thing religion gave others a long time ago. It serves the same purposes, but does so in different ways with different rules.

 

Religion is, in my opinion, dying off - I believe it's losing relevance and purpose in our modern day world. But it's not dead, and ought not be disregarded immediately whilst there are still those who believe in it. With time and patience I expect the prevalence of (at the very least 'organised') religion to die off significantly, as I believe it should.

[beebskadoo]

Can you tell me what percentage of religious people are actually opposed to stem cell research? I put it to you that it is a vocal minority, just like the wankers opposed to gay marriage and the morons who think the world is only 8000 years old.  While the silent majority of Christians are still in Africa trying to eradicate aids,  stop poverty and help the homeless. 

Once again, it's different where you live. Every church that i have been to has eventually voiced disapproval of stem cell research because of the lack of understanding. It is not a vocal minority, These are the same people that oppose stem cell research in the US are the same ones that are opposed to same sex marriage. only 12 states recognize same sex marriage and in states like mine it is legal for someone who is LGBT to be fired for being born the way they are. You wound't believe the amount of misinformation out there on the subject. See the indoctrination of children is what bugs me the most, My 5 year old niece went to church and was telling her Sunday school teacher about my boyfriend and I. The teacher immediately told her that it's wrong in gods eyes and f we didn't repent we would go to hell. a 5 year old! 

 

In regards to the AIDS crises in Africa, the catholic church gives money and medicine and bibles but no contraception or birth control. and it is a proven fact that the availability of contraception is better than the teaching of abstinence.  

 

Anyway, there are countries that are way better socially advanced than the US because their morals are purely secular and not based solely on a book.

[beebskadoo]

But as I just pointed out, their current existence is not vestigial, it is the backbone of our social welfare system.  There are not enough resources in Australia to cover the short fall if all the religious people suddenly became selfish and stopped giving.

I have to take your word for it because I'm not that familiar with Australia. 

[beebskadoo]

We have been culturally evolving since long before technology as we know it existed. It seems to me that our largest growths were kickstarted by religion for a very long time. Science, in an odd way, is just another religion - it gives us the same thing religion gave others a long time ago. It serves the same purposes, but does so in different ways with different rules.

 

Religion is, in my opinion, dying off - I believe it's losing relevance and purpose in our modern day world. But it's not dead, and ought not be disregarded immediately whilst there are still those who believe in it. With time and patience I expect the prevalence of (at the very least 'organised') religion to die off significantly, as I believe it should.

I was not speaking of modern technology solely, i was speaking of major advancements in the way we use tools and improve our lives. By that definition, we have evolved as a society alongside both religion and technology but technology has advanced our species more than religion has. 

[mr moose]

Once again, it's different where you live. Every church that i have been to has eventually voiced disapproval of stem cell research because of the lack of understanding. It is not a vocal minority, These are the same people that oppose stem cell research in the US are the same ones that are opposed to same sex marriage. only 12 states recognize same sex marriage and in states like mine it is legal for someone who is LGBT to be fired for being born the way they are. You wound't believe the amount of misinformation out there on the subject. See the indoctrination of children is what bugs me the most, My 5 year old niece went to church and was telling her Sunday school teacher about my boyfriend and I. The teacher immediately told her that it's wrong in gods eyes and f we didn't repent we would go to hell. a 5 year old! 

 

In regards to the AIDS crises in Africa, the catholic church gives money and medicine and bibles but no contraception or birth control. and it is a proven fact that the availability of contraception is better than the teaching of abstinence.  

 

Anyway, there are countries that are way better socially advanced than the US because their morals are purely secular and not based solely on a book.

 

I am sorry about your experiences, I am told Australia is the most racists and intolerant country but I think it might take a second seat to the USA, we have active gay priests, the church supports medical research.

 

With regard to Africa,  The catholic church has not stopped or prevented anyone from using condoms, it has not prevented anyone from giving them out or supplying them to Africa, Curious that it is still considered he largest aid provider to Africa for the prevention  and treatment of aids.  Were is everyone else? why aren't the people who whinge about the churches stance on condoms not supplying them or at least matching the churches aid efforts? It is so easy to say how they are doing it wrong but no one will accept the fact that they are still doing more (if not the most effective way) than anyone else.

[Whiskers]

I was not speaking of modern technology solely, i was speaking of major advancements in the way we use tools and improve our lives. By that definition, we have evolved as a society alongside both religion and technology but technology has advanced our species more than religion has. 

 

You could look at it that way, but let's be fair. Until the advent of the internet and computers technology was nothing more than a tool to be used. It makes our lives more convenient, safer and easier and enables us to do things that we otherwise couldn't, wouldn't or shouldn't. But it is still just a tool which we use - religion is a belief. One's beliefs are tremendously important as they influence our perspective on things and the decisions we make before taking action or inaction.

 

Religion influenced lives, tools made them easier. Religion gave us civilisation as we know it, technology helped us build it faster.

[mr moose]

I have to take your word for it because I'm not that familiar with Australia. 

It's all online, Although I have to admit its not easy to find the official reports and papers. Social welfare/sciences are a pet study of mine so I have already read most of it. The one that took me the longest to find was the government report into the state of social welfare funding In Australia and the role of not for  profit organisations. Took  2 weeks of on off searching through seemingly non indexed government libraries.

[beebskadoo]

It's all online, Although I have to admit its not easy to find the official reports and papers. Social welfare/sciences are a pet study of mine so I have already read most of it. The one that took me the longest to find was the government report into the state of social welfare funding In Australia and the role of not for  profit organisations. Took  2 weeks of on off searching through seemingly non indexed government libraries.

Christ, wish i had he time for something like that. I have done some searching for things like that but i haven't turned up anything of substance.

[beebskadoo]

You could look at it that way, but let's be fair. Until the advent of the internet and computers technology was nothing more than a tool to be used. It makes our lives more convenient, safer and easier and enables us to do things that we otherwise couldn't, wouldn't or shouldn't. But it is still just a tool which we use - religion is a belief. One's beliefs are tremendously important as they influence our perspective on things and the decisions we make before taking action or inaction.

 

Religion influenced lives, tools made them easier. Religion gave us civilisation as we know it, technology helped us build it faster.

I will say this, Religion brings people together and in early civilization it was good and bad. good because it was a lot easier to advance your culture but bad because people started committing terrible injustices toward others that didn't share their faith. 

[mr moose]

Christ, wish i had he time for something like that. I have done some searching for things like that but i haven't turned up anything of substance.

its a hobby, also I am a full time carer, so I have time for it every now and then.  Those government department's are atrocious for obtaining information. In Australia they must make it available, but I am sure they don't want me to know about it so make it as un-intuitive as possible.

[beebskadoo]

its a hobby, also I am a full time carer, so I have time for it every now and then.  Those government department's are atrocious for obtaining information. In Australia they must make it available, but I am sure they don't want me to know about it so make it as un-intuitive as possible.

Better than my gov't, they try to keep everything a secret. I have a lt of hobbies but only a little time for everything. Government and politics aren't exactly my favorites but i know a bit.

[Whiskers]

I will say this, Religion brings people together and in early civilization it was good and bad. good because it was a lot easier to advance your culture but bad because people started committing terrible injustices toward others that didn't share their faith. 

 

Such is the way almost anything goes, really. Both World Wars brought a lot of death and destruction, but they also brought technical revolutions in warfare and medicine for a somewhat extreme example.

 

I tend to blame religious extremists for the bad things caused by religion, and feel sorry for normal religious folk who get caught up in it all. I wouldn't blame the religion itself, per se.

[mr moose]

Better than my gov't, they try to keep everything a secret. I have a lt of hobbies but only a little time for everything. Government and politics aren't exactly my favorites but i know a bit.

I used to be big on politics, but we are in an election year and the barrage of BS is absolutely incredible this time round, even the poltifact (pliticrap) website is full of rubbish and half truths.

 

I concentrate now on people until after the election, maybe I'll pick it up again or maybe I'll become one of the armchair experts that just bags everything that immediately effect me.

 

I am convinced there is a bigger issue at stake with regard to gay marriage here in Aust because hardly any of the poli's are religious and the one leader who is has said his party will only vote no during this term because that was the party policy at the last election and the next election things change, take from that what you will it seems fairly non-committal but better than an blanket no. I fear there is financial cost of allowing gay marriage that we are not told about.

[beebskadoo]

Such is the way almost anything goes, really. Both World Wars brought a lot of death and destruction, but they also brought technical revolutions in warfare and medicine for a somewhat extreme example.

 

I tend to blame religious extremists for the bad things caused by religion, and feel sorry for normal religious folk who get caught up in it all. I wouldn't blame the religion itself, per se.

I guess it comes down to this. 

1. There are a lot of evil things in the bible. A lot of things that are backward and considered morally wrong.

2. The fact that some people have truly believed those things and committed terrible acts in the name of god in accordance to his word is a testament to the true nature of what's written and what is implied to believe. 

3. the people who don't believe those things are not believing those things due to modern secular morality derived from an evolved society. Not what it says in the bible because it says otherwise. 

I hope you understand what I am trying to get at. My brain isn't functioning correctly due to influenza and lack of sleep:)

[beebskadoo]

I used to be big on politics, but we are in an election year and the barrage of BS is absolutely incredible this time round, even the poltifact (pliticrap) website is full of rubbish and half truths.

 

I concentrate now on people until after the election, maybe I'll pick it up again or maybe I'll become one of the armchair experts that just bags everything that immediately effect me.

 

I am convinced there is a bigger issue at stake with regard to gay marriage here in Aust because hardly any of the poli's are religious and the one leader who is has said his party will only vote no during this term because that was the party policy at the last election and the next election things change, take from that what you will it seems fairly non-committal but better than an blanket no. I fear there is financial cost of allowing gay marriage that we are not told about.

What makes you say that? (about the hidden financial cost for gay marriage)

[mr moose]

What makes you say that? (about the hidden financial cost for gay marriage)

 

Because the first party in Australia to promise gay marriage will win a very tight election, but neither party are so I am lead to think there is more to it than meets the eye and in Australia there are bucket loads of tax advantages to being married, I am really just speculating but I can't see any other logical reason for it.

[MJSBLUES]

like i said , i just feel offended.i don`t want to see them or know them. ofc you can go and do whatever you want.its just my opinion. damn

But you can't justify your opinion at all, and you don't explain why they offend you, so how do you feel 'offended' by them?

[Wiggly Jiggles]

I'm fine with same sex-couples and same-sex marriages. But, I do see both sides of the argument; I feel life’s better that way.

[mxthunder]

its wrong, plain and simple. its not the way humans were designed. there is a reason there are two sexes