NVIDIA Responds to GTX 970 3.5GB Memory Issue

[johnnysasaki]

This was posted on /r/pcmasterrace. It's picture-perfect. Myself I was either going to jump on the 970 bandwagon, or hold to my cash and wait for the R9 3xx series. Kind of an easy pick at the moment.

[T4cC0re]

I have made some research with mine and a friends card and came to the conclusion, that this 0.5GiB this is total bullshit...

https://secure.xendosoft.de/?p=90

Short from:

 

 

 

Counting in all the facts, my resume is that NVidia just tired to give a plausible answer to not have to recall it’s pretty much most successful card right away. But they screwed up, because the explanation they provided does not match up with the fact, that there is indeed more slow RAM on the card as they said and that there are cards that are not affected at all.

[GoodBytes]

What if I told you that there is a possibility that the driver has a bug managing the memory in the 512MB memory segment?

It could perfectly be the case. Windows XP act like if you are low memory even if you have 4GB of RAM, it dumps everything on page file very aggressively. I think you recall the days where when you quit a game, then your HDD is under heavy load restoring your desktop, to a point where you see elements draw on your screen, or large programs taking time to come back from minimize, where you HDD is also under heavy load.

My vote is on driver bug or firmware bug.

[BiG StroOnZ]

Well yes, but then there is Star Citizen. Which just immediatly fills up the pool like all cryengine 3 games. Even at normal settings 1080p. As soon as i start walking around the hanger my frametimes are all over the place when it hits over 3.5GB.

 

I bought the card for Star Citizen/Arena Commander mostly. And this game is, to me, unplayable with the frametimes it has because of this issue.

 

Well, it would just have to be Star Citizen because Crysis 3 doesn't use a lot of VRAM typically. There are a few levels where it does, but most levels are pretty low even at high resolutions. Crysis 3 is pretty well optimized in that regard. I've also heard of some complaints about Star Citizen regarding its current state. So that probably is because of the game itself. I mean the game's initial release date is not until 2016. So things of that nature can be expected.

[Metrize]

I hope its a driver bug even if it isn't 3.5GB is enough tbh

[TroubleKlef]

 

Selling beautiful horse with 4 healthy legs. Well... the 4th leg is not actually 100% efficient but its a 4th leg! The horse can walk around just as equal as a real 4 legged horse but don't do any type of strenuous activity that could stress the 4th leg! 

[Khvarrioiren]

You mean performance goes down when you increase the load stress of memory? What new exciting find is waiting to be made next? Water is wet? I'm on the edge of my seat!

.... you realize that you haven't shown shit, right? Someone needs a full graph showing the threshold where the possible memory issue is causing performance to tank - rather than just simply the load. You don't get a 1:1 ratio with memory usage and frames.

Drastic drops like that arent normal even when close to the maximum amount of memory saturated. Hope your denial keeps you somewhat happy.

[Faa]

I have made some research with mine and a friends card and came to the conclusion, that this 0.5GiB this is total bullshit...

https://secure.xendosoft.de/?p=90

Short from:

Well, http://www.phoronix.net/image.php?id=nvidia_geforce_gtx970ℑ=nvidia_gtx970_7_show&w=3440

DL the picture, zoom in with a pic viewer, you'll see K4G41325FC and according to Samsung this memory chip is only sold as a 4GB Package; http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/product/graphic-dram/catalogue

[GoodBytes]

Well, http://www.phoronix.net/image.php?id=nvidia_geforce_gtx970ℑ=nvidia_gtx970_7_show&w=3440

DL the picture, zoom in with a pic viewer, you'll see K4G41325FC and according to Samsung this memory chip is only sold as a 4GB Package; http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/product/graphic-dram/catalogue

To add:

It's not 3.5GB + 512MB chip. First there is no 3.5GB chip. Second, even if there is, it is how the memory is manage. The card can split the memory as it likes. Third, all memory chips performance and timing goes with the slowest one. Much like your RAM. If you put 3000MHz RAM modules with timing of 1-1-1, and then in 1 single slot you put 333MHz 50-50-50, then they'll all go at 333MHz with timings of 50-50-50 (assuming that would even work).

The card has 4GB of memory. Much like when you have an HDD and in Windows you fill it up to capacity. Guess what, performance will be ultra sucky. It doesn't mean that your HDD has a a mini HDD inside of lower performance. It's just how Windows file system works.

In this case, my guess, is that there is a driver bug which probably uses the system RAM as extension of the graphics card when it passes 3.5GB, and still fill the GPU memory at the same time, but the driver only look at the system RAM, or something bizarre of such fashion.

[Rock1m1]

It's not 3.5GB + 512MB chip. First there is no 3.5GB chip. Second, even if there is, it is how the memory is manage. The card can split the memory as it likes.

The card has 4GB of memory. Much like when you have an HDD and in Windows you fill it up to capacity. Guess what, performance will be ultra sucky. It doesn't mean that your HDD has a a mini HDD inside of lower performance. It's just how Windows file system works.

 

The split is not the problem here, but the drastic drop in bandwidth in the final 512 mb module is the problem.

[GoodBytes]

The split is not the problem here, but the drastic drop in bandwidth in the final 512 mb module is the problem.

Check my updated post.

[McMurderMonkey]

: /

This is the type of thing we shouldn't really have to expect from the people who have spent so long designing these things.

[Snickerzz]

 

Selling beautiful horse with 4 healthy legs. Well... the 4th leg is not actually 100% efficient but its a 4th leg! The horse can walk around just as equal as a real 4 legged horse but don't do any type of strenuous activity that could stress the 4th leg! 

HOW MUCH?!

[Faa]

It's not 3.5GB + 512MB chip. First there is no 3.5GB chip. Second, even if there is, it is how the memory is manage. The card can split the memory as it likes. Third, all memory chips performance and timing goes with the slowest one. Much like your RAM. If you put 3000MHz RAM modules with timing of 1-1-1, and then in 1 single slot you put 333MHz 50-50-50, then they'll all go at 333MHz with timings of 50-50-50 (assuming that would even work).

The card has 4GB of memory. Much like when you have an HDD and in Windows you fill it up to capacity. Guess what, performance will be ultra sucky. It doesn't mean that your HDD has a a mini HDD inside of lower performance. It's just how Windows file system works.

In this case, my guess, is that there is a driver bug which probably uses the system RAM as extension of the graphics card when it passes 3.5GB, and still fill the GPU memory at the same time, but the driver only look at the system RAM, or something bizarre of such fashion.

Think you quoted the wrong person, read my post again. And yes it's a driver/fw bug

[TroubleKlef]

HOW MUCH?!

 

Same price as a fully able horse that can walk around.

 

AND I'll even cover up the prosthetic with fake horse hair and let you find out yourself that its not a fully able 4th leg! 

[Snickerzz]

Same price as a fully able horse that can walk around.

 

AND I'll even cover up the prosthetic with fake horse hair and let you find out yourself that its not a fully able 4th leg! 

so like, $50?

[GoodBytes]

Think you quoted the wrong person, read my post again. And yes it's a driver/fw bug

Oh I wanted to add to yours. I edited my post. Thanks.

[Shahnewaz]

Not again Nvidia, not again.

Bumpgate, wood screws..... WTF Nvidia?

First, I got burned buying the 680

Then the 970 has coil whine issue

Now this?

 

No don't tell me just get the 980! That's exactly what NGreedia wants you to do. I don't want a $600 980!

 

That's it mate, that's it. F*ck Nvidia. I'm done.

Now I regret recommending the 970 to my friend. GOD DAMMIT NV!

 

MemoryGate. Anyone got better ones?

[GoodBytes]

680? What is wrong with the 680?

The coil whine issue can be many things.

-> Manufacture cutting corners. Is your 970 reference design?

-> Did you try and call the manufacture or store for replacement?

-> Coil whine noise is system configuration. Changing the PSU can solve or create the problem. Moving location can also fix/create the problem. Motherboard too. In my case, my GTX 260 was silent. But since I build my i7 930 several years ago, it made a whine noise, despite playing the same games. So there are many factors. It depends on the current passing through the coils and how they vibrate making a audible noise or not.

[NormalJoe]

ITT nvidia white knights.

 

Listen guys nvidia makes billions of dollars , they dont need you be their white knights.

 

They fucked up and concealed a real problem from the consumer.

[Guest]

ITT nvidia white knights.

 

Listen guys nvidia makes billions of dollars , they dont need you be their white knights.

 

They fucked up and concealed a real problem from the consumer.

using common sense does not make one a white knight or a fanboy.

[GoodBytes]

ITT nvidia white knights.

 

Listen guys nvidia makes billions of dollars , they dont need you be their white knights.

 

They fucked up and concealed a real problem from the consumer.

Yes, Nvidia makes billions of dollars. But did you know it cost billions of dollars to make a new GPU architecture?

For the exception of Intel as they are pretty much a monopoly and they can charge what they feel like on their CPUs and people/manufacture will but due to lack of proper competition, hardware business doesn't make much money, sadly. Margins are usually not big compared to the rest of the industry.

And no, there is no point for Nvidia to lie for anything. Graphics card is not like gaming, or other technology product. Nvidia can release their new card December 25th or January 1st, where normally sales would be abysmal, but for graphics card, it is a no problem. Sales are always strong. Same applies for AMD for their Radeons. The reason is that the majority of people who buy Nvidia or AMD graphics card or computer parts knows about a coming one, and those who want to get it, have money saved up for. It is rare that people gives high-end graphics card as gifts. Nor does Nvidia or AMD have specific dates to release something else people will buy another product. Like for example games: Games needs to be released at specific deadlines, else the following month some big game can be released and people would buy that game instead. People won't go "I want this Nvidia GPU.. oh its delay, darn.. WOW new Intel CPU! Forget that Nvidia GPU, I am buying that new CPU!". No. If you need a CPU, you probably need a whole computer, and in any case you'll buy that graphics card.

So if it was a genuine issue they knew about, they could have delayed it without any repercussions, allowing them to fix it.

Nvidia (and of course Intel, AMD, Texas Instrument, and basically anyone making processors) tests very well their cards. But what happens when a test made is flawed?, but no one noticed it, or thought it was good? Remember that most tests are run under simulators. So they can't go "Hey let's play these games!" The simulators, despite massively powerful, aren't able to play games. Also, another problem, is what happens is every test passes, but a combination of doing things makes this happen under the specific situation that the memory is nearly full?

What if, everything on the hardware side of thing is perfect (which is most likely the case), but the driver team made a mistake, or miss implement the structure it need to do in memory management with this architecture when 512MB remains on the GPU (most likely).

There is no defending Nvidia here. There is only discussion on what possibly is the problem. No one here is saying "There is no problem, it's the game fault", or something.

Everyone agrees it is a problem with Nvidia. But the discussion is on What, How, and Why?. We do this because it is fun, we are curious, we try to understand the problem on something we know nothing about, which is a bit irrational, but human thing to do.

[Faa]

Oh I wanted to add to yours. I edited my post. Thanks.

I just don't get why this issue is so much of a hit, when AMD has some massive DirectX CPU overhead performance issues going on for like a year long when they even released a new API Mantle (everyone is hyping about it 24/7) to counter CPU overhead. I make a thread here; http://www.overclock.net/t/1528559/directx-driver-overhead-and-why-mantle-is-a-selling-point-bunch-of-benchmarks/100_100

Mantle is only doing well against their own DX but against Nvidia's the difference is non-existent. Their DX has been so horrible to a point a 760 was wrecking a 290x which obviously includes a 295x2. That thread I made was linked to AMD's driver team by the AMD rep @ OCN, 2 months later still no response. They most likely won't fix it, if they do it's bye bye Mantle thats been a lie.

 

 

Then the 970 has coil whine issue

Now this?

The coils aren't glued, even manufacturers like Asus claims to do it but it's quite BS. I probably went through 15 cards last years, all of them whined. If you get 60 fps at 99% usage with coil whine, try capping your frames to 30 to the GPU usage drops to around 50% see if the whining noise goes away. If yes, buy a 2nd GPU, so each would run at 50% usage providing 60 fps. Thats how I deal with coil whine these days. Just gotta aim for lower GPU usages. Pretty sure none of the cards I had were whining at 50% usage - the higher the load the noisier the whining noise is.

[NormalJoe]

using common sense does not make one a white knight or a fanboy.

 

Its a known issue , many people cant use more than 3.5 in games.

 

Just because you are a straw man and cant search for the contless reports in this forum

and guru 3d related to actual game stuttering after the 3.5 vram mark.

 

Nvidia concellead it from the public , werent honest and only fessed up when truth came out.

 

Now go buy a nvidia sticker and a tshirt  or something .

Im tired of people defending nvidia.

[Lewellyn]

Drastic drops like that arent normal even when close to the maximum amount of memory saturated. Hope your denial keeps you somewhat happy.

 

Don't go into science... ever.... he gave three data points. You need to get your head out of your ass.