LTT Think Tank for New Modem Router and Switch

[Optimus Prime]

Howdy LTT

 

So I am currently searching the internet at the moment reading up on networking and networking related paraphernalia and I will just say this, I hate it

 

 

So now that I have declared my undying hatred of networking, long live hardware and software.... well maybe not software lmao

 

So I am looking for recommendations for the following

 

Modem Router

 

Switch

 

Cable 

 

 

Now I could do the *insert on-line computer retailer*, go to the networking section, click on Modem Router and sort by Price - High to Low and buy the most expensive thing on the page. I have also read reviews and spec sheets on SOME modem routers but they don't have tell the whole story for real world use cases.

I also do not know where a good place to go nor am I willing to trawl through websites for hours on end and read specs that I still barely understand.

 

So what am I looking for in a Modem Router

At least one WLan port (a given since I need to connect the internet cable into something....duhh)

At least 4 x Lan ports - more ports are better and lessen the need for a switch *

Wireless AC

Wireless connectivity for up to 10 devices simultaneously at minimum

Highest average real world performance when used with multiple devices *

RELIABILITY!!!!! 

 

*The devices connected are as follows (note some of these are on the wishlist to buy) (note these are only the devices in the house, not counting people coming over bring there own laptops, tablets and phones

3 x PC's

1 x HTPC

5 x Game consoles

3 x Laptops

1 x Tablet

1 x Ipod Touch

4 x Mobiles

1 x Foxtel digital HD Box

1 x Nas

**I understand there can only be so much bandwidth provided and that the router will distribute the bandwidth where required but for one person to get majority of the internet whilst everyone is yelling about slow internet is disappointing.

***We have one of the higher end Telstra packages for our area which is no slouch. It could be alot better but it's what we can afford

 

Switch and Cable

Highest average real world performance when used with multiple devices *

RELIABILITY!!!!! 

 

Cheers

 

Optimus

[Jerakl]

I think Linus got your router covered

 

/thread

If you have that many devices... Holy crap... Some money will be spent.

[Optimus Prime]

I think Linus got your router covered

 

 

Ok, I watched that one originally, rewatched it again with intent to buy. Definitely on my list to buy. Are there any other options?

 

/thread

If you have that many devices... Holy crap... Some money will be spent.

Yes, some money has been spent lmao and more shall be spent hahaaha

[Jerakl]

Ok, I watched that one originally, rewatched it again with intent to buy. Definitely on my list to buy. Are there any other options?

 

Yes, some money has been spent lmao and more shall be spent hahaaha

You know, for a thousand dollars. You have A LOT OF OTHER OPTIONS. Just, how many of them will be viable. And what's your budget. (the sky?).

 

I'm assuming this is for your house right?

[Optimus Prime]

You know, for a thousand dollars. You have A LOT OF OTHER OPTIONS. Just, how many of them will be viable. And what's your budget. (the sky?).

I'm assuming this is for your house right?

2k AUD max.....

But it has to be worth it

Yes it's a home

[Optimus Prime]

So what about Switch?

 

As there are no Lan ports that I can tell, them I am in need of a decent switch or *insert name* to run the lan cables from

 

Optimus

[Optimus Prime]

Help?

Hello?

[Optimus Prime]

So the R700 is an access point.

I still need a router

[Optimus Prime]

Its best to ask your ISP for the brands and models of modem/router that will work your service.

If they don't specify or the the R700 is supported, then the ethernet cable that our service comes through can just be plugged into the R700's WAN port.

So run one internet cable into one of the ports than run another cable into a network switch?

Do I understand right?

[costin.buga]

What type of wan connection do you have? Rj45 or rj12 ? If it's rj45 i'd go for the asus ac68u.

How big is your home? If it's relatiely small, you should place the router somewhere in the middle so you will get wireless coverage in the whole house. If it's a big house i'd suggest putting the router in one part if the house than run an ethernet cable to another part of the house and connect an AP to extend wireless. The AP can be another asus ac68u used as AP.

For the switch... if you get 2 routers, you will have 6 lan ports to connect devices.

If nou need more or in diffrent rooms, you can get a 8port unmanaged gigabit switch for about 20$.

For cable, cat5e should be enough, if you want overkill, use cat6.

The whole setup should cost about 400$, for the big house version.

[Optimus Prime]

What type of wan connection do you have? Rj45 or rj12 ? If it's rj45 i'd go for the asus ac68u.

How big is your home? If it's relatiely small, you should place the router somewhere in the middle so you will get wireless coverage in the whole house. If it's a big house i'd suggest putting the router in one part if the house than run an ethernet cable to another part of the house and connect an AP to extend wireless. The AP can be another asus ac68u used as AP.

For the switch... if you get 2 routers, you will have 6 lan ports to connect devices.

If nou need more or in diffrent rooms, you can get a 8port unmanaged gigabit switch for about 20$.

For cable, cat5e should be enough, if you want overkill, use cat6.

The whole setup should cost about 400$, for the big house version.

 

No idea what the difference is for the RJ question

My use case closely resembles the torture test used for the R700

Router placement will be downstairs against the back wall and slighly to the right of dead center (non negotiable )

[Blade of Grass]

Do you really want to spent $2k?

If so, then I would suggest a Ubiquiti EdgeRouter/uniFi Secure Gateway, Edge Switch/uniFi Switch, and multiple uniFi AP AC.

The Edge lineup is carrier grade gear, extremely robust and powerful. The uniFi stuff is more classic networking gear, aw it can all be controlled by a central server (running the uniFi controller). I said multiple APs because you'll get better coverage and performance. They're all very capable gear.

[Optimus Prime]

Do you really want to spent $2k?

If so, then I would suggest a Ubiquiti EdgeRouter/uniFi Secure Gateway, Edge Switch/uniFi Switch, and multiple uniFi AP AC.

The Edge lineup is carrier grade gear, extremely robust and powerful. The uniFi stuff is more classic networking gear, aw it can all be controlled by a central server (running the uniFi controller). I said multiple APs because you'll get better coverage and performance. They're all very capable gear.

 

I want to spend to hard earned money on a superior networking infrastructure. I don't want gold plated external casings but I am after performance that meets or exceeds the torture test that Linus used for the R700 review. I wish I knew more and didn't have to ask these questions as I am sure they come up so often. 2K is the limit on my credit card. I have savings but I would rather repay a credit card off and get it as soon as possible than wait a couple of weeks to organise the monies.

 

I have grown tired of consumer grade hardware dieing after only 6 - 12 months of usage

 

Also I thank you for your recommendation 

Edited December 23, 2014 by Optimus Prime

[dalekphalm]

Howdy LTT

 

So I am currently searching the internet at the moment reading up on networking and networking related paraphernalia and I will just say this, I hate it

 

 

So now that I have declared my undying hatred of networking, long live hardware and software.... well maybe not software lmao

 

So I am looking for recommendations for the following

 

Modem Router

 

Switch

 

Cable 

 

 

Now I could do the *insert on-line computer retailer*, go to the networking section, click on Modem Router and sort by Price - High to Low and buy the most expensive thing on the page. I have also read reviews and spec sheets on SOME modem routers but they don't have tell the whole story for real world use cases.

I also do not know where a good place to go nor am I willing to trawl through websites for hours on end and read specs that I still barely understand.

 

So what am I looking for in a Modem Router

At least one WLan port (a given since I need to connect the internet cable into something....duhh)

At least 4 x Lan ports - more ports are better and lessen the need for a switch *

Wireless AC

Wireless connectivity for up to 10 devices simultaneously at minimum

Highest average real world performance when used with multiple devices *

RELIABILITY!!!!! 

 

*The devices connected are as follows (note some of these are on the wishlist to buy) (note these are only the devices in the house, not counting people coming over bring there own laptops, tablets and phones

3 x PC's

1 x HTPC

5 x Game consoles

3 x Laptops

1 x Tablet

1 x Ipod Touch

4 x Mobiles

1 x Foxtel digital HD Box

1 x Nas

**I understand there can only be so much bandwidth provided and that the router will distribute the bandwidth where required but for one person to get majority of the internet whilst everyone is yelling about slow internet is disappointing.

***We have one of the higher end Telstra packages for our area which is no slouch. It could be alot better but it's what we can afford

 

Switch and Cable

Highest average real world performance when used with multiple devices *

RELIABILITY!!!!! 

 

Cheers

 

Optimus

First off, when you say "At least one WLAN port" on your modem/router, that's a bit confusing.

 

Depending on how you get your internet, will DIRECTLY determine what kind of modem you need. There are several types Cable (DOCSIS) Phone (DSL), True Fibre, etc.

 

A Cable Modem will have a COAX Cable port as the "WLAN port". A DSL (ADSL, VDSL, etc) will have a RJ11 Phone Jack as the "WLAN port", a Fibre Media Converter will have a special fibre jack.

 

When you say Modem Router, do you actually just mean router? Do you already have a separate Modem device?

 

A Router will always have a WLAN port, that is RJ-45 Ethernet.

 

A "Modem Router" will not have an RJ-45 Ethernet jack as the WLAN port, as it will have whatever specific type of cable input that modem/internet type needs.

 

You'll need to clarify that before continuing.

 

Next. I highly suggest getting a 4-port Router, and then routing everything through a larger Gigabit switch. It's better work design that way. You can also save money because getting a GOOD router with more than 4 ports is going to be a lot more expensive then getting a regular 4-port router + a nice big gigabit switch. Gigabit switches are pretty damn cheap. You can get good quality consumer level ones for under $50 that give you anywhere from 8-16 ports. TP-Link makes great little unmanaged switches that are workhorses. If you want a little more oompf, then you could get a CISCO Switch, or get a "smart" or "managed" switch. Keep in mind, to fully utilize a managed switch, you will need to properly configure it.

 

As for the router itself, I highly recommend the ASUS RT-AC68U if you want fairly top-of-the-line. The Linksys WRT1900AC Router that Linus features in that video is also a pretty kickass choice.

 

I personally ALWAYS recommend going with a separate Modem and Router, because it allows you greater control and flexibility, as well as allowing you to upgrade individual components as your Internet Speed gets upgraded in 3 years, or if a new Wireless standard comes out that you just have to get.

[Padunkadunk]

 I hate it

You hate it? Networking is so shmexy 

[Optimus Prime]

First off, when you say "At least one WLAN port" on your modem/router, that's a bit confusing.

 

Depending on how you get your internet, will DIRECTLY determine what kind of modem you need. There are several types Cable (DOCSIS) Phone (DSL), True Fibre, etc.

 

A Cable Modem will have a COAX Cable port as the "WLAN port". A DSL (ADSL, VDSL, etc) will have a RJ11 Phone Jack as the "WLAN port", a Fibre Media Converter will have a special fibre jack.

 

When you say Modem Router, do you actually just mean router? Do you already have a separate Modem device?

 

A Router will always have a WLAN port, that is RJ-45 Ethernet.

 

A "Modem Router" will not have an RJ-45 Ethernet jack as the WLAN port, as it will have whatever specific type of cable input that modem/internet type needs.

 

You'll need to clarify that before continuing.

 

Next. I highly suggest getting a 4-port Router, and then routing everything through a larger Gigabit switch. It's better work design that way. You can also save money because getting a GOOD router with more than 4 ports is going to be a lot more expensive then getting a regular 4-port router + a nice big gigabit switch. Gigabit switches are pretty damn cheap. You can get good quality consumer level ones for under $50 that give you anywhere from 8-16 ports. TP-Link makes great little unmanaged switches that are workhorses. If you want a little more oompf, then you could get a CISCO Switch, or get a "smart" or "managed" switch. Keep in mind, to fully utilize a managed switch, you will need to properly configure it.

 

As for the router itself, I highly recommend the ASUS RT-AC68U if you want fairly top-of-the-line. The Linksys WRT1900AC Router that Linus features in that video is also a pretty kickass choice.

 

I personally ALWAYS recommend going with a separate Modem and Router, because it allows you greater control and flexibility, as well as allowing you to upgrade individual components as your Internet Speed gets upgraded in 3 years, or if a new Wireless standard comes out that you just have to get.

The internet is ADSL2+ so that would make it an RJ11 connection than

CISCO and Netgear are not brands I am interested in as they are the brands that I have had the most troubles with

I am completely overhauling the networking capability of my home. That means new modem & router

Yes I screwed up and called it a WLAN instead of an ADSL RJ11 Port, like I said new to networking and I dislike it from my current perspective

Linksys WRT1900AC didn't do so favourably in the test compared to the R700. My home environment closes resembles the torture test

The Ubiquiti option looked quite nice

 

You hate it? Networking is so shmexy 

Yes I hate it, it's complicated and temperamental, at least from my perspective

[Optimus Prime]

Thoughts

 

Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Pro 8-port Router connected to a Ruckus R700?

     (Hardline)                                                                     (Wireless)

 

 

Would that work?

[dalekphalm]

If you already have a modem, it has multiple LAN ports, one of which will be hooked up to the R700 wifi AP. The remaining LAN ports on the modem and all ports on the R700 can be used for hardline internet.

 

If you don't have a modem, you need an ADSL model to take the RJ11 that your service comes from.

 

And a network switch is meant for multiple computers to communicate with each other in a network, for purposes like transferring files to one another. If you just want hardline internet for your devices, you don't quite need a switch.

This is not correct. Only a Modem/Router combo device will have multiple LAN ports. An actual modem will only have one.

 

Just making sure there's no misinformation going around.

 

 

The internet is ADSL2+ so that would make it an RJ11 connection than

CISCO and Netgear are not brands I am interested in as they are the brands that I have had the most troubles with

I am completely overhauling the networking capability of my home. That means new modem & router

Yes I screwed up and called it a WLAN instead of an ADSL RJ11 Port, like I said new to networking and I dislike it from my current perspective

Linksys WRT1900AC didn't do so favourably in the test compared to the R700. My home environment closes resembles the torture test

The Ubiquiti option looked quite nice

 

Yes I hate it, it's complicated and temperamental, at least from my perspective

If you find your usage is actually similar to the torture tests that Linus did, then by all means, the R700 might be exactly what you need. I was simply pointing out a few alternatives in case you wanted to check them out

 

Cisco is the industry standard. You must've been unlucky if you've had issues with them. With Netgear, well they are always a mixed bag, some people have had great experiences, others not so much. Either way, if you've had bad experiences, then certainly, you can stay away from Cisco.

[dalekphalm]

@Optimus Prime I used my mad mspaint skills to draw out this diagram. This is the basic concept that I would use:

 

If you want a dedicated Access Point (Probably Wireless AC) like the R700, then add it in like I've drawn, off the Router. Then connect a Gigabit Switch off the router too, and wire all your hardline devices through the Switch. This will ensure that internal LAN traffic (Streaming files off a NAS, etc) won't be affected by Wireless AC traffic or anything else.

 

If you do use a dedicated Wireless AC Access Point, then you can look at different options for your Router (Which need not be wireless at all, if you can find a high quality gigabit Router without wireless). You could even go with an older high end Wireless N router to save on cost, that will still have excellent ethernet performance, and just disable the onboard wireless while strictly using the AP for wireless.

 

Or you could get a dedicated prosumer or enterprise grade router if you wanted to go balls to the wall. I'm sure Ruckus or Ubiquiti both have non-wifi Router options. In fact, I know for a fact that Ubiquiti does. No idea on cost though.

[Optimus Prime]

If you already have a modem, it has multiple LAN ports, one of which will be hooked up to the R700 wifi AP. The remaining LAN ports on the modem and all ports on the R700 can be used for hardline internet.

 

If you don't have a modem, you need an ADSL model to take the RJ11 that your service comes from.

 

And a network switch is meant for multiple computers to communicate with each other in a network, for purposes like transferring files to one another. If you just want hardline internet for your devices, you don't quite need a switch.

The R700 doesn't have any lan ports

Yep, ADSL compliant modem

 

This is not correct. Only a Modem/Router combo device will have multiple LAN ports. An actual modem will only have one.

 

Just making sure there's no misinformation going around.

 

 

If you find your usage is actually similar to the torture tests that Linus did, then by all means, the R700 might be exactly what you need. I was simply pointing out a few alternatives in case you wanted to check them out

 

Cisco is the industry standard. You must've been unlucky if you've had issues with them. With Netgear, well they are always a mixed bag, some people have had great experiences, others not so much. Either way, if you've had bad experiences, then certainly, you can stay away from Cisco.

Multiple Cisco and Netgear failures. We've had them die randomly, overheat and melt and one even physically popped

 

@Optimus Prime I used my mad mspaint skills to draw out this diagram. This is the basic concept that I would use:

network map.jpg

 

If you want a dedicated Access Point (Probably Wireless AC) like the R700, then add it in like I've drawn, off the Router. Then connect a Gigabit Switch off the router too, and wire all your hardline devices through the Switch. This will ensure that internal LAN traffic (Streaming files off a NAS, etc) won't be affected by Wireless AC traffic or anything else.

 

If you do use a dedicated Wireless AC Access Point, then you can look at different options for your Router (Which need not be wireless at all, if you can find a high quality gigabit Router without wireless). You could even go with an older high end Wireless N router to save on cost, that will still have excellent ethernet performance, and just disable the onboard wireless while strictly using the AP for wireless.

 

Or you could get a dedicated prosumer or enterprise grade router if you wanted to go balls to the wall. I'm sure Ruckus or Ubiquiti both have non-wifi Router options. In fact, I know for a fact that Ubiquiti does. No idea on cost though.

 

So how about this?

Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Pro 8-port Router + Ubiquiti EdgeSwitch 24 Port PoE+ Gigabit Switch + Ruckus R700

 

Would that work?

Any reconsiderations 

[Optimus Prime]

The R700 doesn't have any lan ports

Yep, ADSL compliant modem

 

Multiple Cisco and Netgear failures. We've had them die randomly, overheat and melt and one even physically popped

 

 

So how about this?

Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Pro 8-port Router + Ubiquiti EdgeSwitch 24 Port PoE+ Gigabit Switch + Ruckus R700

 

Would that work?

Any reconsiderations 

 

Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Pro 8-port Router doesn't appear to have a RJ11 port?

 

This is why I hate networking

[dalekphalm]

The R700 doesn't have any lan ports

Yep, ADSL compliant modem

 

Multiple Cisco and Netgear failures. We've had them die randomly, overheat and melt and one even physically popped

 

 

So how about this?

Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Pro 8-port Router + Ubiquiti EdgeSwitch 24 Port PoE+ Gigabit Switch + Ruckus R700

 

Would that work?

Any reconsiderations 

Yeah... that would be a beast setup. Though I would say that the Router is overkill ports wise... But then I noticed that any of the smaller routers have 1 Million PPS versus 2 Million PPS on the one you chose.

[dalekphalm]

Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Pro 8-port Router doesn't appear to have a RJ11 port?

 

This is why I hate networking

Oh, you need a standard ADSL2+ modem too. That's all. You could get an enterprise grade one, but honestly, you probably don't need it. The Router will handle most of the beast work. Let me see if I can find some good choices (I posted a TP-Link one above that is good. I've used it before).

 

The problem with business grade stuff is everyone recommends Cisco (which you don't want to use). I'm trying to find other business grade ADSL modems right now.

 

I've seen recommendations for "Draytek" but I've never used them myself:

http://www.draytek.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=itemlist&layout=category&task=category&id=164&Itemid=414〈=en

 

Personally I would just try out a TP-Link or D-Link ADSL2+ modem (Just a standard One-Port modem with no routing). They are cheap (Like $30-50), and easily replaceable if they cannot do the job.

 

Most businesses that have high load will use something beefier than ADSL2+, so there isn't a lot of Business Class stuff outside of Cisco.

[Optimus Prime]

Oh, you need a standard ADSL2+ modem too. That's all. You could get an enterprise grade one, but honestly, you probably don't need it. The Router will handle most of the beast work. Let me see if I can find some good choices (I posted a TP-Link one above that is good. I've used it before).

 

The problem with business grade stuff is everyone recommends Cisco (which you don't want to use). I'm trying to find other business grade ADSL modems right now.

 

I've seen recommendations for "Draytek" but I've never used them myself:

http://www.draytek.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=itemlist&layout=category&task=category&id=164&Itemid=414〈=en

 

Personally I would just try out a TP-Link or D-Link ADSL2+ modem (Just a standard One-Port modem with no routing). They are cheap (Like $30-50), and easily replaceable if they cannot do the job.

 

Most businesses that have high load will use something beefier than ADSL2+, so there isn't a lot of Business Class stuff outside of Cisco.

 

Yeah, I appreciate you looking into this for me.

 

It seems like as your said 

Draytek and Cisco are the highest tier DSL modems you can buy

Than you have  your Asus, Netgear and TP Link below it.

 

 

What are the benefits of getting a Draytek or Cisco modem over a cheaper ASUS or TP-Link?

 

Will the more expensive option provide better service, ie higher multiple user throughput before bottlenecking? Reliability?

[dalekphalm]

Yeah, I appreciate you looking into this for me.

 

It seems like as your said 

Draytek and Cisco are the highest tier DSL modems you can buy

Than you have  your Asus, Netgear and TP Link below it.

 

 

What are the benefits of getting a Draytek or Cisco modem over a cheaper ASUS or TP-Link?

 

Will the more expensive option provide better service, ie higher multiple user throughput before bottlenecking? Reliability?

Honestly I can't say. We use a Fibre media converter for our modem at work, which is powered by like a $20,000 Cisco router, so it's a beast.

 

However, the router is doing all the heavy lifting, so multiple user throughput shouldn't be much of an issue. You're gonna be heavily limited by your total bandwidth from the Internet plan anyway, depending on your usage patterns (QoS in the EdgeRouter should help alleviate that if it becomes an issue).

 

As far as the modem is concerned, it's only one user's worth of Data, since the Router is doing all the NAT (Network Address Translation = One IP of the Modem to Many IP of the local devices).

 

The Draytek or Cisco units will have a LOT more direct configuration and control though, and probably more features. I can't say whether that would actually be useful to you.