Optical Mice - Is there anything that compares to an M65?

[Zonus]

Christmas is around the corner, and I've decided to go for a new Keyboard, Mouse and Case.

I have decided that I'm going go for a Phanteks Enthoo Pro for the case, and a Corsair K70 RGB [Cherry MX Blue].

Anyway, I'm in doubt as to what mouse I should get. I currently have the Respawn Edition of the Razer Deathadder, which I'm fairly satisfied with. 

I'm absolutely in love with the looks and ergonomics of the M65. The idea of the sniper button is nice, but the one problem with that mouse is that it's a Laser sensor. From what I've read, Laser sensors often feature mouse acceleration.

 

 

For the "requirements", there is:

- A size, comparable to the Deathadder

- I like Optical Mice, but from what I can see, Laser Mice are supposedly better?

- I like having "Back" and "Forward" buttons to quickly navigate in both Windows and Chromium. However this isn't necessary.

- NO ACCELERATION!

- Must support 1800 DPI/CPI. This is what I use on a daily basis, and have adjusted my playing and workflow to it.

 

And well, basically something similar to a Corsair M65. If someone could give an in depth answer on what the pros and cons are in the Optical vs. Laser battle, as well as the general feel compared to one-another.

 

 

-Zonus

[olbaze]

Isn't the M65 basically identical in shape and button layout to the M45?

 

Yes, laser sensors have some built-in acceleration. That makes them "less accurate" in the sense of being inconsistent. Some people completely flip out over the mere idea of it, regardless of whether how it affects you in the real world. Other than that, Laser mice are notorious for being kind of picky about the type of surface they will work on, but the same is true for a lot of optical sensors, particularly when dealing with multiple colours or bright colours.

 

Personally, I came from the IME3.0 to an original DeathAdder to a Zowie EC1 EvO to a Mionix Naos 7000. The Zowie EC1 EvO was, in my opinion, an almost perfect mouse. It won't do for you since it can only do 450, 1150 or 2300 DPI (and you can't get to 1800 by altering the windows sensitivity either, the closest you get is 1725 by going with 5/11 and 2300 dpi. But if you can deal with that, the EC1 EvO is almost as close as you can get to a DeathAdder/IME3.0 shape, plus the mouse has no drivers nor firmware so it's true plug-and-play.

 

Other than that, similar mice would include the CM Storm Alcor. But if you're willing to change the shape, your options widen considerably, since you gain access to Mionix Naos 7000 (a wider, more ergonomic shape) and the Logitech G502/G402. Personally, I found the Mionix Naos to be very comfortable after spending a week or so getting used to the shape.

[TheProfosist]

The M45 should be what your looking for.

[kuddlesworth9419]

Never get anything other then optical. Laser is utter crap. 

[VulsaviiK]

Christmas is around the corner, and I've decided to go for a new Keyboard, Mouse and Case.

I have decided that I'm going go for a Phanteks Enthoo Pro for the case, and a Corsair K70 RGB [Cherry MX Blue].

 

Since you have/are getting a K70 RGB, why not a Sabre RGB Optical mouse? It's light, has a nice shape, and is pretty much loaded with every mod-con you could possibly want (unless you need a tonne of buttons)

 

Optical mice are considered better due to acceleration issues in laser mice. I don't think I noticed how bad it was until I switched back to optical and realized I could say, box the right amount of workers every time in SC2, rather than over/under shoot all the time.

 

So yeah, Sabre RGB Optical. It'll do 1800DPI. Plus it has onboard memory so you can use it at 1800DPI on other computers with no drivers (Pretty much the biggest selling point for me to cash in my Deathadder)

[Zonus]

Since you have/are getting a K70 RGB, why not a Sabre RGB Optical mouse? It's light, has a nice shape, and is pretty much loaded with every mod-con you could possibly want (unless you need a tonne of buttons)

 

Optical mice are considered better due to acceleration issues in laser mice. I don't think I noticed how bad it was until I switched back to optical and realized I could say, box the right amount of workers every time in SC2, rather than over/under shoot all the time.

 

So yeah, Sabre RGB Optical. It'll do 1800DPI. Plus it has onboard memory so you can use it at 1800DPI on other computers with no drivers (Pretty much the biggest selling point for me to cash in my Deathadder)

I looked at the Sabre, but the shape is a bit "meh". I think I might go for it though. With the lighting setup I'm intending (white LED's, with a tiny blue tint), it would be a great choice. However i'm still in conflict if I should go for the Sabre RGB, or the M45. The M45 has a better shape, but it would look out of place since I would turn off the LEDs, due to it having red LEDs.

 

Never get anything other then optical. Laser is utter crap. 

 

Yeah, I want to one of my local tech stores to try out a laser mouse... Gosh they feel terrible!

 

 

The M45 should be what your looking for.

 i'm looking at it, but I'm in conflict whether to choose the Sabre or M45. The Sabre would match the rest of my setup due to it having RGB lighting, where I would have to turn off the M45s red LEDs.

[Zonus]

Isn't the M65 basically identical in shape and button layout to the M45?

 

Yes, laser sensors have some built-in acceleration. That makes them "less accurate" in the sense of being inconsistent. Some people completely flip out over the mere idea of it, regardless of whether how it affects you in the real world. Other than that, Laser mice are notorious for being kind of picky about the type of surface they will work on, but the same is true for a lot of optical sensors, particularly when dealing with multiple colours or bright colours.

 

Personally, I came from the IME3.0 to an original DeathAdder to a Zowie EC1 EvO to a Mionix Naos 7000. The Zowie EC1 EvO was, in my opinion, an almost perfect mouse. It won't do for you since it can only do 450, 1150 or 2300 DPI (and you can't get to 1800 by altering the windows sensitivity either, the closest you get is 1725 by going with 5/11 and 2300 dpi. But if you can deal with that, the EC1 EvO is almost as close as you can get to a DeathAdder/IME3.0 shape, plus the mouse has no drivers nor firmware so it's true plug-and-play.

 

Other than that, similar mice would include the CM Storm Alcor. But if you're willing to change the shape, your options widen considerably, since you gain access to Mionix Naos 7000 (a wider, more ergonomic shape) and the Logitech G502/G402. Personally, I found the Mionix Naos to be very comfortable after spending a week or so getting used to the shape.

 

I wouldn't say that considering the M45/M65/M95 shape isn't changing it.

when you say the Naos is more ergonomic, are you referring to the thumb rest, or the pinky and ring finger rest? And is the thumb rest actually comfortable? I'm asking due to me having a standoff between the Sabre and M45. The Sabre has this thumb rest (ish) thing on the side, which I'm not sure how great that would be.  Other than that they, IMO, have a very similar shape which is a good thing for me.

[TheProfosist]

Just a heads up the sabre rgb optical is exclusive to best buy.

[kuddlesworth9419]

I looked at the Sabre, but the shape is a bit "meh". I think I might go for it though. With the lighting setup I'm intending (white LED's, with a tiny blue tint), it would be a great choice. However i'm still in conflict if I should go for the Sabre RGB, or the M45. The M45 has a better shape, but it would look out of place since I would turn off the LEDs, due to it having red LEDs.

 

 

Yeah, I want to one of my local tech stores to try out a laser mouse... Gosh they feel terrible!

 

 

 i'm looking at it, but I'm in conflict whether to choose the Sabre or M45. The Sabre would match the rest of my setup due to it having RGB lighting, where I would have to turn off the M45s red LEDs.

I had to put up with one for nearly 2 years. I eventually RMA'd it because it broke but now I have an optical it feels like a dream come true. They need to ban laser mice.

[bvm1228]

Just a heads up the sabre rgb optical is exclusive to best buy.

I found it at Newegg 

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826816038&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC-_-pla-_-Gaming+Mice-_-N82E16826816038&gclid=Cj0KEQiA-aujBRDqj772vpGfgooBEiQAzWAZUjmnxtIKC1EhWxQ8mgj-a9U_wWMDf78IkBr7kiBGsj4aAmG_8P8HAQ

[olbaze]

I wouldn't say that considering the M45/M65/M95 shape isn't changing it.

when you say the Naos is more ergonomic, are you referring to the thumb rest, or the pinky and ring finger rest? And is the thumb rest actually comfortable? I'm asking due to me having a standoff between the Sabre and M45. The Sabre has this thumb rest (ish) thing on the side, which I'm not sure how great that would be.  Other than that they, IMO, have a very similar shape which is a good thing for me.

 

For me, the wider shape of the Naos 7000 is what makes it more comfortable. The pinky and ring finger rests are the more major component of this, but the thumb rest does allow a wider grip of the side without losing precious contact surface for palming. Other than that, the rests also serve a function of keeping your fingers off the mousepad, which is good for avoiding dirtying cloth pads and hurting yourself on grainier hard pads.

 

Looking at the Sabre, the thumb rest on it is VERY different from the one on the Naos. With the Naos,the mouse contours outside, creating a relaxed curvature for your thumb, whereas the thumb rest on the Sabre would only really function as something to keep your thumb from dragging on the mousepad.

 

And honestly, the off-center placement of the cable might cause issues if it gets snagged somewhere, even if you use some kind of cable managing solution (duct tape, bungee, razer armadillo).

[atavax]

with laser vs optical there is nothing one technology can do that the other cannot. However modern implementations of the laser sensors including the m65's have speed related variance commonly referred to as acceleration.

[VulsaviiK]

Just a heads up the sabre rgb optical is exclusive to best buy.

 

That sucks... At least here in Aus we can just get it through the e-tailer we're all likely to go through anyway

[TheProfosist]

I found it at Newegg 

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826816038&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC-_-pla-_-Gaming+Mice-_-N82E16826816038&gclid=Cj0KEQiA-aujBRDqj772vpGfgooBEiQAzWAZUjmnxtIKC1EhWxQ8mgj-a9U_wWMDf78IkBr7kiBGsj4aAmG_8P8HAQ

Did you also notice laser in the title?

with laser vs optical there is nothing one technology can do that the other cannot. However modern implementations of the laser sensors including the m65's have speed related variance commonly referred to as acceleration.

They fixed the 9800 so it should be alright but its not fixed in all mice.

[atavax]

They fixed the 9800 so it should be alright but its not fixed in all mice.

 

are you referring to that EVGA representative's comment? No, they have not fixed the 9800, bold faced lie.

[TheProfosist]

are you referring to that EVGA representative's comment? No, they have not fixed the 9800, bold faced lie.

Somewhat fixed/improved them. The firware was pushed to some other mice with the sensor if i recall. I personally have never really had any issue with the 9800 either way. Also i really dont know why EVGA didnt go with an optical sensor since they were launching a brand new mouse. My other problem was that it was touted as a fingertip/claw grip mouse and the same made it seem that way as well but the size completely negated that.

[Zonus]

Just a heads up the sabre rgb optical is exclusive to best buy.

 Perhaps in North America, but here in Denmark there are multiple retailers with the Optical version.

https://www.komplett.dk/corsair-gaming-sabre-rgb-6400-dpi/828492?cks=ASS&assoc=84476DCC-9330-4E27-81A8-B134E45CBAB6

http://www.pricerunner.dk/pl/110-3018527/Mus/Corsair-Sabre-Optical-Rgb-Gaming-Mouse-Sammenlign-Priser

[Zonus]

For me, the wider shape of the Naos 7000 is what makes it more comfortable. The pinky and ring finger rests are the more major component of this, but the thumb rest does allow a wider grip of the side without losing precious contact surface for palming. Other than that, the rests also serve a function of keeping your fingers off the mousepad, which is good for avoiding dirtying cloth pads and hurting yourself on grainier hard pads.

 

Looking at the Sabre, the thumb rest on it is VERY different from the one on the Naos. With the Naos,the mouse contours outside, creating a relaxed curvature for your thumb, whereas the thumb rest on the Sabre would only really function as something to keep your thumb from dragging on the mousepad.

 

And honestly, the off-center placement of the cable might cause issues if it gets snagged somewhere, even if you use some kind of cable managing solution (duct tape, bungee, razer armadillo).

Do you think it'll still be comfortable though? 

I'm kinda starting to consider other options at this point. 

Does anyone have an idea for an RGB mouse with an Optical Sensor? 

I'm currently considering:

-Sabre RGB Optical

-M45 (With lights off)

-Naos 4000

EDIT:

I think I might add these too the poll of elimination:

-Logitech Proteus Core G502

-Razer DeathAdder Chroma

-Gigabyte FORCE M7

-ROCCAT KONE XTD (little over-budget, but plausible)

[Varsh]

Never get anything other then optical. Laser is utter crap. 

 

I had to put up with one for nearly 2 years. I eventually RMA'd it because it broke but now I have an optical it feels like a dream come true. They need to ban laser mice.

 

Laser mice are not crap, it all depends on the situations you're using them in. Having said that though the only mice I have used personally in the last 11 years are laser mice which are:

• Logitech MX1000
• Logitech MX Revolution
• Logitech Performance MX

The later being the one I've been using for over 3 years now and it is better than most optical mice I have ever used. They also worked on anything without issues. The Darkfield laser mice IMO are much better than optical.

[Zonus]

Laser mice are not crap, it all depends on the situations you're using them in. Having said that though the only mice I have used personally in the last 11 years are laser mice which are:

• Logitech MX1000
• Logitech MX Revolution
• Logitech Performance MX

The later being the one I've been using for over 3 years now and it is better than most optical mice I have ever used. They also worked on anything without issues. The Darkfield laser mice IMO are much better than optical.

 My main purpose is digital creativity (stuff like 3D animation, GIMP/photoshop, Inkscape, etc.) and simple coding (HTML5, Python, C++, C#) with a secondary purpose for gaming (Elder Scrolls Series, Chivalry, CS:S, Arkham series, etc.)

Would laser mice be okay for me? I might get off my lazy ass and go to my local tech store to play around with a laser mouse, although your input as someone who seems to prefer laser over optical.

[kuddlesworth9419]

Laser mice are not crap, it all depends on the situations you're using them in. Having said that though the only mice I have used personally in the last 11 years are laser mice which are:

• Logitech MX1000
• Logitech MX Revolution
• Logitech Performance MX

The later being the one I've been using for over 3 years now and it is better than most optical mice I have ever used. They also worked on anything without issues. The Darkfield laser mice IMO are much better than optical.

All laser mice have hardware mouse acceleration. In other words you cannot disable the mouse acceleration. Optical does not suffer with this issue. For me that was the only problem I ever had with laser mice. 

[Varsh]

I think you should try out the Darkfield mice. While it is true that laser mice have hardware acceleration, it is very little or non-existent on the Darkfield laser mice. The reason laser mice are so popular in some industries is because of accuracy which is something I can never switch out for.

 

 My main purpose is digital creativity (stuff like 3D animation, GIMP/photoshop, Inkscape, etc.) and simple coding (HTML5, Python, C++, C#) with a secondary purpose for gaming (Elder Scrolls Series, Chivalry, CS:S, Arkham series, etc.)
Would laser mice be okay for me? I might get off my lazy ass and go to my local tech store to play around with a laser mouse, although your input as someone who seems to prefer laser over optical.

 

I would go with a Darkfield laser (or similar) purely for the accuracy if you're doing lots of image work. With coding there's no real need for a mouse and any odd one would work. And for games I guess it depends on the games you play. While I do dabble in Unreal Tournament 4 from time to time, any high DPI mouse would work for FPS though for other genres any mouse would do fine to be honest. High DPI mice are there purely for the hardcore FPS gamer which I have to admit I'm not one but I do play single-player FPS games frequently.

 

The best thing to do is to head to any store where you can test out the mice and choose which one you want. Because there are so many different types and everyone has different sized hands and interpretations on what works for them, it would be best to properly test them out before spending that £40-100 on a brand spanking new mouse.

[Zonus]

I think you should try out the Darkfield mice. While it is true that laser mice have hardware acceleration, it is very little or non-existent on the Darkfield laser mice. The reason laser mice are so popular in some industries is because of accuracy which is something I can never switch out for.

 

 

I would go with a Darkfield laser (or similar) purely for the accuracy if you're doing lots of image work. With coding there's no real need for a mouse and any odd one would work. And for games I guess it depends on the games you play. While I do dabble in Unreal Tournament 4 from time to time, any high DPI mouse would work for FPS though for other genres any mouse would do fine to be honest. High DPI mice are there purely for the hardcore FPS gamer which I have to admit I'm not one but I do play single-player FPS games frequently.

 

The best thing to do is to head to any store where you can test out the mice and choose which one you want. Because there are so many different types and everyone has different sized hands and interpretations on what works for them, it would be best to properly test them out before spending that £40-100 on a brand spanking new mouse.

 

I guess I'll have to do that then. It's not so much for the shape, just to get the feel of a Laser mouse instead of Optical.

If I like it: I'm getting an M65 RGB.

If not: I'm going to go either Sabre, G502, M45, Naos, Kone, or Chroma.

[Verne]

I think you should try out the Darkfield mice. While it is true that laser mice have hardware acceleration, it is very little or non-existent on the Darkfield laser mice. The reason laser mice are so popular in some industries is because of accuracy which is something I can never switch out for.

 

 

I would go with a Darkfield laser (or similar) purely for the accuracy if you're doing lots of image work. With coding there's no real need for a mouse and any odd one would work. And for games I guess it depends on the games you play. While I do dabble in Unreal Tournament 4 from time to time, any high DPI mouse would work for FPS though for other genres any mouse would do fine to be honest. High DPI mice are there purely for the hardcore FPS gamer which I have to admit I'm not one but I do play single-player FPS games frequently.

 

The best thing to do is to head to any store where you can test out the mice and choose which one you want. Because there are so many different types and everyone has different sized hands and interpretations on what works for them, it would be best to properly test them out before spending that £40-100 on a brand spanking new mouse.

High DPI have nothing to do with anything, really. "Hardcore" FPS players prefer low DPI, as low as 400. Manufacturers market high dpi (and laser) because they need to slap something with big numbers and fancy name on the boxes so the people who don't do their research buy them thinking they got something amazing.

 

Anyone who is serious about (gaming) mouse performance should read https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56240.0 at least.

[TheProfosist]

All laser mice have hardware mouse acceleration. In other words you cannot disable the mouse acceleration. Optical does not suffer with this issue. For me that was the only problem I ever had with laser mice.

Yes but its not like oh there's acceleration and oh my gosh it a whole lot like checking the box in windows. It's actually a quite small amount and you'll notice other features of the mouse long before that. Also since it's based on interpretation the farther you get from the native dpi of the sensor the worse it is. However people who play at say 400 dpi should know this by now so they don't generally look at laser mice unless that's the only option for a shape or button arrangement. Also there have been optical mice that suffer from this kind of accelerated also and even other kinds. So just because it's optical doesn't make it perfect.