ODAC or Amp/ODAC

[Guest]

Hey peeps, 

 

I'm pretty uneducated when it comes to audio and audio setups so I came here fro some help like always. 

 

I have a pair of ATH-M50s and want to hook them up to a DAC. I am either looking at the JDS labs O2+ODAC combo http://www.jdslabs.com/products/48/o2-odac-combo/

 

Or just the standalone ODAC http://www.jdslabs.com/products/46/standalone-odac/

 

I want to know the the amp is needed to power the M50s and if I should spend the extra $100. 

 

Thanks, 

 

Gabe

[EmoRarity]

M50s dont need an extra amp, unless your onboard is broken.

[MuffinTopMike]

Don't get the standard ODAC, get the Amp/ODAC.

[MayflowerElectronics]

You can't drive headphones directly off of the ODAC. 

[djodars]

A DAC's only purpose is to convert Digital signals to Analog. Your onboard audio or sound card already has one so if you want one just because you heard it was better, you've heard wrong.

 

Your headphones aren't hard to drive either so an amp is completely useless here. Stick to onboard audio or sound card.

[ShearMe]

or sound card.

 

ah, so close mang

[djodars]

ah, so close mang

 

That was in case he already had one or if he "absolutely" needed virtual surround other than Razer Surround

[Guest]

ah, so close mang

 

That was in case he already had one or if he "absolutely" needed virtual surround other than Razer Surround

 

 

So I will see no noticable sound benefit from getting an O2+ODAC

[Shikarikato]

Have you ever considered just buying a better pair of headphones? 

[rcarlos243]

A DAC's only purpose is to convert Digital signals to Analog. Your onboard audio or sound card already has one so if you want one just because you heard it was better, you've heard wrong.

 

Your headphones aren't hard to drive either so an amp is completely useless here. Stick to onboard audio or sound card.

 

That is wrong on so many levels. A poor DAC affects the sound quality more than a poor AMP.

 

An AMP on its basic function is to make the volume louder but some AMP allows to alter the sound signature or some say "color" (ie warm, bright, thin, etc...).

 

As an example the Wolfson WM8994 found on Samsung Galaxy S1 and Nexus S coupled with voodoo sound is known to be the one of the best in SQ in a Phone.

 

On the other hand the Yamaha C1-YMU823 which is found on Samsung Galaxy S2 is known to be one of the worst if not the worst in terms of sound quality.

 

 

on the extreme end of things, some audiophile enthusiast go as far as to mod the board to upgrade either the op amp(to tune the sound quality) or capacitors(to make the audio as clean as possible) or both.

 

note: burson op amp and TI LM4562

 

 

the stock caps are replaced with: Nichicon Muses KZ, Elna Silmic II, Wima FKP2, Vishay BC MKP418 and Nichicon FPCAP R7

[hashtagswagarino]

That is wrong on so many levels. A DAC affects the sound quality more than an AMP.

 

The only thing that an AMP does is to make the volume louder by amplifying it.

 

As an example the Wolfson WM8994 found on Samsung Galaxy S1 and Nexus S coupled with voodoo sound is known to be the one of the best in SQ in a Phone.

 

On the other hand the Yamaha C1-YMU823 which is found on Samsung Galaxy S2 is known to be one of the worst if not the worst in terms of sound quality.

 

 

on the extreme end of things, some audiophile enthusiast go as far as to mod the board to upgrade either the op amp(to tune the sound quality) or capacitors(to make the audio as clean as possible) or both.

 

note: burson op amp and TI LM4562

 

 

the stock caps are replaced with: Nichicon Muses KZ, Elna Silmic II, Wima FKP2, Vishay BC MKP418 and Nichicon FPCAP R7

 

/facepalm

[Majestic]

Yes, audiofiles do like to mangle boards and put components in there that don't belong. Making the actual DAC sound worse than it was.

However, eventhough they're easy to drive. His board will have a pretty abysmal output impedance. Making volume an issue sometimes. Aswell as some damping because of the 1/8 ratio not being met.

 

EDIT: i can't find out which opamp is used on the m5a78-l,and it's too small to pick up on pictures.

[t0wer]

the stock caps are replaced with: Nichicon Muses KZ, Elna Silmic II, Wima FKP2, Vishay BC MKP418 and Nichicon FPCAP R7

 

if someone knows how to solder, and knows more about audio and basic electronics than the companies making equipment, and are willing to do THAT to a board

why even buy equipment anymore, just make your own stuff.

 

and for those discrete opamps, the only difference over an ic is the size.

if you look at a spec sheet for an opamp, some have the schematic right there, that will look just like the schematic for a discrete opamp.

there is no reason to go discrete over ic.

 

IME the dac doesn't change much.(assuming no hiss/clicks/pops already)

an amp can help if your source is quiet or can't provide enough current.

[djodars]

So I will see no noticable sound benefit from getting an O2+ODAC

 

Not with these headphones, no.

 

And don't even read rcarlos post above, he's spouting non-sense. Unfortunately, a popular trend these days is to pretend to have knowledge in something when all you really did is read about it on the interwebs...

 

If you hear noise or crackling when listening on your computer or if the sound isn't loud enough at 80-85% volume, than you can start looking into amplifers and DACs... but if the sound is loud enough and there's no audio disturbance, don't bother.

[ShearMe]

That is wrong on so many levels. A poor DAC affects the sound quality more than a poor AMP.

 

Bad amps and bad DACs are equally to blame, just in different circumstances, imo.

[SSL]

a popular trend these days is to pretend to have knowledge in something when all you really did is read about it on the interwebs.

 

This is my fetish.

[Guest]

Not with these headphones, no.

 

And don't even read rcarlos post above, he's spouting non-sense. Unfortunately, a popular trend these days is to pretend to have knowledge in something when all you really did is read about it on the interwebs...

 

If you hear noise or crackling when listening on your computer or if the sound isn't loud enough at 80-85% volume, than you can start looking into amplifers and DACs... but if the sound is loud enough and there's no audio disturbance, don't bother.

 

Okay, thanks for the help. I guess I was just too enthralled by the idea of a great AMP/DAC without realizing how unnecessary it was in this situation. I don't hear any crackling and the volume is perfectly fine.

 

Thanks for saving me $270. I'm going to invest in a nice desktop speaker system instead 

[creatip123]

In my experience, like shearme said, different DACs and amps could yield different results.

 

Tried with: 

 

- Same DAC, different amps 

- Same amp, different DACs

 

Both cases yield different sounds.

 

The problem is, whether you can tell the difference or not, depends on 2 main things:

 

- The headphone you use. Some headphone are sensitive to changes in the source fed to it, some aren't, and some are plain crappy that no matter what source you use to feed it, it'd give out crap sounds

- Most importantly, your own ears. 

 

Do note that even if you're able to tell the difference, they will be minuscule, in other words, very little differences. Whether or not that little differences worth your money, that's entirely up to you. Some people go thousands of dollars for those differences.

 

But yes, the biggest margin of upgrade would be the headphone itself. Get a better (and almost always more expensive) headphone, and there's a chance you'll surprise your own ears....

[ShearMe]

Some people go thousands of dollars for those differences.

 

I call BS. 

 

Some people spend thousands of dollars, then try to convince everyone else it was for those differences.

[SSL]

I call BS. 

 

Some people spend thousands of dollars, then try to convince everyone else it was for those differences.

 

But they are real. The fact that you could buy the same model of headphone again and get even bigger differences is irrelevant hand-waving.

[BoredErica]

Expensive = Better.

Didn't you get the memo?

[creatip123]

I call BS. 

 

Some people spend thousands of dollars, then try to convince everyone else it was for those differences.

 

Well, that I don't know/not sure, becoz I never did that (spend thousands of dollars on minor/minute differences). Most I've spent on minute differences is about $100, when I upgraded from E10 to T1 recently. Originally wanted to just test the T1 and sell it afterward, but fell in love with it on first audition....

 

I've heard about them though, people spending lots of money. I've heard of someone (in my country, where prices are considerably higher) buying LCD2, not satisfied, bought HE-6, still not satisfied, bought stax sr009, but keeping all of them (not selling old ones), just for the kicks. I'm guessing, part hobby, part obsession, and of course, craps money everywhere he goes. 

[BoredErica]

I've tried fancy amps at a Headfi meet. People constantly exaggerate the differences things make. It's very annoying. I will only take seriously a person that tries to blind test amps if they're going to say it makes a difference. And even if some can tell a difference and finds the expensive one to sound better, that speaks only to subjectivity in audio, not fidelity, and even then, still, the large majority of the population don't care and cannot hear a difference even if they set aside an hour of their life to test. Even if some people can demonstrate without a doubt that they can tell a difference and prefer the more expensive solutions, they need to put a huge asterisk so people don't all decide to switch to expensive stuff.

 

...I think people constantly underestimate the power of expectation bias and placebo. It's seriously astonishing to me too, and I'm the one who won't shut up about it. I fall for it as well.

[creatip123]

I've tried fancy amps at a Headfi meet. People constantly exaggerate the differences things make. It's very annoying. I will only take seriously a person that tries to blind test amps if they're going to say it makes a difference. And even if some can tell a difference and finds the expensive one to sound better, that speaks only to subjectivity in audio, not fidelity, and even then, still, the large majority of the population don't care and cannot hear a difference even if they set aside an hour of their life to test. Even if some people can demonstrate without a doubt that they can tell a difference and prefer the more expensive solutions, they need to put a huge asterisk so people don't all decide to switch to expensive stuff.

 

...I think people constantly underestimate the power of expectation bias and placebo. It's seriously astonishing to me too, and I'm the one who won't shut up about it. I fall for it as well.

 

Well, the thing is, stuffs that we can appreciate will always be influenced by that expectation bias and placebo. Eating a steak in a dark, dinky corner of a crappy bar would taste different than in a 5 star french restaurant with dim crystal lighting and violin player playing love songs Not necessarily tastes better, but feels better, and people will almost always prefer the latter, without the extra costs counted (or counted, but they got the extra moolah to justify it)

 

So yeah, I agree. It shouldn't be like this, but it's a real phenomena. And I do agree, sometimes it's not necessarily better, just different, and comes down to personal preferences. Like my new T1 is warmer and sounds richer than my E10. I do like warm colors, so I retired my E10. For people who prefer flat or bright colors, I wouldn't recommend the T1. Oh and the extra amping of the T1 compared to E10 is a plus on my HE400 (or any other planars I'd imagine), 1W vs 100mW @32ohms. 

 

Well, some things are un-arguably better, like my HE-400 compared to AD700. Every single guy I have auditioned for them both say the HE-400 stomps AD700 in any and every way, except for wideness though. Or going to the extreme, Razer Kraken vs LCD-3... :lol:

[BoredErica]

Well, the thing is, stuffs that we can appreciate will always be influenced by that expectation bias and placebo. Eating a steak in a dark, dinky corner of a crappy bar would taste different than in a 5 star french restaurant with dim crystal lighting and violin player playing love songs Not necessarily tastes better, but feels better, and people will almost always prefer the latter, without the extra costs counted (or counted, but they got the extra moolah to justify it)

 

So yeah, I agree. It shouldn't be like this, but it's a real phenomena. And I do agree, sometimes it's not necessarily better, just different. Like my new T1 is warmer and sounds richer than my E10. I do like warm colors, so I retired my E10. For people who prefer flat or bright colors, I wouldn't recommend the T1. Oh and the extra amping of the T1 compared to E10 is a plus on my HE400 (or any other planars I'd imagine), 1W vs 100mW @32ohms. 

 

Well, some things are un-arguably better, like my HE-400 compared to AD700. Every single guy I have auditioned for them both say the HE-400 stomps AD700 in any and every way, except for wideness though. Or going to the extreme, Razer Kraken vs LCD-3... :lol:

You underestimate the variety of tastes people have! My friend feels his Razer Morays are better than any headphone in any Headfi meet. And we've tried it all. (Abyss, Stax, All Audezes, HD800, Hifimans, etc)

I think chasing placebos has consequences, it should be done carefully, and again, just as importantly if not even more, we've got to be careful about accidentally misleading the general public about audio. Every day we get a new thread on here of somebody asking what sound card they should get for their headset because their headset is like "60 ohms". If the effect of "better sound" isn't actually there (ignoring coloring sound signatures, I'm talking placebo regarding higher fidelity audio when you fail to demonstrate it's higher fidelity), since it's all in a person's head, it should be possible to overcome it... And just enjoy the sound knowing they sound the same. I think it's liberating to know you don't have to go down the super expensive amp/dac path, to know that all the days of wondering if a setup is "optimal" or not are over.