First-Time Water-Cooler: Fan recommendation? Check my math?

[bsperan]

I've been wanting to build a water-cooled rig for a number of years. Now, finally, I'm able to do it. But I have a specific goal in mind. Namely, being as silent as possible while maintaining decent to good cooling. Noise reduction is what I'm after. So, I'm trying to figure out which radiator and fan combination would be sufficient for my needs while being as quiet as possible.

If I estimate my i5-4670K, overclocked, to use 127 W and my ASUS GeForce GTX 670 w/4GB DDR5 would use about 166 W max, that'd be about 293 watts of heat. But, for experimentation, I plan to add about 75 watts of peltier cooling. And, to leave room to grow, I'd like to plan for a second GPU. That'd be 127w + 166w + 166w + 75w, which comes to about 534 watts when loaded to nearly 100%.

If I multiply this 534 W by a 53% load (for one set of fans), that comes to about 283 watts of cooling... Am I doing this right? I shouldn't need a fan/radiator setup to handle the full 534 watts... should I? I just need enough to create a temp delta that is manageable... right?

Anyway, in this Radiator Size Estimator thread, JackNaylorPE provides spreadsheet data on popular rads. And in this recent Tom's Hardware forum thread, someone mentions "Alphacool is currently top dog in the radiator arena."

According to AquacoolEstimator.XLS, an Alphacool UT60 480 radiator, with 4 x 12cm fans @ 1400 RPM in push, can handle 280 watts. Though, maybe I'd be better off with a Monsta 80 with 297 watts (assuming I can fit it in)? Also, an Aphacool UT60 420 radiator, with 3 x 14cm fans @ 1400 RPM in push, can handle 286 watts.

 

To get the same cooling out of a much smaller Aphacool 360 radiator would require a Monta 80 with 3 x 12cm fans in push at a much more noisy 1800 RPMs.

...Oh, dang! I just realized I did not leave room to OC my video cards. And the pump will add at least another 25 W. If I estimate about 20% more power consumption for both GTX 670's being OC'd, that be at least another 66 watts. So... 534 + 25 + 66 = 691 watts! And at 53%, that'd still be at least 366 watts!

Well, according to that Alphacool spreadsheet, the radiators I mentioned could handle that, but only if I went with a Monta 80 and upgraded to a push/pull configuration.

I've got Cooler Master HAF 932 case, which has plenty of headroom above the MB for a push/pull radiator setup. And it's made to accept a 360mm radiator.

However, I decided before purchasing the case that a 360 will not be enough and I'm going to heavily mod the top to accept something bigger.

I'll cut out most of the top and replace it with modder's mesh or some type of perforated steel or screen.

Originally, I wanted a 400mm (2 x 200mm) fan/radiator setup. This is because my case is wide enough and it would offer more surface area than a 420mm (3 x 140mm) solution:

120mm x 120mm = 14400 mm^2 = 144 cm^2
140mm x 140mm = 19600 mm^2 = 196 cm^2
200mm x 200mm = 40000 mm^2 = 400 cm^2
14400 x 3 = 43200 mm^2 = 432 cm^2
14400 x 4 = 57600 mm^2 = 576 cm^2
19600 x 3 = 58800 mm^2 = 588 cm^2
40000 x 2 = 80000 mm^2 = 800 cm^2
800 cm^2 = 136% of 588 cm^2
800 cm^2 = 139% of 576 cm^2
800 cm^2 = 185% of 432 cm^2
588 cm^2 = 73.5% of 800 cm^2
576 cm^2 = 72% of 800 cm^2
432 cm^2 = 54% of 800 cm^2

As you can see, a 2 x 200mm setup has 36% more surface area than a 3 x 140mm setup. And it has 85% more surface area than a 3 x 120mm setup.

Interestingly, a 4 x 120mm setup has almost as much surface area as a 3 x 140mm setup. If I really cut into the top of my HAF 932, I think I could get a 4 x 120mm radiator to fit. But it'd be a bit tight.

Anyway, when I looked for 200mm fans... I was disappointed by what I found. There is simply not much of a selection. A number of places don't even sell them. Also, the noise to CFM ratio is not good. And the static pressure is abysmal.

After finding a lack of good 200mm fans and learning how important static pressure is to radiators and water-cooling, I discarded my 2 x 200mm idea.

So, my first big question is: Should I go for a 3 x 140mm radiator or a 4 x 120mm radiator? But, I suppose this could be dictated by the fans I will use.

I realize that 120mm fans generally have much higher static pressure than 140mm fans. And so, I have to wonder: Would I be better off to go with a 4 x 120mm fan/radiator setup?

Keep in mind: I don't want a push/pull configuration. My goal is noise reduction. And I've read that a push/pull setup only gives about a 15% to 30% increase in performance (vs. push) at the cost of more fan noise.

Also, I've read that push/pull makes even less difference on rads with low FPI. As my goal is noise reduction, I will be using variable speed fans with low RPMs. This means less static pressure is available, so I am forced to use a radiator with relatively low fins-per-inch to allow a good air flow.

So, I'd rather go with a pull configuration as that generates the least noise. Though, I do realize it might be slightly less efficient than push. Also, I plan to have spacers between my fans and the radiator to lessen turbulence and increase performance. (Martin's benchmarks show that spacers can make a difference in temps.) I'm thinking 25 or 30mm spacers.

If I go the 3 x 140mm route: I'm trying to decide between these three 140mm fans:

COUGAR 14CM Blue LED (Model CF-D14HB- B)
1000RPM, 73.2CFM, 18dBA
Air pressure @ 12V (mm H2O): 1.4

Phanteks PH-F140XP_BK 140mm PWM
RPM: 600-1200 +/- 250 rpm
Air Flow: 40.9 - 85.19 CFM
Noise Level: 15.22 - 19 dB (A)
Static Pressure: 0.39-1.52mm H2O

NANOXIA NDS140PWM-1400 (Deep Silence 140mm PWM)
Rotation Speed: 700 - 1400 RPM (± 10%)
Airflow: 76.5 CFM Max
Noise: 16.2 dB(A) Max
Static Pressure: 1.18 mm H2O Max

The Nanoxia is clearly the most quiet in terms of CFM per dBA. However, it does not have much static pressure. The Cougar has noticeably better pressure, but at a cost in noise. And the Phanteks has the best CFM and static pressure, but the worst noise.

Thing is, I believe the 0.39-1.52mm static pressure on the Phanteks and the 1.18mm on the Nanoxia are misleading. It's difficult to compare those figures with the 1.4mm on the Cougar because it's not a fair comparison. The Cougar's 1.4mm is measured at 12V, which is at maximum RPM. However, my understanding is that lower RPMs can give better static pressure. To me, that makes the Cougar tempting because high static pressure at high RPM/CFM (vs. low RPM/CFM) probably equates to better cooling.

However, this review of the Phanteks F140XP makes it sound tempting:

 

...While the fans are essentially the same with PWM added to the F140XP, that also adds some perks. The PWM control allows the F140XP to be run all the way down to 300rpm for absolute silence. The lower speeds also allow the static pressure to increase ~15%, making them an excellent choice for 140mm factor radiators. The 140SP serves very, very well on radiators also with good static pressure and low noise.

I do plan to use a PWM fan hub to have all three controlled by the MB's PWM CPU fan control. The manual for my ASUS Z97A MB says it can handle up to 12 watts (1A) for the CPU_fan connector, so it should be plenty for 3 or even 4 fans. And, depending on the hub, some of them work even with regular 3-pin fans. So while I will have them PWM controlled, they probably don't have to be PWM fans.

Anyway, I've seen a lot of 120mm fans with good CFM to noise ratios. But static pressure data is not always listed, assuming the manufacturer even provides it. And so I'm having a tough time deciding.

When I was looking up the static pressure of the 14cm COUGAR CF-D14HB-B above, I noticed this:

COUGAR 12CM Blue LED (Model CF-D12HB- B)
RPM: 1200 RPM
Air Flow: 64.37 CFM
Noise Level: 16.6 dBA
Air pressure @ 12V (mm H2O): 1.74

That 1.74mm sounds a lot better than the 1.4mm for the 14cm version. So, if I mounted 4 of these on a 480mm radiator, would that give better cooling than 3 of the 14cm version on a 420mm radiator?

And I stumbled across this thread about using a 140mm fan on a 120mm CPU cooler. One guy replied:

 

Shrouds tend to cause turbulence etc which will often make the 140mm perform worse than the 120mm, and as of right now, I do not know of any 140mm fan that will top a GT on a HS, even without a shroud.

Many people are even using the GT's on 140mm rads because they perform that well.

Hmm... Would it make sense mount three 120mm fans on a 420mm (3 x 140mm) rad? Or should I tear into my case to allow a big 480mm rad and use four good 120mm fans?

A lot of water-cooling enthusiasts recommend the Scythe Gentle Typhoon line of fans. However, currently, there seems to be an extreme supply shortage. Either that, or they were discontinued, because Newegg is completely out of stock on all models. And the few places that do still carry them tend to ask stunningly outrageous prices. (Like, $40 or more.)

Anyway, it does not look like Scythe ever produced a 140mm version of the Gentle Typhoon. All the one's I've seen are 120mm. Also, the specifications I've seen are not that impressive. That is, I've seen a number of other fans with better CFM to noise ratios.

Do Gentle Typhoons have some other features which make them ideal? Perhaps better static pressure, a lower perceived noise, or high reliability? Or is it mostly hype?

Did I do my math right? For the best noise solution, should I go with 3 x 14cm fans or 4 x 12cm? Which fans would you recommend? Which brand of radiator?

As a first-time water-cooler builder: Seriously, any and all constructive criticism and advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Shaqo_Wyn]

*snip*

How bout you give us the cliff notes?

[airdeano]

I've been wanting to build a water-cooled rig for a number of years. Now, finally, I'm able to do it. But I have a specific goal in mind. Namely, being as silent as possible while maintaining decent to good cooling. Noise reduction is what I'm after. So, I'm trying to figure out which radiator and fan combination would be sufficient for my needs while being as quiet as possible.

If I estimate my i5-4670K, overclocked, to use 127 W and my ASUS GeForce GTX 670 w/4GB DDR5 would use about 166 W max, that'd be about 293 watts of heat. But, for experimentation, I plan to add about 75 watts of peltier cooling. And, to leave room to grow, I'd like to plan for a second GPU. That'd be 127w + 166w + 166w + 75w, which comes to about 534 watts when loaded to nearly 100%.

If I multiply this 534 W by a 53% load (for one set of fans), that comes to about 283 watts of cooling... Am I doing this right? I shouldn't need a fan/radiator setup to handle the full 534 watts... should I? I just need enough to create a temp delta that is manageable... right?

Anyway, in this Radiator Size Estimator thread, JackNaylorPE provides spreadsheet data on popular rads. And in this recent Tom's Hardware forum thread, someone mentions "Alphacool is currently top dog in the radiator arena."

According to AquacoolEstimator.XLS, an Alphacool UT60 480 radiator, with 4 x 12cm fans @ 1400 RPM in push, can handle 280 watts. Though, maybe I'd be better off with a Monsta 80 with 297 watts (assuming I can fit it in)? Also, an Aphacool UT60 420 radiator, with 3 x 14cm fans @ 1400 RPM in push, can handle 286 watts.

 

To get the same cooling out of a much smaller Aphacool 360 radiator would require a Monta 80 with 3 x 12cm fans in push at a much more noisy 1800 RPMs.

...Oh, dang! I just realized I did not leave room to OC my video cards. And the pump will add at least another 25 W. If I estimate about 20% more power consumption for both GTX 670's being OC'd, that be at least another 66 watts. So... 534 + 25 + 66 = 691 watts! And at 53%, that'd still be at least 366 watts!

Well, according to that Alphacool spreadsheet, the radiators I mentioned could handle that, but only if I went with a Monta 80 and upgraded to a push/pull configuration.

I've got Cooler Master HAF 932 case, which has plenty of headroom above the MB for a push/pull radiator setup. And it's made to accept a 360mm radiator.

However, I decided before purchasing the case that a 360 will not be enough and I'm going to heavily mod the top to accept something bigger.

I'll cut out most of the top and replace it with modder's mesh or some type of perforated steel or screen.

Originally, I wanted a 400mm (2 x 200mm) fan/radiator setup. This is because my case is wide enough and it would offer more surface area than a 420mm (3 x 140mm) solution:

120mm x 120mm = 14400 mm^2 = 144 cm^2

140mm x 140mm = 19600 mm^2 = 196 cm^2

200mm x 200mm = 40000 mm^2 = 400 cm^2

14400 x 3 = 43200 mm^2 = 432 cm^2

14400 x 4 = 57600 mm^2 = 576 cm^2

19600 x 3 = 58800 mm^2 = 588 cm^2

40000 x 2 = 80000 mm^2 = 800 cm^2

800 cm^2 = 136% of 588 cm^2

800 cm^2 = 139% of 576 cm^2

800 cm^2 = 185% of 432 cm^2

588 cm^2 = 73.5% of 800 cm^2

576 cm^2 = 72% of 800 cm^2

432 cm^2 = 54% of 800 cm^2

As you can see, a 2 x 200mm setup has 36% more surface area than a 3 x 140mm setup. And it has 85% more surface area than a 3 x 120mm setup.

Interestingly, a 4 x 120mm setup has almost as much surface area as a 3 x 140mm setup. If I really cut into the top of my HAF 932, I think I could get a 4 x 120mm radiator to fit. But it'd be a bit tight.

Anyway, when I looked for 200mm fans... I was disappointed by what I found. There is simply not much of a selection. A number of places don't even sell them. Also, the noise to CFM ratio is not good. And the static pressure is abysmal.

After finding a lack of good 200mm fans and learning how important static pressure is to radiators and water-cooling, I discarded my 2 x 200mm idea.

So, my first big question is: Should I go for a 3 x 140mm radiator or a 4 x 120mm radiator? But, I suppose this could be dictated by the fans I will use.

I realize that 120mm fans generally have much higher static pressure than 140mm fans. And so, I have to wonder: Would I be better off to go with a 4 x 120mm fan/radiator setup?

Keep in mind: I don't want a push/pull configuration. My goal is noise reduction. And I've read that a push/pull setup only gives about a 15% to 30% increase in performance (vs. push) at the cost of more fan noise.

Also, I've read that push/pull makes even less difference on rads with low FPI. As my goal is noise reduction, I will be using variable speed fans with low RPMs. This means less static pressure is available, so I am forced to use a radiator with relatively low fins-per-inch to allow a good air flow.

So, I'd rather go with a pull configuration as that generates the least noise. Though, I do realize it might be slightly less efficient than push. Also, I plan to have spacers between my fans and the radiator to lessen turbulence and increase performance. (Martin's benchmarks show that spacers can make a difference in temps.) I'm thinking 25 or 30mm spacers.

If I go the 3 x 140mm route: I'm trying to decide between these three 140mm fans:

COUGAR 14CM Blue LED (Model CF-D14HB- B)

1000RPM, 73.2CFM, 18dBA

Air pressure @ 12V (mm H2O): 1.4

Phanteks PH-F140XP_BK 140mm PWM

RPM: 600-1200 +/- 250 rpm

Air Flow: 40.9 - 85.19 CFM

Noise Level: 15.22 - 19 dB (A)

Static Pressure: 0.39-1.52mm H2O

NANOXIA NDS140PWM-1400 (Deep Silence 140mm PWM)

Rotation Speed: 700 - 1400 RPM (± 10%)

Airflow: 76.5 CFM Max

Noise: 16.2 dB(A) Max

Static Pressure: 1.18 mm H2O Max

The Nanoxia is clearly the most quiet in terms of CFM per dBA. However, it does not have much static pressure. The Cougar has noticeably better pressure, but at a cost in noise. And the Phanteks has the best CFM and static pressure, but the worst noise.

Thing is, I believe the 0.39-1.52mm static pressure on the Phanteks and the 1.18mm on the Nanoxia are misleading. It's difficult to compare those figures with the 1.4mm on the Cougar because it's not a fair comparison. The Cougar's 1.4mm is measured at 12V, which is at maximum RPM. However, my understanding is that lower RPMs can give better static pressure. To me, that makes the Cougar tempting because high static pressure at high RPM/CFM (vs. low RPM/CFM) probably equates to better cooling.

However, this review of the Phanteks F140XP makes it sound tempting:

 

I do plan to use a PWM fan hub to have all three controlled by the MB's PWM CPU fan control. The manual for my ASUS Z97A MB says it can handle up to 12 watts (1A) for the CPU_fan connector, so it should be plenty for 3 or even 4 fans. And, depending on the hub, some of them work even with regular 3-pin fans. So while I will have them PWM controlled, they probably don't have to be PWM fans.

Anyway, I've seen a lot of 120mm fans with good CFM to noise ratios. But static pressure data is not always listed, assuming the manufacturer even provides it. And so I'm having a tough time deciding.

When I was looking up the static pressure of the 14cm COUGAR CF-D14HB-B above, I noticed this:

COUGAR 12CM Blue LED (Model CF-D12HB- B)

RPM: 1200 RPM

Air Flow: 64.37 CFM

Noise Level: 16.6 dBA

Air pressure @ 12V (mm H2O): 1.74

That 1.74mm sounds a lot better than the 1.4mm for the 14cm version. So, if I mounted 4 of these on a 480mm radiator, would that give better cooling than 3 of the 14cm version on a 420mm radiator?

And I stumbled across this thread about using a 140mm fan on a 120mm CPU cooler. One guy replied:

 

Hmm... Would it make sense mount three 120mm fans on a 420mm (3 x 140mm) rad? Or should I tear into my case to allow a big 480mm rad and use four good 120mm fans?

A lot of water-cooling enthusiasts recommend the Scythe Gentle Typhoon line of fans. However, currently, there seems to be an extreme supply shortage. Either that, or they were discontinued, because Newegg is completely out of stock on all models. And the few places that do still carry them tend to ask stunningly outrageous prices. (Like, $40 or more.)

Anyway, it does not look like Scythe ever produced a 140mm version of the Gentle Typhoon. All the one's I've seen are 120mm. Also, the specifications I've seen are not that impressive. That is, I've seen a number of other fans with better CFM to noise ratios.

Do Gentle Typhoons have some other features which make them ideal? Perhaps better static pressure, a lower perceived noise, or high reliability? Or is it mostly hype?

Did I do my math right? For the best noise solution, should I go with 3 x 14cm fans or 4 x 12cm? Which fans would you recommend? Which brand of radiator?

As a first-time water-cooler builder: Seriously, any and all constructive criticism and advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

tbh, overthinking the process. as in controlled environments these values could

be true, but in real-world situations, they tend to be under-stated.

 

generally, a 240x 60 for a ragged-edge OC and 120mm per device afterwards.

this will utilize low fan speed and acceptable cooling performance.

 

GT/AP fans are no longer being produced, so what is out there for sale is all

there is to be had.

 

yes, a 420 does exceed the potential of the 480. but the facts of the 140mm

fan options like the 120mm counterparts is much, much lower. and reasoning

is the 120 market is so versatile and the 140 is a small part of it. not as much

for static pressure (radiator optimized), noise technology and cost.