[VideoCardZ] Mantle Support List Leaked With 25+ games, Including GTA V.

[jmaster299]

Nvidia can work on it when it's released, and patch the games that are already released, Nvidia can find a project and apply to the beta for Mantle, they will probably get it, as long as they have a project that will help AMD  evolve and fix Mantle before the launch, not just ask for a peak like Intel did.

and yes games that are coded around DX, all that Mantle can give them is better cpu usage, and resources management and stuff like that, dont forget the  games evlove, if now your 1000$ cpu run through games and dont see that much of a difference, in couple years that same cpu will benefit from Mantle as much as an i3 does right now.

and if the game is primarily developed for Mantle rather than DX limit ceiling, games overall would be better on many aspects.not just fps for low cpu.

One big issue there, no game will ever be developed primarily for Mantle. They will all be developed for DX first and Mantle second. That's a requirement that can never be changed because the market share of GPUs that can support Mantle is extremely small. A 280X is a rebranded 7970 GHz edition, yet the 280X supports Mantle but the 7970 can not. Mantle will always be second fiddle to DX.

 

 

I just like to point that while you're absolutely right about this right now, developers should start getting serious about multi threading performance and actually using the CPU more because once they do, they can actually gain a large advantage out of using mantle and improve games in other, much needed ways like better AI and other sort of tasks like that.

 

I agree, but developers can start using more of the CPU, like using 8 cores/threads, and just use the CPU more efficiently in general, without the help of Mantle.

[alamox]

It's funnier how people talk about open source when they have no idea what they're talking about. Open source is about cooperative development so yes that means getting down and dirty with stuff being tweaked, added, removed, etc. What AMD is doing is their own thing, it's ok that they're doing it like that if it suits them. But it is most certainly not open source development. They are actually misleading people like you who are actually not familiar with how open source development works and think just giving the source to a closed source development piece of software is the same as open source. It is most certainly NOT. This is basically the John Carmack method of developing where he does everything himself and then puts it out there for others to use since he knew others would still come to his company for help and extra development even if the actual source was free.

He was however not an open source developer, neither is AMD with this model. Open source means cooperating openly with others from the ground up to actually benefit from the start since others might have ideas that could improve it but are fundamentally needed to come in from the start. What AMD wants it's to others just optimize later but basically play by their rules, a notch above Direct X and being at the whim of Microsoft's (lack of) interest on it, but certainly not an open source developed API like OpenGL

 

ok let's just make this clear, because you seem to be mistaken, that ppl are claiming that Mantle IS Open Source, thats not what we say or mean, rather that Mantle Will BE Open Source When It's Released.

Mantle closed  now ? yes it's not finished!

Q : when will it open then ?

A : when the beta ends, a Mantle SDK will be put public, for the community!

Q : really ? but it's closed!!

A : i know it's not released yet, it's a beta, it will be open when it's released!

Q : ok so it's not open ?

A : no it's not open yet, it's still in beta, but if you wait for release in couple months it will be open.

Q : yea but it's closed still right now ?

A : ok little buddy, mantle is closed and AMD sux, and nvidia rox, and happy new year

[Misanthrope]

Nope, there's a difference between me ignoring that argument and me disagreeing with it: I already say why I don't think being on "beta" is a justification for not opening the source: collaboration would actually help it's development not hinder it. A closed source company like AMD can eventually open source some of its stuff when it suits them, hell even Microsoft occasionally open sources some of it's stuff. Yet on the PCPer interview that dude went pretty hardcore shitting on Nvidia for gameworks when they're basically doing the same thing with Mantle.

 

I wouldn't mind AMD way of doing things if they didn't intentionally attack others for being closed source when they're just as motherfucking closed themselves.

[alamox]

One big issue there, no game will ever be developed primarily for Mantle. They will all be developed for DX first and Mantle second. That's a requirement that can never be changed because the market share of GPUs that can support Mantle is extremely small. A 280X is a rebranded 7970 GHz edition, yet the 280X supports Mantle but the 7970 can not. Mantle will always be second fiddle to DX.

 

 

 

I agree, but developers can start using more of the CPU, like using 8 cores/threads, and just use the CPU more efficiently in general, without the help of Mantle.

 

1-  7970 is compatible Mantle

2- well developing a game is often linked to  the API install base, yes as things are now, DX is a must, but i think all gamers hope that this will change with SteamOS

beside ppl having hope for lower overhead with DX12 haven't finished waiting, knowing the greed of microsoft, they will link it to windows 9 probably, and add some feature on windows 9 that will make it harder to adopt, and devs will be stuck with a player base fragmented between OS windows and have less than 10% using windows 9, which means, even when DX12 will be out, majority of games will still be developed on DX11.0 not even 11.2 because no one uses the freaking windows 8

[alamox]

Nope, there's a difference between me ignoring that argument and me disagreeing with it: I already say why I don't think being on "beta" is a justification for not opening the source: collaboration would actually help it's development not hinder it. A closed source company like AMD can eventually open source some of its stuff when it suits them, hell even Microsoft occasionally open sources some of it's stuff. Yet on the PCPer interview that dude went pretty hardcore shitting on Nvidia for gameworks when they're basically doing the same thing with Mantle.

 

I wouldn't mind AMD way of doing things if they didn't intentionally attack others for being closed source when they're just as motherfucking closed themselves.

 

ok question :

would you like for Nvidia cards to be compatible Mantle ? or do you prefere just Mantle to never exist ?

[Misanthrope]

ok question :

would you like for Nvidia cards to be compatible Mantle ? or do you prefere just Mantle to never exist ?

 

That's irrelevant I'm not answering it.

[jmaster299]

1-  7970 is compatible Mantle

2- well developing a game is often linked to  the API install base, yes as things are now, DX is a must, but i think all gamers hope that this will change with SteamOS

beside ppl having hope for lower overhead with DX12 haven't finished waiting, knowing the greed of microsoft, they will link it to windows 9 probably, and add some feature on windows 9 that will make it harder to adopt, and devs will be stuck with a player base fragmented between OS windows and have less than 10% using windows 9, which means, even when DX12 will be out, majority of games will still be developed on DX11.0 not even 11.2 because no one uses the freaking windows 8

Just double checked, and looks like you are correct. That's a change then since during the original Mantle release for BF4 there was no support for the 7970.

But as far as DX goes, Mantle will never replace it and will always be a secondary consideration. Yes it should technically get better as it moves forward, but it's purpose is still extremely limited. Even with my 3+ year old 2600K, I would get no benefit from suing Mantle. We also don't know how Mantle will affect other features. What happens when Nvidia gets their hands on it and finds out that it's designed in a way that prevents them from using things like Physx?

[alamox]

That's irrelevant I'm not answering it.

 

it is actualy the core of the issue, and you know why you refuse to answer.

[Misanthrope]

it is actualy the core of the issue, and you know why you refuse to answer.

 

The core of your issue has nothing to do with my argument: I just want people to call a spade a fucking spade.

[jmaster299]

it is actualy the core of the issue, and you know why you refuse to answer.

No, he made a very good point, and the question you are asking is irrelevant to his comment. Everyone is sucking at AMD's teet because they said they would make Mantle open source. But until that actually happens, they are no better and no different than Nvidia and Gameworks. The point, as I see it, is AMD fans can not use Mantle being open source as a positive thing until it actually happens. Until such time, it's a closed source program and can only be considered as such.

I'll make a very basic analogy. There is a closed door in front of you, but someone on the other side of that door says they promise to open for you. They don't say exactly when that will happen, but say only it will open once they finish doing something on the other side. Now, looking at that same door, can you say the door is open just because of that promise from the person on the other side? No, of course not, yet that's exactly what all the AMD fanboys are doing. They are claiming a close door is actually open all because someone promised to open it at some future date.

[alamox]

No, he made a very good point, and the question you are asking is irrelevant to his comment. Everyone is sucking at AMD's teet because they said they would make Mantle open source. But until that actually happens, they are no better and no different than Nvidia and Gameworks. The point, as I see it, is AMD fans can not use Mantle being open source as a positive thing until it actually happens. Until such time, it's a closed source program and can only be considered as such.

I'll make a very basic analogy. There is a closed door in front of you, but someone on the other side of that door says they promise to open for you. They don't say exactly when that will happen, but say only it will open once they finish doing something on the other side. Now, looking at that same door, can you say the door is open just because of that promise from the person on the other side? No, of course not, yet that's exactly what all the AMD fanboys are doing. They are claiming a close door is actually open all because someone promised to open it at some future date.

 

this is the weird part, when we take the road map set by the company saying that Mantle will be release open, and licence free.

when we start from this premise according the the roadmap, you jump in and say "now it's closed", and no one is arguing that, now it's closed but we are not talking about now, we are talking about post release according to the road map, it's beyond retarded.

and the question i asked is more than relevant, it shows him, how he really thinks, if he is thinking logicaly as a gamer looking for common benefit or not

[jmaster299]

this is the weird part, when we take the road map set by the company saying that Mantle will be release open, and licence free.

when we start from this premise according the the roadmap, you jump in and say "now it's closed", and no one is arguing that, now it's closed but we are not talking about now, we are talking about post release according to the road map, it's beyond retarded.

and the question i asked is more than relevant, it shows him, how he really thinks, if he is thinking logicaly as a gamer looking for common benefit or not

Again, no. A company saying something does not make it true. Look back at all the shit that has changed with the XBox One since it's first rumors started leaking online and even all the stuff that's changed since the official announcement. What a company says and what a company actually does are two different things. You can not call Mantle open source until such time has Mantle makes it 100% public. Since that has not happened yet, and even worse since AMD has given no time frame as to when that will happen, it can only be called a closed source program.

Your question about whether or not you think Nvidia should adopt Mantle is irrelevant. That question can not be asked until Mantle is made public for Nvidia to access it, and until we know what the finish product is. At this current time, with the shitty state Mantle is in, I don't think anyone should be using it. He was also right in saying that if AMD actually wants broad adoption of Mantle, they should make it public now since the more people who have access to it, the faster it can be perfected into a stable and working product.

[bogus]

Just like I said: haters gonna hate lol

So many delusional posts fueled by the hate of the success of an API.

[BobbyG2]

"by the end of the year", we'll know if AMD is telling the truth. Until than, everything else is speculation.

[jmaster299]

Just like I said: haters gonna hate lol So many delusional posts fueled by the hate of the success of an API.

But that's just it, Mantle has not been successful yet. The only delusional people are the ones who think it has been successful. 

[AxelRantila]

 

I agree, but developers can start using more of the CPU, like using 8 cores/threads, and just use the CPU more efficiently in general, without the help of Mantle.

This is something that should be a higher priority IMHO. There a good couple of games that I can see benefit from additional threads, but yet almost no one uses them

[bogus]

But that's just it, Mantle has not been successful yet. The only delusional people are the ones who think it has been successful.

Well it definatly moved the industry... No one can deny it. That's a success.

The future success will depend only on developers and AMD.

So far 47 developers using it without receiving any financial support from AMD it's quite an achievement. They actually feel the need to use it.

Unless the defenition of success changed somehow.

[deathjester]

One big issue there, no game will ever be developed primarily for Mantle. They will all be developed for DX first and Mantle second. That's a requirement that can never be changed because the market share of GPUs that can support Mantle is extremely small. A 280X is a rebranded 7970 GHz edition, yet the 280X supports Mantle but the 7970 can not. Mantle will always be second fiddle to DX.

 

 

 

I agree, but developers can start using more of the CPU, like using 8 cores/threads, and just use the CPU more efficiently in general, without the help of Mantle.

 

DirectX 11.2 user base has a smaller market share then AMD Mantle hardware does. 

 

 

But that's just it, Mantle has not been successful yet. The only delusional people are the ones who think it has been successful. 

 

Could you list off the DirectX 11.2 titles we have coming this year? I seem to have missed them all. Maybe you could help all the "delusional people" out with this. I am changing from Nvidia to AMD because of this. I guess that makes me "delusional". DX 12? Will be just as dead as 11.2 if MS doesn't put it on all the OS's. Add to that we won't see many DX 12 effect titles for years. Prob will need to wait for for "next next gen" titles to see them in mass, since "next gen" has DX 11 hardware.

 

You have two companies who want to attack Mantle. Microsoft which is the most astroturfed company on earth and Nvidia, which has as many idiotic fanboys as AMD. If it was garbage, developers wouldn't be using it. Nvidia and MS can throw more money at devs then AMD can. They are using it because our current DirectX is garbage, and no one is on 11.2. 

 

Fanboys are stupid and MS is full of @#%& and attacks any competing technology with vigor. Sooner you learn that? Better off you will be. I have seen tons of BF Hardline videos running Mantle fine and that game is in early beta. The only people attacking it are in the comments under the youtube video.

 

You go to their youtube page and they have reviews of Nokia, Surface, MS Win 8 reviews saying it is awesome, or videos about how awesome Nvidia is. Welcome to the new internet. Astroturfing BS. Fake reviews. Paid for blogs. Attacking technology that competes with yours. Not saying AMD doesn't do the same thing, I am saying until you have used the tech? Hold off a opinion. 

 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2365060/microsoft-caught-astroturfing-bloggers-again-to-promote-internet-explorer.html

^ Most recent example from MS. Not the only time this year they have been caught.

[alamox]

Again, no. A company saying something does not make it true. Look back at all the shit that has changed with the XBox One since it's first rumors started leaking online and even all the stuff that's changed since the official announcement. What a company says and what a company actually does are two different things. You can not call Mantle open source until such time has Mantle makes it 100% public. Since that has not happened yet, and even worse since AMD has given no time frame as to when that will happen, it can only be called a closed source program.

Your question about whether or not you think Nvidia should adopt Mantle is irrelevant. That question can not be asked until Mantle is made public for Nvidia to access it, and until we know what the finish product is. At this current time, with the shitty state Mantle is in, I don't think anyone should be using it. He was also right in saying that if AMD actually wants broad adoption of Mantle, they should make it public now since the more people who have access to it, the faster it can be perfected into a stable and working product.

 

my head is right where is should be, it's not my probleme if you keep trying to deflect the subject into something irrelevant. and my question was not about should nvidia or not , my question was personal to the him, his own opinion, because his answer will show the state of mind he argues from, logic or emotion, common good and green team yay.

 - discussion start by looking at the benefit of Mantle on the gaming industry in the futur according to the roadmap set by the developer of it being open.

 - someone jumps in to say Mantle is closed end of discussion

 - no one is talking about the state of mantle today, everyone agrees it's closed today, but we are analysing a future where Mantle is open and it's benefit.

 - any logical discussion from someone with a brain would go with the premise, and put forward the pros and the cons of Mantle to be relevant to the discussion, and he still can point out at the end, that HE personaly Doubt Strongly that AMD would Open Mantle in the future., which would be perfectly fine.

 - but he rather, stop the discussion promptly, by saying Mantle is Now closed, like if it's supposed to be an argument, in hope maybe of shuting down the discussion alltogether, especialy if he doesnt find alot of cons, or the Pros overweight the cons by a fair margin.