[VideoCardZ] Mantle Support List Leaked With 25+ games, Including GTA V.

[Hidden Orange]

Haha, nope its Mirror's Edge (Steam Summer Sale)

Er... Mirror's Edge (1) doesn't support Mantle since it's from 2009 on Unreal Engine 3. Mirror's Edge (2) will since it's the new game-reboot-sequel-thingie using Frostbite 3. It's the whole Tomb Raider (2013) & Tomb Raider (1996) thing where developers just call their games without numbering or subtitling them. Also both are "reboots". In a sense Tomb Raider (2013) is like a Marvel Ultimate universe while Tomb Raider (1996) is the main one. At least Ninja Theory and Capcom had the decency to call the reboot: DmC: Devil May Cry, instead of Devil May Cry (2013). Hopefully EA and DICE will title the new Mirror's Edge better.

[WhatTheQuack]

They are not talking about that Mirror's Edge lol

They're are talking about the this one:

.

Ah...

I really need to read things properly

[bogus]

I doubt Nvidia will join as long as AMD has control over Mantle.

And you can understand why. It would be stupid to allow PC gaming to go in a direction where the industry standard API is controlled by one vendor.

I say this even as a self-confessed AMD fanboy.

 

Now if AMD really open sources Mantle without restrictions then maybe somebody can pick it up, iterate and make it into an industry standard, with it's own release cycle similar to openGL. But it should be an independent body.

What I don't understand is why should Microsoft be the one who should control the industry standard API. They've been sloppy, careless, and neglecting PC Gaming for a long time, with void promises and delivering poor results.

Why should we, pc gamers, be set by the rythm of a OS vendor whos focus on gaming comes and goes as they please? If there is anything MS showed us is that they don't have what it takes to bring new solutions to pc gaming. They brought no inovation. I don't swallow the PR crap that they've been working on a low-level API for the last 3/4 years... that's just smoke and mirrors. They neglected pc gaming, because they took us for granted IMO.

I have both NVIDIA and AMD hardware, and of those 2 I would rather have the control of an API on AMD hands over NVIDIA. It's not because of NVIDIA technical abilities, wich are excelent and a fine example of great hardware, but because of their policys. I find them very harmfull to consumers, I say this not only as a gamer but also as a Markteer and a Product Manager. They are the kind of company who sets bad examples of my way of living, my profession. And if it wasn't for their pride and stuborness I would doubt AMD would cut them out, even if they wanted to bring something to the table - but apparently the buzzword on their marketing dpt. is "proprietary solutions".

I honestly don't belive in the "independent foundation" without the financial muscle and structure of a well tuned company, specially when it comes to R&D. If AMD was truthfull when they said they were willing to hear developers, and to deliver what they wanted just to see what they could come up with, it's the kind of thing we, gamers, need.

Like repi, one of the great minds of the current gaming industry, said on beyond 3D when confronted with the financial pressure of AMD to force Mantle development/implementation:

 

 

A lot of misinformation here. We did Mantle because it is something that we've been wanting to have for a _very_ long time and it is technically & strategically exactly the direction we want to go in to create better games and to push the industry forward. It was not a carefully financially estimated or decision planned in detail, it made strategic sense so pushed for it and we did it as live RnD project. And it was awesome.

Then with BF4 DICE and AMD had an marketing collaboration, but that is not what made us implement Mantle. Tech & the game itself comes first then marketing & the business follows and builds on that. Anything else would be crazy.

[BobbyG2]

The GTA V pending part excites me. Huge GTA fan and getting a free performance boost is awesome.

Honestly, the amount of developers adopting mantle surprises me. I think this might end up being the real deal.

[deathjester]

What I don't understand is why should Microsoft be the one who should control the industry standard API. They've been sloppy, careless, and neglecting PC Gaming for a long time, with void promises and delivering poor results.

Why should we, pc gamers, be set by the rythm of a OS vendor whos focus on gaming comes and goes as they please? If there is anything MS showed us is that they don't have what it takes to bring new solutions to pc gaming. They brought no inovation. I don't swallow the PR crap that they've been working on a low-level API for the last 3/4 years... that's just smoke and mirrors. They neglected pc gaming, because they took us for granted IMO.

I have both NVIDIA and AMD hardware, and of those 2 I would rather have the control of an API on AMD hands over NVIDIA. It's not because of NVIDIA technical abilities, wich are excelent and a fine example of great hardware, but because of their policys. I find them very harmfull to consumers, I say this not only as a gamer but also as a Markteer and a Product Manager. They are the kind of company who sets bad examples of my way of living, my profession. And if it wasn't for their pride and stuborness I would doubt AMD would cut them out, even if they wanted to bring something to the table - but apparently the buzzword on their marketing dpt. is "proprietary solutions".

I honestly don't belive in the "independent foundation" without the financial muscle and structure of a well tuned company, specially when it comes to R&D. If AMD was truthfull when they said they were willing to hear developers, and to deliver what they wanted just to see what they could come up with, it's the kind of thing we, gamers, need.

Like repi, one of the great minds of the current gaming industry, said on beyond 3D when confronted with the financial pressure of AMD to force Mantle development/implementation:

 

 

Agree that MS shouldn't be in charge of the go to game API. Also agree that AMD would prob be the best one to be in charge out of the big 3. AMD has the most to gain for low level API adoption and they are also the most desperate. AMD CPU's benefit a ton from it. They have every reason to want Mantle to be open source. 

 

Now as far as MS not working on a low level API and you believing they have nothing? Not true. They ported/demoed Forza in less than a month with a small team to a Nvidia GPU. MS could have released this crap a long time ago.

 

MS has a low level API, and it is probably super stable. MS however simply is not giving it to us because they are also in the console market and it destroys their consoles value. Add to that if released immediately it would have to be put on 7. Waiting until Holiday 2015? They can claim adoption rate is high enough on 9 or 8 to make it exclusive there.

 

 

I doubt Nvidia will join as long as AMD has control over Mantle.

And you can understand why. It would be stupid to allow PC gaming to go in a direction where the industry standard API is controlled by one vendor.

I say this even as a self-confessed AMD fanboy.

 

Now if AMD really open sources Mantle without restrictions then maybe somebody can pick it up, iterate and make it into an industry standard, with it's own release cycle similar to openGL. But it should be an independent body.

 

Anything is better than MS. Add to that AMD would benefit from a low level API being adopted. They are behind on single core CPU performance and they have every reason to want adoption. Out of the big 3 (Intel, Nvidia, AMD), AMD is who I would want at the forefront and I haven't owned an AMD GPU for a long time.  

[bogus]

Agree that MS shouldn't be in charge of the go to game API. Also agree that AMD would prob be the best one to be in charge out of the big 3. AMD has the most to gain for low level API adoption and they are also the most desperate. AMD CPU's benefit a ton from it. They have every reason to want Mantle to be open source. 

 

Now as far as MS not working on a low level API and you believing they have nothing? Not true. They ported/demoed Forza in less than a month with a small team to a Nvidia GPU. MS could have released this crap a long time ago.

 

MS has a low level API, and it is probably super stable. MS however simply is not giving it to us because they are also in the console market and it destroys their consoles value. Add to that if released immediately it would have to be put on 7. Waiting until Holiday 2015? They can claim adoption rate is high enough on 9 or 8 to make it exclusive there.

 

 

 

Anything is better than MS. Add to that AMD would benefit from a low level API being adopted. They are behind on single core CPU performance and they have every reason to want adoption. Out of the big 3 (Intel, Nvidia, AMD), AMD is who I would want at the forefront and I haven't owned an AMD GPU for a long time.  

Microsoft at E3 last year was running on Xbox One games on PCs way before Xbox One was released... there's even a know picture of it when one of the games crashed to Windows... 7... and alot of twitts reporting crashes to windows as well:

From what I recall it was on HP PCs with NVIDIA GPUs as well (someone correct me). So yeah, running Xbox One games versions on PC is no big deal... but running them with decent performance... now that's a whole other story. The Forza demo you are talking about was running @ 1080p 60 FPS... on a GTX Titan... thats a god tier GPU taking 60 FPS @ 1080p... not very impressive in my honest opinion - specially compared to consoles hardware.

About the rest... well since the only ones who made technical presentations Direct3D for DX12 on GDC2014 was staff from DICE/Oxide/AMD... neither a single NVIDIA/Microsoft employee, only the ones who helped to develop Mantle. Then the famous twitter posts from Johan Andersson, one of the minds behind Mantle:

 

 

 

1. Johan Andersson ‏@repi  20 de mar

   Direct3D 12 blog with some more details: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/03/20/directx-12.aspx … You may recognize the design

    
2. petr_tomicek ‏@petr_tomicek  20 de mar

   @repi Why does it feel like I am reading Mantle Programming Guide again?

   3. Johan Andersson‏@repi

@petr_tomicek

Source: https://twitter.com/repi/status/446787503953944576

Plus you had another Microsoft/AMD DirectX12 technical presentations to developers. Not sure if NVIDIA has ever made any technical presentation to developers on Direct3D in DirectX12.

And this are just small evidences that point me to say that DirectX12 announcement is more of a PR stunt, and AMD clearly gave more then just an oppinion to Direct3D... probably might be a Mantle destribution. There is more information about it that might back up this. In trade Mantle is getting all the others DX12 features. I just look at it has AMD contribution to the industry standard.

BUT! I'm not saying Microsoft and NVIDIA are sitting back on AMD work! Both are definatly making huge contributions with amazing and exciting technology that surelly will improve the gaming experience on everyone who uses DirectX 12!

[DLM_012]

This is looking rather promising Maybe I won't have to upgrade my 7950 as soon as I originally thought

[Victorious Secret]

Let the record show that Forza 5 manages to run at 1080p@60fps on the weak, launch XB1 GPU, so was using Titans required? Probably not. Why did they? I can't speculate. Did it make for great internet humour? Absolutely. 

 

AMDs problem is that Intel and Nvidia can incorporate Mantle into their own implementations (if it ever goes open source like AMD claims it will) and then what? Developers get to enjoy the fact that once again, they either pour MONEY into Linux which might not see returns, or spend even less (if anything) on platforms they already know and already plug away for. 

 

People need to understand that Linux costs money to develop for. If they can't balance those books, they have no real reason to do it. They are businesses first, and a small segment of the OS market being catered to doesn't make much sense. 

 

If anything they should focus more on OSX, that has a larger slice of the pie, but I abstain since you could go 12 rounds on that subject alone. 

[ericlee30]

Hell yes.

[deathjester]

snip

 

MS lies/exaggerates all the time through third party (legal ramifications), but you have to look at it this way.

 

What GPU's are supported under Nvidia? GTX 400 and up. How about AMD? 7000 and up (Mantle GCN). I think MS/Nvidia had this thing working quite awhile ago. I believe them when they say they have worked on it for 6 years or whatever. Do I think it is any better than Mantle? Nope, though it could be more stable since they have worked on it longer (Mantle is still considered beta). Any better than Sony  PS4 "Ice team's" custom low level OpenGL? Nope. The Ice team also said something like "looks awfully familiar". 

 

As to why they had it on a Titan? That is easy. If you look at youtube videos you will see many comments saying "see it takes a Titan Black to equal a Xbox One". Marketing is all it is. If they did it on a GTX 460? People would have laughed.  

[Poohy14]

more excited for Star Wars Battlefront

[Victorious Secret]

more excited for Star Wars Battlefront

 

All I keep thinking is "please DICE don't fuck this one up, and if you do please call DICE LA to do your patches"

For reference, ever since DICE walked away from BF4, DICE LA has been cleaning up the mess and implementing the patches and jesus, they've largely gone and fixed the game. AKA how DICE proper should've released it.

[Poohy14]

All I keep thinking is "please DICE don't fuck this one up, and if you do please call DICE LA to do your patches"

For reference, ever since DICE walked away from BF4, DICE LA has been cleaning up the mess and implementing the patches and jesus, they've largely gone and fixed the game. AKA how DICE proper should've released it.

 

yeah im really worried about it because I don't want it messed up and I never play it again like BF4 but I really don't care for BF3 or BF4 so I prefer the game not to be like that

[deathjester]

more excited for Star Wars Battlefront

 

Excited for a few games, but Battlefront is probably lead. The only AAA games I am excited about not on that list are Witcher 3 and Batman. Witcher 2 ran great on AMD GPU's though so I don't see that changing. Batman has always been Nvidia titles, so we will see what happens with it. 

[Poohy14]

Excited for a few games, but Battlefront is probably lead. The only AAA games I am excited about not on that list are Witcher 3 and Batman. Witcher 2 ran great on AMD GPU's though so I don't see that changing. Batman has always been Nvidia titles, so we will see what happens with it. 

 

never played any Witcher game nor batman

[alamox]

never played any Witcher game nor batman

 

the witcher series, is a must play RPG, you are really missing out, batman the 1st one is geat, loved the dialogue voice acting great game, 2nd batman they droped the ball on dialogue and stuff, but they focused more on boss fights and action, 3rd batman is complete crap in almost every aspect, i played it for like 2h then never touched it again.

[Humbug]

What I don't understand is why should Microsoft be the one who should control the industry standard API. They've been sloppy, careless, and neglecting PC Gaming for a long time, with void promises and delivering poor results.

Why should we, pc gamers, be set by the rythm of a OS vendor whos focus on gaming comes and goes as they please? If there is anything MS showed us is that they don't have what it takes to bring new solutions to pc gaming. They brought no inovation. I don't swallow the PR crap that they've been working on a low-level API for the last 3/4 years... that's just smoke and mirrors. They neglected pc gaming, because they took us for granted IMO.

I have both NVIDIA and AMD hardware, and of those 2 I would rather have the control of an API on AMD hands over NVIDIA. It's not because of NVIDIA technical abilities, wich are excelent and a fine example of great hardware, but because of their policys. I find them very harmfull to consumers, I say this not only as a gamer but also as a Markteer and a Product Manager. They are the kind of company who sets bad examples of my way of living, my profession. And if it wasn't for their pride and stuborness I would doubt AMD would cut them out, even if they wanted to bring something to the table - but apparently the buzzword on their marketing dpt. is "proprietary solutions".

I honestly don't belive in the "independent foundation" without the financial muscle and structure of a well tuned company, specially when it comes to R&D. If AMD was truthfull when they said they were willing to hear developers, and to deliver what they wanted just to see what they could come up with, it's the kind of thing we, gamers, need.

I agree. The other problem with Microsoft is that their API is limited to their platforms. So it's not a true industry standard API. It can't work on Linux, OSX etc... it's proprietary.

 

The ideal situation would be where a consortium with representation from guys like AMD, Nvidia, Intel, Epic, Valve, Crytek etc as well as representation from non-gaming graphics applications- and they all push hard to fix up and improve openGL. I guess that is what Khronos group is supposed to do but for whatever reason it's not happening.

[PortentousLad]

I think a "I told you so" is needed here.

And I'm not saying I was the only one to have said it.

[lufihengr]

if mantle is on linux/ubuntu then games are on it too!

 

ubuntu is waay better in gaming then windows. 

look at this FPS!!!

 

ubuntu already has native support for really good games like left 4 dead 2, metro 2033, witcher will be on ubuntu and so on. project cars will be on Steam OS

If the screen recorder on ubuntu was one that can use OpenGL or CL then it would have a lot more FPS right? At least my system chugs when I run Fraps, it's so bad!

 

And all the butthurt Nvidia fanboys come out of the woodworks

 

On a more serious note, what makes Mantle greater than DX12 that many may not realize is that looking at previous verisons of DX, it doesn't get maintained and updated very often and it's clear that from looking at the history that Microsoft doesn't care about PC gamers (as much as they keep trying to convince us otherwise). But with Mantle, you can potentially see many revisions throughout its lifetime without it being tied to Microsoft. AMD actually does care about PC gamers (it's consumers) and I'd rather back a company that does that than one that doesn't. If Nvidia would adopt Mantle instead of DX12 then it could mean huge possibilities for all PC games and not just AMD users. Currently it's AMD pushing the market forward as it always has.

I'm an Nvidia fanboy but I would be very happy if Nvidia would use Mantle. If the performance gains are huge with Mantle in like GTA V I might have to get AMD.. or another 780Ti. But I have to disagree with that last sentence, I can remember when they were quite far behind. 

[bogus]

MS lies/exaggerates all the time through third party (legal ramifications), but you have to look at it this way.

 

What GPU's are supported under Nvidia? GTX 400 and up. How about AMD? 7000 and up (Mantle GCN). I think MS/Nvidia had this thing working quite awhile ago. I believe them when they say they have worked on it for 6 years or whatever. Do I think it is any better than Mantle? Nope, though it could be more stable since they have worked on it longer (Mantle is still considered beta). Any better than Sony  PS4 "Ice team's" custom low level OpenGL? Nope. The Ice team also said something like "looks awfully familiar". 

 

As to why they had it on a Titan? That is easy. If you look at youtube videos you will see many comments saying "see it takes a Titan Black to equal a Xbox One". Marketing is all it is. If they did it on a GTX 460? People would have laughed.  

Everyone lies when it suits them. The problem is when they get caught.

I completly understand what you are saying, but then again that's what NVIDIA claims: I wouldnt be surprised if the 400/500/600 series would support "DirectX 12 Features" and NVIDIA claim "DirectX 12 support" like they did with DirectX11.2, when their GPUs don't support it - they support DX 11.1 with DX11.2 features. If you see any of product specification there is a * in the bottom "GPU supports DX 11.2 API, Hardware Feature Level 11_0""

But since DirectX12 isn't out, I can't comment on that - one thing is sure, AMD has its reasons to claim that only GCN cards will support it, probably because lies, or half truths, have a short life spam.

This is what AMD/DICE claimed:

If it's better or worst, that's a whole other story that without any way of setting them side by side, it's just really hard to say so.

[Misanthrope]

Let's not forget that so far AMD is only promising to open up Mantle and such but hasn't actually done so. They probably save that card for when they are largely more in par with Nvidia in performance if they manage to catch up, I honestly think their promise of opening up mantle by the end of this year is bullshit since I really don't think they'll jump far ahead enough to compete with Maxwell cards.

[Victorious Secret]

Let's not forget that so far AMD is only promising to open up Mantle and such but hasn't actually done so. They probably save that card for when they are largely more in par with Nvidia in performance if they manage to catch up, I honestly think their promise of opening up mantle by the end of this year is bullshit since I really don't think they'll jump far ahead enough to compete with Maxwell cards.

 

I think its bullshit too. 

 

Intel asked for Mantle, they didn't get it. You'd think it would make sense to let Intel in on the "beta" testing since Intel has the most GPUs out there right now, if you count the integrated solutions and according to AMD those count; so why not give it to the people who have a much larger userbase to try it on? 

 

You can scream about being open all day long, till you have all your files sitting on an all access server with anyone able to pull them off, they are just words. I'm sure Nvidia has little problem integrating Mantle into their cards and then having it be another irrelevant feature once support for it dies off. 

[Scionyde]

I think its bullshit too. 

 

Intel asked for Mantle, they didn't get it. You'd think it would make sense to let Intel in on the "beta" testing since Intel has the most GPUs out there right now, if you count the integrated solutions and according to AMD those count; so why not give it to the people who have a much larger userbase to try it on? 

 

You can scream about being open all day long, till you have all your files sitting on an all access server with anyone able to pull them off, they are just words. I'm sure Nvidia has little problem integrating Mantle into their cards and then having it be another irrelevant feature once support for it dies off. 

 

Intel wasn't allowed access to Mantle? I didn't hear about that part.

[Victorious Secret]

Intel wasn't allowed access to Mantle? I didn't hear about that part.

 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2365909/intel-approached-amd-about-access-to-mantle.html

 

AMD told Intel to wait for public release, if that ever happens. 

 

I don't know about you, but you don't tell the company that holds the majority of GPUs on the market to "wait" for your API. You give them your API right away and work with them. Intel making a choice on which API to stick with has consequences for the entire industry, and I don't think AMD is engaging in good business by keeping Mantle so locked off right now when what it actually needs is to be set loose for anyone and everyone to work on.

[bogus]

 

I think its bullshit too. 

 

Intel asked for Mantle, they didn't get it. You'd think it would make sense to let Intel in on the "beta" testing since Intel has the most GPUs out there right now, if you count the integrated solutions and according to AMD those count; so why not give it to the people who have a much larger userbase to try it on? 

 

You can scream about being open all day long, till you have all your files sitting on an all access server with anyone able to pull them off, they are just words. I'm sure Nvidia has little problem integrating Mantle into their cards and then having it be another irrelevant feature once support for it dies off. 

 

The hate is strong on some lol... About openning Mantle, I due time AMD will deliver.

I don't know why they would say it would be open, showing to developers that it can be supported in different architectures and not deliver in the end.

About Intel asking for Mantle access, why would Intel get the early access before every other IHVs? Specially when Mantle is not finished? When SDKs go public they will be available for Intel, NVIDIA, and everyone else who is interested, at the same time. You mean irrelevant feature like Physx, Gameworks and 3D Vision?