Kingston and PNY ARE NOT Bait and Switching SSDs

[Brainiac777]

This article: http://www.gamersnexus.net/news-pc/1511-pny-kingston-how-this-industry-works

 

States that Kingston and PNY aren't "scamming" their customers as quoted:

"Scam," "fraud," "shadiness," and "lawsuit" are all words that have been somewhat haphazardly plastered across forums and websites this past week, with particular disdain expressed toward SSD makers Kingston and PNY. The internet's bandwagon mentality almost mandates a perpetuity of rage without necessitating a fundamental understanding of the industry toward which that rage is directed. It is an unfortunate side effect of social media that 'shares' and 'likes' will undoubtedly be attributed toward advocacy campaigns without the sharers ever reading accompanying links -- let alone clicking them.

 

Here's the deal: We wrote about Kingston's NAND switch in its V300 a few months ago, whereupon the synchronous NAND V300 was benchmarked against its asynchronous successor. The controversy here was spurred-on by Anandtech, whose writers had spotted user-conducted benchmarks of the V300 SSD on its own forums; the benchmarks consistently showed performance lower than what professional reviewers had seen a year prior. The reason, it was discovered, was a result of a supply-side change of the NAND Flash utilized in the device. Although Kingston shipped the V300 with its original BOM for an entire year, it recently switched from Toshiba's 19nm Toggle-Mode 2.0 NAND to a 20nm Micron alternative; this was entirely for cost and supply reasons, we're told by Kingston, but users have seen a performance impact from the switch.

 

Kingston sent its V300 to reviewers more than a year ago now (4Q12 / 1Q13, from memory). As always, it received numerous reviews throughout the initial sample seeding cycle, then began shipping to market in short order. Consumers who purchased the device would find that their models performed almost identically to media samples, when tested properly. It wasn't until around December of 2013, a full year after its announcement, that changes were found in shipping retail models.

A very similar story is true for PNY.

[JLCitadel]

Meh

[Misanthrope]

Nope, it's still bullshit: it would literally take em no efford to rename them as the "v301" All companies run into demand issues but if you were to buy a brand new Maxwell Nvidia card and you got a rebranded Kepler one, you'd be fucking pissed if they labeled and sold it to you as "Nvidia 880" without telling you they downgraded it to a 780.

[daemonowner]

There are so many instances of different versions of power supplies being released in quick succession. The CX v1, v2 and v3 for example. Calling it a v301 or v310 or something would've been easy. I assume the reason they didn't was because the 'v310' would be slower than the current v300, and they already have good press for the v300.

[Misanthrope]

There are so many instances of different versions of power supplies being released in quick succession. The CX v1, v2 and v3 for example. Calling it a v301 or v310 or something would've been easy. I assume the reason they didn't was because the 'v310' would be slower than the current v300, and they already have good press for the v300.

 

Even so:

 

V300s as in "slower"

 

V299

 

V200+100

 

B300

 

I mean shit I can come up with more names than people who come up with excuses for it.

[Lyons]

Wait, so they DID change the part out? And people DID see a performance decrease compared to the initial release model? So they ARE selling an under performing product?

gg OP

[Brainiac777]

Wait, so they DID change the part out? And people DID see a performance decrease compared to the initial release model? So they ARE selling an under performing product?

gg OP

The point isn't the performance decrease, the point is that Kingston and PNY did not send out faster units to reviewers and give crappy ones to the consumers, they changed it for everyone.

[Lyons]

The point isn't the performance decrease, the point is that Kingston and PNY did not send out faster units to reviewers and give crappy ones to the consumers, they changed it for everyone.

Did they advertise the change, though? Was it still advertised as having the original part? Did they drop the price accordingly? I'm genuinely curious

[Misanthrope]

Did they advertise the change, though? Was it still advertised as having the original part? Did they drop the price accordingly? I'm genuinely curious

 

It's on the article: They didn't advertise the change and so far have not apologized or anything for it saying it's "industry standard"

[Lyons]

It's on the article

 

Heh, I know. I'd like to hear it from the OP as the thread title is pretty misleading.

[IPCharger]

Oh, so companies can do whatever they want with products that have been more than 1 year on the market. Seems legit. Imagine if Nvidia started selling GTX 780s with the performance of 770s after 1 year of being released because of "cost and supply reasons". This kind of behaviour must be erradicated and punished. 

[Hidden Orange]

Oh, so companies can do whatever they want with products that have been more than 1 year on the market. Seems legit. Imagine if Nvidia started selling GTX 780s with the performance of 770s after 1 year of being released because of "cost and supply reasons". This kind of behaviour must be erradicated and punished. 

Or praised and encouraged on the corrupt side of the industry.  

[IPCharger]

Or praised and encouraged on the corrupt side of the industry.  

Actually I wouldn't be surprised if they end up recieveing a class action lawsuit.

[Brainiac777]

Did they advertise the change, though? Was it still advertised as having the original part? Did they drop the price accordingly? I'm genuinely curious

I can notice the rhetoric from your questions, and as I've stated before, that's not the issue with this problem. Companies do not have to advertise the changes they make to their products, while I agree that it is wrong since it is lying to the customer, it should not be a surprise. Many other companies have done things like this, Nvidia quietly released a GTX 460 V2 with a lower memory bus, and Intel changed their TIM on their CPUs without any notice. If you don't like the change, then don't buy the product.

[Hidden Orange]

Actually I wouldn't be surprised if they end up recieveing a class action lawsuit.

It won't stop other corporations from pulling shit like this. You know how humans and greed are.

[daemonowner]

The point isn't the performance decrease, the point is that Kingston and PNY did not send out faster units to reviewers and give crappy ones to the consumers, they changed it for everyone.

They changed it for everyone, except the reviews are out there and they aren't handing more out for reviews. They kept the change quiet.

[Misanthrope]

I can notice the rhetoric from your questions, and as I've stated before, that's not the issue with this problem. Companies do not have to advertise the changes they make to their products, while I agree that it is wrong since it is lying to the customer, it should not be a surprise.

They do have to: slightly change the product name or state the change, otherwise it constitutes false advertising in many jurisdictions

Just because it's a widespread crime or many get away with it doesn't makes it any less of a crime: stop minimizing it

[TheProfosist]

This happens all the time with tons of stuff. Anyone notice the disclaimer on the product pages? That's there for this reason.

[IPCharger]

It won't stop other corporations from pulling shit like this. You know how humans and greed are.

Unless people stop buying their products, which is why this scandal was created in the first place, to boycott PNY and Kingston. The thing I don't understand is why some people are trying to justify their actions, like the article in this thread.

[EChondo]

So, have Kingston and/or PNY came out and have made an official statement yet?

 

Until then, as far as I know, they cannot be trusted and that will remain so until they fix this.

 

All their future products will now be under a watchful eye and scrutinized harshly just because of this.

 

Do not bite the hand that feeds you.

[IPCharger]

So, have Kingston and/or PNY came out and have made an official statement yet?

 

Until then, as far as I know, they cannot be trusted and that will remain so until they fix this.

 

All their future products will now be under a watchful eye and scrutinized harshly just because of this.

 

Do not bite the hand that feeds you.

 

Worst of all, they could have renamed the new one and they would have still sold a lot of them, because they still are the cheapest SSDs. But they chose to get more profits in the short term and that is really going to hurt their profits in the long term, unless they actually make an official statement and apologize for their actions.

 

Dear Kingston and PNY, the people that buy SSDs are mainly enthusiasts, not sheep like a large part of Apple customers. You can't get away with things like this.

[TheProfosist]

and still no one reads my posts...

[Brainiac777]

and still no one reads my posts...

People do not have to reply to your post to have read it, and why does it matter so much? You are immature.

[TheProfosist]

People do not have to reply to your post to have read it, and why does it matter so much? You are immature.

Yep im totally immature...

I could care less if people reply to them. What bugs me is when I see following posts completely disregard them and keeping on going about the same thing even when a piece of information that they never apparently considered is presented.

[Me1z]

and still no one reads my posts...

 

I read your posts, I tend to read everyone's posts unless I come across a thread that is 10+ pages long and everyone is simply repeating a variation of the same comments over and over again. With those topics I skim through for members I recognize, like you for example. In your other post you defended Kingston and PNY, saying that the disclaimers are there for a reason. I have always been of the opinion that disclaimers are worthless because they essentially claim that everything you have seen advertised about the product may be entirely false and/or changed at a moments notice and that corporations have a self awarded "right" to screw everyone over because they claim not to be responsible for any of their actions. That's like walking around with a shirt that says I could kill someone at any moment and because I wore that shirt I am no longer responsible for my actions nor can I be punished when I decide to go on a killing spree.