Are we actually cooked?

[Stahlmann]

So last summer I bought a 2nd hand PNY 4080, already including two waterblocks (one installed, the other one because the seller wanted to get rid of it aswell), for 725€. At the time I thought it was a decent deal, but nothing special. Now I realized it was basically a steal. When looking at ebay, even last gen 4000 series GPUs are insanely expensive after the 5000 series paper launch. I could literally resell my GPU now and make >500€ profit. Is the market actually cooked?

 

I didn't understand people paying $1500 for a 3080 at it's launch. And I especially don't understand people buying scalped $4000 5090's. Heck, even 1st parties are basically selling at scalper prices, even though they have nothing to sell.

 

How are people THAT desperate to buy a new GPU, even with these insane prices? We're at a point where people pay scalpers to redirect a preorder. They don't even have the card in hand and already make money off it. It's absolute insanity.

 

If there are so many people giving in, then I say we as a collective deserve it.

[WereCat]

I don't understand it either. Unfortunately few people seem to be willing to buy 2nd hand. Likewise getting 6800 XT for 400EUR in early 2023 was the best deal I've ever done and to this day if I wanted the same performance I would end up having to spend 550EUR+ for new... to beat a card from 2020....

[Agall]

10 minutes ago, Stahlmann said:

How are people THAT desperate to buy a new GPU

I don't think the average consumer is doing that. There's also the possibility that these scalped cards aren't actually selling.

 

I just think back to the games people I know actually play. Most aren't playing the latest AAA titles, and are playing decades old games. Most I know would benefit from a CPU upgrade before a GPU, since the 1080ti they bought new is more than plenty to play WoW, Pubg, Dota, LoL, overwatch2, Warfarme, Diablo 4, CS2, etc.

[WereCat]

4 minutes ago, Agall said:

Most I know would benefit from a CPU upgrade before a GPU, since the 1080ti they bought new is more than plenty to play WoW, Pubg, Dota, LoL, overwatch2, Warfarme, Diablo 4, CS2, etc.

 

finally someone understands

[podkall]

5 minutes ago, Agall said:

I don't think the average consumer is doing that. There's also the possibility that these scalped cards aren't actually selling.

I doubt if scalped 4080s 4090s 7900 XTXs weren't selling, they'd be scalping 50-series,

 

though since Nvidia got such low supply of them, that might be one of the problems with getting 50-series cards now.

[podkall]

1 minute ago, WereCat said:

finally someone understands

of course, but not everyone that owns 1080ti wants to play just those esports games,

 

some people want to play Cities Skylines before it's able to run stable 60fps on 4090

[WereCat]

Just now, podkall said:

I doubt if scalped 4080s 4090s 7900 XTXs weren't selling, they'd be scalping 50-series,

 

though since Nvidia got such low supply of them, that might be one of the problems with getting 50-series cards now.

To be honest I've never encountered the old stock to disappear from listings as fast as now. I already can't find a single listing for 4080 / 4080S / 4090 and we've just got 5000 series cards.

[Agall]

1 minute ago, WereCat said:

 

finally someone understands

 

I have a few friends in this situation too, they're running 8700k's and 1080tis and I've told for a couple years now for them to just keep the 1080ti and build a new system with 3D v-cache.

 

I honestly don't know anyone personally who only plays the latest AAA games. There's a selection bias here, since as someone who plays primarily live service games, I interact with the same types of people, and all my IRL friends are the same type.

 

The amount of people I know who regularly play Cyberpunk 2077? 0. 

[xhackforeverxdx]

15 minutes ago, Stahlmann said:

So last summer I bought a 2nd hand PNY 4080, already including two waterblocks (one installed, the other one because the seller wanted to get rid of it aswell), for 725€. At the time I thought it was a decent deal, but nothing special. Now I realized it was basically a steal. When looking at ebay, even last gen 4000 series GPUs are insanely expensive after the 5000 series paper launch. I could literally resell my GPU now and make >500€ profit. Is the market actually cooked?

 

I didn't understand people paying $1500 for a 3080 at it's launch. And I especially don't understand people buying scalped $4000 5090's. Heck, even 1st parties are basically selling at scalper prices, even though they have nothing to sell.

 

How are people THAT desperate to buy a new GPU, even with these insane prices? We're at a point where people pay scalpers to redirect a preorder. They don't even have the card in hand and already make money off it. It's absolute insanity.

 

If there are so many people giving in, then I say we as a collective deserve it.

I also dont get it like how does the 5080 sell out its just a worse 4090 and those where still in stock some months ago some for 1700 and now ur telling me the 5080 sells out for worse perfomance but almost getting up to the same price da hell is going on and dont get me started on the 5070ti its basicly a 4080 reskin for pretty much the same price in todays market when nobody bought 4080s before i dont understand anything at all atm 

[Agall]

5 minutes ago, podkall said:

I doubt if scalped 4080s 4090s 7900 XTXs weren't selling, they'd be scalping 50-series,

 

though since Nvidia got such low supply of them, that might be one of the problems with getting 50-series cards now.

I could see the primary customers for scalped RTX 5000 series cards being businesses who need them for AI or 3D accelerated work who can justify spending 2x the amount to have it now.

[thekingofmonks]

6 minutes ago, WereCat said:

I don't understand it either. Unfortunately few people seem to be willing to buy 2nd hand. Likewise getting 6800 XT for 400EUR in early 2023 was the best deal I've ever done and to this day if I wanted the same performance I would end up having to spend 550EUR+ for new... to beat a card from 2020....

I would've scored a 6800XT with 1 dead fan for $260 (~330 was the average used price in my country) instead of a 3070 for if it weren't for the seller being sluggish and missing the shipping deadline just as I was about leave the country...

 

F8ck Nvidia with their 8GB trash

[Agall]

1 minute ago, thekingofmonks said:

I would've scored a 6800XT with 1 dead fan for $260

Big score considering deshrouding is an easy mod to most graphics cards. A dead fan I'd even just cut the front shroud off than meticulously removing it. Whether you just adapt the fan headers to normal 4 pins or wire them up to the motherboard with the controlling device being PCIE16.

[Jerakl]

Yeah solid chance it's joever for a lil bit here.
I kinda saw this coming and got a 7900xtx for like ~100$ below MSRP in early jan, but I didn't expect it to reach the levels we're currently seeing.

I have a friend who is still running a 1080, but it was chugging @ ~30 fps in the new MH game. Problem is there's basically nothing to buy for a reasonable price new, and the used market is kinda following.

At least I'll be able to sell my 3080 12g for a solid price lmfao

[WereCat]

11 minutes ago, thekingofmonks said:

I would've scored a 6800XT with 1 dead fan for $260 (~330 was the average used price in my country) instead of a 3070 for if it weren't for the seller being sluggish and missing the shipping deadline just as I was about leave the country...

 

F8ck Nvidia with their 8GB trash

I was actually upgrading from 3060ti to 6800 XT.

I went from 1080ti -> 3060ti -> 6800 XT

 

I've bough the 3060ti for 700EUR at the height of mining craze... but I've sold my 1080ti for 600EUR so it was a 100EUR upgrade/side grade depending on game but at the time it was mostly worth it.

And I can do almost 20% OC on my 6800 XT after I took it apart and fixed the temp issues with bad cooler mount which puts it roughly just above RTX 3090 in raster performance... on Windows. I'm on Linux now so I can't touch VRAM OC at all or everything breaks and there are not some of the more advanced OC RDNA2 tools available so I'm getting 10% boost at most. Still, for 400EUR this card is more than capable of 1440p without upscaling even in new games. Not at max settings but I basically almost never use max settings anyways.

 

Basically what is even my upgrade path?

7900GRE is basically a sidegrade. 7900XT is such a small upgrade I may not even bother, yet it costs well over 600EUR. 7900 XTX is the only thing that somewhat makes sense performance wise but it's typically around 900EUR+ for around 50% more performance at most.

RX 9070 will likely be in the same boat as those above but maybe slightly cheaper and NVIDIA alternatives are 1200EUR+ ...

[PDifolco]

23 minutes ago, WereCat said:

To be honest I've never encountered the old stock to disappear from listings as fast as now. I already can't find a single listing for 4080 / 4080S / 4090 and we've just got 5000 series cards.

Nah we got nothing

[podkall]

19 minutes ago, WereCat said:

To be honest I've never encountered the old stock to disappear from listings as fast as now. I already can't find a single listing for 4080 / 4080S / 4090 and we've just got 5000 series cards.

well, there are listings,

 

just, 600$ above MSRP: (you know 60% mark up...)

 

 

 

17 minutes ago, Agall said:

I could see the primary customers for scalped RTX 5000 series cards being businesses who need them for AI or 3D accelerated work who can justify spending 2x the amount to have it now.

if these people didn't go bankrupt by now, I'm sure they can afford to wait a while for re-stock...

 

like, if their business didn't run already without 50-series, what's stopping them for waiting that while?

[WereCat]

Just now, PDifolco said:

Nah we got nothing

Correction:

 

"...and we're just able to search and find listings for 5000 series cards."

[WereCat]

1 minute ago, podkall said:

well, there are listings,

 

just, 600$ above MSRP: (you know 60% mark up...)

 

"image"

 

if these people didn't go bankrupt by now, I'm sure they can afford to wait a while for re-stock...

 

like, if their business didn't run already without 50-series, what's stopping them for waiting that while?

Interestingly, yesterday I could not find any 4080 / 4080S lisitng but now there is single listing for 4080 also for an amazing deal.

[Stahlmann]

It's just weird that the demand is apparently so high that even last gen was snatched up in an instant once people found out 5000 series is a no-no.

[Agall]

3 minutes ago, podkall said:

like, if their business didn't run already without 50-series, what's stopping them for waiting that while?

Depends on if they've already got RTX 4090's or not.

 

As someone beholden to non-tech business people for the finances to make tech decisions, their ability to make very poor tech decisions is very high, like not buying RTX 4090's for these kinds of purposes.

 

Business people in my experience will spend 2x the amount on a product just to expedite shipping because they refused to make proactive upgrades and now it has to be replaced.

[PDifolco]

3 minutes ago, WereCat said:

Correction:

 

"...and we're just able to search and find listings for 5000 series cards."

Atm only AMD cards are available at nice price in France :

 

 

[Agall]

2 minutes ago, Stahlmann said:

It's just weird that the demand is apparently so high that even last gen was snatched up in an instant once people found out 5000 series is a no-no.

I'm skeptical the demand is that high. I think there's just enough systems in place to seize the supply through bots that the only buyers left practically have to buy scalped cards. Everyone else who is making a proper value/moral judgement simply isn't buying them (like all of us, hopefully).

[WereCat]

27 minutes ago, Agall said:

I have a few friends in this situation too, they're running 8700k's and 1080tis and I've told for a couple years now for them to just keep the 1080ti and build a new system with 3D v-cache.

 

I honestly don't know anyone personally who only plays the latest AAA games. There's a selection bias here, since as someone who plays primarily live service games, I interact with the same types of people, and all my IRL friends are the same type.

 

The amount of people I know who regularly play Cyberpunk 2077? 0. 

I also wonder how many graphics card generations can you sell based on features that run in Cyberpunk2077.

I mean... that game is 5y old by now and does not really have much of a replay value. I wonder how many people replay games just because they look better? Is that actually a thing or am I just crazy?

[porina]

34 minutes ago, podkall said:

some people want to play Cities Skylines before it's able to run stable 60fps on 4090

I've logged hundred+ hours on C:S2 at under 30fps, low averages of 20fps. If you get the settings right, while the graphics update at 20fps, the UI is still at your monitor refresh so you don't get control lag.

 

33 minutes ago, WereCat said:

To be honest I've never encountered the old stock to disappear from listings as fast as now. I already can't find a single listing for 4080 / 4080S / 4090 and we've just got 5000 series cards.

My guess as to what happened here is that Nvidia predicted in advance when to stop production of the old GPUs so they would run out about the same time the new ones were introduced. The problem was, the manufacturing of the new ones were delayed for whatever reason, leaving a gap. Thus the outgoing gen sold out with nothing to replace it. Everyone planning to build a new system around the new gen has a system sat around without a higher end GPU.

 

32 minutes ago, Agall said:

The amount of people I know who regularly play Cyberpunk 2077? 0. 

I'm on another forum, where I'm the exception as it feels like I'm the only person without CP2077. Not my type of game, but I was tempted to get it on sale just to look around the game world. I think it is possibly peak gaming graphics.

 

32 minutes ago, xhackforeverxdx said:

I also dont get it like how does the 5080 sell out its just a worse 4090 and those where still in stock some months ago some for 1700 and now ur telling me the 5080 sells out for worse perfomance but almost getting up to the same price da hell is going on and dont get me started on the 5070ti its basicly a 4080 reskin for pretty much the same price in todays market when nobody bought 4080s before i dont understand anything at all atm 

5080 is arguably the 3rd best performing gaming GPU ever, behind only the 4090 and 5090. It might not be much better than the 4080(S), but it still is. At launch MSRP it was also same/cheaper than the 4080 offerings. Likewise the 5070 Ti is still 4080 class, for less. I don't see a problem with that, and in fact today received a MSRP 5070 Ti (post on my profile). I really wanted a 5080, but the 5070 Ti is close enough.

 

Because of the shortages, pricing might be elevated so it looks bad until that adjusts when production catches up. Geopolitics aside anyway, but that's outside the manufacturer's control.

[podkall]

6 minutes ago, Agall said:

Depends on if they've already got RTX 4090's or not.

 

As someone beholden to non-tech business people for the finances to make tech decisions, their ability to make very poor tech decisions is very high, like not buying RTX 4090's for these kinds of purposes.

 

Business people in my experience will spend 2x the amount on a product just to expedite shipping because they refused to make proactive upgrades and now it has to be replaced.

Still if you're doing AI stuff, you either already have flagship card, or you have good enough card/system/server/whatever that does that AI stuff.

 

Otherwise you'd just be doing something very very weak or limited regardless, and your only reason to buy such thing would be wanting to do more, which is terrible reason to pay almost double price.