Fiio E10 vs Onboard Audio

[Cs342]

Is it weird that I can't tell the difference between my E10 and my onboard audio? Luckily the reason I bought an E10 was because my front audio jack is broken and my headphone cable isn't long enough to reach the back of my motherboard, but I expected at least a slight improvement in audio quality. 

[ZetZet]

No it's not weird. It's completely normal.

[JAKEBAB]

what headphones are u using?

 

apparently e10s arent great tho

[BoredErica]

Of course not. If your onboard was fine in the first place, getting some external DAC won't really help. At least the difference won't be readily audible, anyways.

 

what headphones are u using?

 

apparently e10s arent great tho

 

You ask him what headphones he is using but not what onboard he uses?

I've compared HD800s from my MSI G45 gaming onboard vs Objective combo with HD800s. So yea. I've yet to set up a proper blind test but my impressions from my 15 minutes of testing, I could not seem to be able to tell a difference. (Note: As I said, testing I did was not exhaustive, but if I can't tell a big difference in 15 minutes then the difference can't be night and day.) And that's with onboard amp and dac, too. That's right, HD800s on onboard amp. I'm just sayin'. Blind test your new gear before you blindly call it an upgrade. It's more expensive, so it must sound better! Maybe if you've got good ears, but the differences between good onboard and external solutions are still overblown IMO.

[JAKEBAB]

Of course not. If your onboard was fine in the first place, getting some external DAC won't really help. At least the difference won't be readily audible, anyways.

 

 

You ask him what headphones he is using but not what onboard he uses?

I've compared HD800s from my MSI G45 gaming onboard vs Objective combo with HD800s. So yea. I've yet to set up a proper blind test but my impressions from my 15 minutes of testing, I could not seem to be able to tell a difference. And that's with onboard amp and dac, too. That's right, HD800s on onboard amp.

 

Your onboard is quite a bit better than general onboard but id assume if u were using an objective odac and compared it to his baords on board u would tell a difference would u not?

 

(not an audiophile by anymeans)

[BoredErica]

lol.PNG

 

Your onboard is quite a bit better than general onboard but id assume if u were using an objective odac and compared it to his baords on board u would tell a difference would u not?

 

(not an audiophile by anymeans)

I cannot speak for the motherboard because I don't own it and I have not tested it myself.

But I'm just saying, the differences between good onboard vs Objective are surprisingly small.

 

Obviously as you might say, "How the hell do we know if this or that onboard is good? There are tons of different mobos out there and the onboard are all different." And you'd be right. But the thing is, a $30 sound card should put us all on a level playing field. Buying a $30 card because you're not sure if your onboard is good or bad seems fine to me, it's only $30. That's why I recommend a cheap solution every time. But if somebody wants a more expensive solution (they have good ears or they just want it just because, like me  ), go ahead and grab that Objective or whatever you want. And I'm an Objective fanboy too, I'm just trying to be as frank as I can.

[Cs342]

lol.PNG

 

Your onboard is quite a bit better than general onboard but id assume if u were using an objective odac and compared it to his baords on board u would tell a difference would u not?

 

(not an audiophile by anymeans)

How is it better than general onboard?

[creatip123]

Echo-ing what Dark W said. There are 3 factors at play in the case:

 

- The quality of onboard used

- The quality of the headphone

- The ears ability to hear small nuances differences

 

Originally I was using the Xonar DG, which is quite decent. Then when I upgraded my headphone, I bought the Fiio E07k, for an extra amp. When I use the E07k's DAC, I found it's better than the DG, in that it's a little cleaner (less noise), and have wider feeling. Understandable, considering my mobo was half dead (so assuming the DG produced more noises due to bad mobo)

 

Then I got the E10, and comparing it with the E07k, there's also a small difference. The E10 got a little wider feeling and more balanced, whilst the E07k emphasizes a bit more on vocals. Again, the difference is very small, and I'm not saying which is better, just different.

 

Then my mobo died, and had to get a new mobo. My new mobo's onboard is a lot better than my old one's, and it's certainly on par with the E10, but again small differences.

 

So it comes down to preferences in the end. Which one you like best, not so much of which one is better. If you can't hear the difference, than that's fine too, nothing wrong with that. 

[Rorgash]

yea.. one big thing most people who(while i agree that there would only be a small difference in most cases) say that there is no difference between onboard and a good amp/dac combo or some flac files compared to good mp3's, i think most of them miss out on one HUGE component and that is their OWN ears, hearing is sensitive, your hearing degrades as you get older starting at around 25 or such and any loud noise during your life can have had an effect there as well and its hard to avoid some of the time, i mean acustic experts tends to have great hearing and they are picky as HELL. while we normal folks should make sure we do our research and only buy what we can actually use

[BoredErica]

yea.. one big thing most people who(while i agree that there would only be a small difference in most cases) say that there is no difference between onboard and a good amp/dac combo or some flac files compared to good mp3's, i think most of them miss out on one HUGE component and that is their OWN ears, hearing is sensitive, your hearing degrades as you get older starting at around 25 or such and any loud noise during your life can have had an effect there as well and its hard to avoid some of the time, i mean acustic experts tends to have great hearing and they are picky as HELL. while we normal folks should make sure we do our research and only buy what we can actually use

And yet, acoustic experts fall into placebo effect and expectation bias like all of us mortals. They have to be ever vigilant of those factors.

 

In the end though, if you can't hear a difference, no, you're ears are not damaged, you're not retarded, and hell, you can save yourself some money. But I understand the psychological need to be able to hear small differences. 

[Lays]

Going from my onboard sound to my fiio e5+ fiio d3 was an enormous improvement, but my onboard is absolutely atrocious.

Not sure what's wrong with my onboard, it sounds fine for my speakers, but plug in decent-quality headphones, and it sounds like they're underwater and extremely bland.

 

 

I noticed a small difference from my fiio d3 + e5, to my o2+odac, but honestly it's not a 200$ difference at all.  All I got was a little tiny bit clearer sound.

 

When I get my LCD-2 I'm gonna try some speaker amps vs the o2, audeze's "optimal" power requirement for the LCD-2 is apparently 1-4 watts, and I believe the o2 does like ~400 mw at 70 ohm, so it may add a little bit more volume+ depth maybe.

I may make a big review, not sure yet.

[Rorgash]

In the end though, if you can't hear a difference, no, you're ears are not damaged, you're not retarded, and hell, you can save yourself some money. But I understand the psychological need to be able to hear small differences. 

 

depends on what they cant hear a difference on, if they cant hear a difference between my V Moda M-100's and my G930 their ears ARE damaged (which is quite normal these days with kids playing music WAY TO FUCKING LOUD RIGHT INTO THEIR EARS...

 

I got one ear that isnt as good as the other, its a small difference(tested at doctors) meaning super low sounds wont get picked up in that ear, luckily my other ear is quite good

[creatip123]

yea.. one big thing most people who(while i agree that there would only be a small difference in most cases) say that there is no difference between onboard and a good amp/dac combo or some flac files compared to good mp3's, i think most of them miss out on one HUGE component and that is their OWN ears, hearing is sensitive, your hearing degrades as you get older starting at around 25 or such and any loud noise during your life can have had an effect there as well and its hard to avoid some of the time, i mean acustic experts tends to have great hearing and they are picky as HELL. while we normal folks should make sure we do our research and only buy what we can actually use

 

Which would be quite a blessing actually. My brother can't tell a difference between same songs played directly from Iphone's analog out, compared to using the LOD, plugged into an ALO Audio International amp ($700+ amp). Because he can't tell a difference, he doesn't care much (if any at all) about external amps. Me, I can tell a difference (at least I believe I can), but can't afford it. So yeah, it will always be in the back of my head, haunting me....

 

 

depends on what they cant hear a difference on, if they cant hear a difference between my V Moda M-100's and my G930 their ears ARE damaged (which is quite normal these days with kids playing music WAY TO FUCKING LOUD RIGHT INTO THEIR EARS...

 

I got one ear that isnt as good as the other, its a small difference(tested at doctors) meaning super low sounds wont get picked up in that ear, luckily my other ear is quite good

 

This actually got me thinking a while back. When I got together with audio people (who have much more mileage than me), I noticed they always listen and enjoy songs at much lower volume than me. Whenever I handed them my headphone (playing at my normal volume), they almost always cringed a bit and turn the volume down. Made me thinking, I gotta start on a loudness diet.....

[JAKEBAB]

How is it better than general onboard?

i was talking about @Dark_wizzie onboard on his msi g45 gaming motherboard.

[ShearMe]

I don't wanna say I sold off a 700 dollar DAC/Amp stack and now use a little $40 OEM unit, but...

...there's not a huge difference between amps.

[Hyp0xia]

I don't hear any difference between the E10 and the relatively high-end on-board audio of the ASUS Maximus VII Hero. I do, however, find the E10 to be a very handy gadget. It amplifies well ans it provides dual outputs.

[theodoro]

Onboard Dacs are usually good enough. The Fiio E10 might be better technically but i don't know if you can easily tell the difference. If you are using headphones >32 omhs and <150, THEN the fiio e10 will be good for you. Also if your onboard sound card has too much noise then again an external dac like fiio will be beneficial.  You can notice many more differences bettween different amps than you do with different dacs. (but i won't talk about amps)

[ShearMe]

If you are using headphones >32 omhs and <150, THEN the fiio e10 will be good for you. 

 

1. Don't make broad impedance generalizations. 
2. I found the E10 to have enough volume for 250ohm Beyerdynamics, which are somewhat difficult to drive.

[theodoro]

 

1. Don't make broad impedance generalizations. 
2. I found the E10 to have enough volume for 250ohm Beyerdynamics, which are somewhat difficult to drive.

 

Just because you get enough volume( high Sound pressure level), doesn't always mean the headphones are driven properly. In this case you would get better sound from a more powerful amp. 

[Guest]

Just because you get enough volume( high Sound pressure level), doesn't always mean the headphones are driven properly. In this case you would get better sound from a more powerful amp. 

 

k. Thanks for letting us know you read head-fi.

[ShearMe]

Just because you get enough volume( high Sound pressure level), doesn't always mean the headphones are driven properly. In this case you would get better sound from a more powerful amp.

 

Oh, how cliche. Look, I can do it too!

Just because you have a "more powerful amp" doesn't always mean the headphones are driven properly.

[theodoro]

 

Oh, how cliche. Look, I can do it too!

Just because you have a "more powerful amp" doesn't always mean the headphones are driven properly.

Well, i guess you are right about that. Usually though,  the more powerful amps are better if you have high impedance headphones. It's just physics...

[theodoro]

k. Thanks for letting us know you read head-fi.

I am trying to help here :\  I read the posts on Head-Fi but i noticed this difference also by myself. I have a pair of DT990 Pros (250omhs) and a pair of sennheiser HD600 (300omhs). From the specs you can tell that the sennheisers need better amplification but they can actually produce higher volume than the Beyerdynamics. 

[creatip123]

Onboard Dacs are usually good enough. The Fiio E10 might be better technically but i don't know if you can easily tell the difference. If you are using headphones >32 omhs and <150, THEN the fiio e10 will be good for you. Also if your onboard sound card has too much noise then again an external dac like fiio will be beneficial.  You can notice many more differences bettween different amps than you do with different dacs. (but i won't talk about amps)

 

I'd be VERY surprised if the E10 could drive the Hifiman HE-6, a 50 ohms headphone, properly to its normal listening volume.

 

Impedance is not the only factor, the other is sensitivity, which HE-6 got a very low rating, that's why it's well known as one of the hardest to drive headphone in the market. 

 

My cheap 64 ohms Clarion reacts so much more to volume changes than my 32 ohms AD700, or my 35 ohms HE-400, because the Clarion's sensitivity is 107dB/mW, while the AD700 is 98dB/mW, and the HE-400 is 92.5dB/mW

[Guest]

I am trying to help here :\  I read the posts on Head-Fi but i noticed this difference also by myself. I have a pair of DT990 Pros (250omhs) and a pair of sennheiser HD600 (300omhs). From the specs you can tell that the sennheisers need better amplification but they can actually produce higher volume than the Beyerdynamics. 

 

What? There is no such thing as "better" amplification. Either an amp produces enough power or it doesn't.