Rigs for Folding@Home

[Bob_The_Builder]

is this a good idea for folding at home? IK its not nvidia but its not too expensive and looks like it would give decent PPD, I just don't know if F@H will run on it even though the seller claims it runs ubuntu.

https://pcserverandparts.com/used-asrock-amd-crypto-mining-rig-4u12g-12x-amd-bc-250-16gb-gddr6-playstation-5-apu-4u12g-bc-250/

If this isn't a good idea what is for the most PPD disregarding energy costs? Anything else cheap that can perform well?

[da na]

Do be aware that that's twelve separate computers, it's not just a rack with a ton of GPUs in it. That's 12 APUs that don't talk to each other, you'd have to independently install Windows on each one and connect each module to Ethernet.

You won't get a ton of PPD on AMD but if you're up for dealing with 12 computers in a loud, hot, heavy box, it'd suffice. 

Also be aware you'll need to buy twelve SSDs, machine doesn't seem to include any storage and 12 SSDs is already an extra $150+

[Bob_The_Builder]

Apparently windows doesn't work on them because they don't support Vulkan (what are you doing AMD). I was planning to use ubuntu but this video is steering me away from that. He was tryna play games tho, I just need the performance.

The hot heavy loud thing isn't an issue it will more likey then not live in the basement.

Just saying if this isn't good idea, I am open to some other ebay shenanigans if the result is worth it but most of the thinks I see rn are all without the GPU.

 

[da na]

9 minutes ago, Bob_The_Builder said:

Apparently windows doesn't work on them because they don't support Vulkan (what are you doing AMD). I was planning to use ubuntu but this video is steering me away from that. He was tryna play games tho, I just need the performance.

The hot heavy loud thing isn't an issue it will more likey then not live in the basement.

 i

This AMD mini PC kit is likely made out of b0rked PS5 chips | PC Gamer

I don't see why Windows wouldn't run on 'em. It's just a Ryzen with phat integrated graphics. The real problem might be drivers...

Also Windows does not require Vulkan support to run so that's certainly not the problem

[IkeaGnome]

2 minutes ago, da na said:

Do be aware that that's twelve separate computers, it's not just a rack with a ton of GPUs in it. That's 12 APUs that don't talk to each other, you'd have to independently install Windows on each one and connect each module to Ethernet.

Each one would run Windows, and F@H since they're all x86/64 compatible. You won't get a ton of PPD on AMD but if you're up for dealing with 12 computers in a loud, hot, heavy box, it'd suffice.

Those BC-250 aren't even normal AMD Gpus. They're PS5 APUs which means it might not even be capable of F@H. @LAR_Systems might know more if they can do F@H or not. They're SOCs that weren't good enough for the PS5 so they were turned into mining cards. They came in 8GB and 16GB variants. The ones OP is looking at are 16gb.

 

11 minutes ago, Bob_The_Builder said:

If this isn't a good idea what is for the most PPD disregarding energy costs? Anything else cheap that can perform well?

*IF* these can run F@H you're much better off getting a single 4070 for ~8m PPD. A single 4070 won't come anywhere near needing a 2400W power supply..

[BiotechBen]

If electricity is free, and you want a cool space heater, and want to do something with the electricity you use, sure, why not?

[Bob_The_Builder]

3 minutes ago, da na said:

This AMD mini PC kit is likely made out of b0rked PS5 chips | PC Gamer

I don't see why Windows wouldn't run on 'em. It's just a Ryzen. The real problem might be drivers...

Also Windows does not require Vulkan support to run so that's certainly not the problem

OK thanks

2 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

Those BC-250 aren't even normal AMD Gpus. They're PS5 APUs which means it might not even be capable of F@H. @LAR_Systems might know more if they can do F@H or not. They're SOCs that weren't good enough for the PS5 so they were turned into mining cards. They came in 8GB and 16GB variants. The ones OP is looking at are 16gb.

 

*IF* these can run F@H you're much better off getting a single 4070 for ~8m PPD. A single 4070 won't come anywhere near needing a 2400W power supply..

anything that could beat any of the new consumer cards in terms of value or all the things on ebay really not worth it? Also the fans on that thing consume like 200W at 24000 RPM

2 minutes ago, BiotechBen said:

If electricity is free, and you want a cool space heater, and want to do something with the electricity you use, sure, why not?

not exactly free, I just don't pay for it

[da na]

3 minutes ago, BiotechBen said:

If electricity is free, and you want a cool space heater, and want to do something with the electricity you use, sure, why not?

The electricity bill could surpass the machine's cost within the first 1-2 months of use if you're running it 24/7

[da na]

2 minutes ago, Bob_The_Builder said:

not exactly free, I just don't pay for it

Your parents won't be very happy with you.

 

2 minutes ago, Bob_The_Builder said:

anything that could beat any of the new consumer cards in terms of value or all the things on ebay really not worth it? Also the fans on that thing consume like 200W at 24000 RPM

No. Nvidia's new server accelerators will run you $40,000 and the older ones that go for like 80 bucks are on par with GTX 1080s and such, but not a 4070 or et cetera.

[Bob_The_Builder]

Just now, da na said:

Your parents won't be very happy with you.

yeah I can imagine

Just now, da na said:

No. Nvidia's new server accelerators will run you $40,000 and the older ones that go for like 80 bucks are on par with GTX 1080s and such, but not a 4070 or et cetera.

So just get a consumer card?

[IkeaGnome]

1 minute ago, Bob_The_Builder said:

anything that could beat any of the new consumer cards in terms of value or all the things on ebay really not worth it?

For F@H, not really.

Nvidia GPU Folding@Home PPD Rank Database (lar.systems)

Aida did wonders for performance per watt and performance per dollar for F@H. 

1 minute ago, Bob_The_Builder said:

not exactly free, I just don't pay for it

If we assume the machine will *only* top out at 2KW instead of the 2400W the power supplies are capable of, and take in to account the average cost of electricity in the States, and you running them 24/7, then @da na is close. it's actually 3 months.

[Bob_The_Builder]

Thanks, ill look into smth else

maybe this? https://www.ebay.com/itm/226134366728?itmmeta=01HXFYNYSAD05WA2B0Y3DJVJAX&hash=item34a6a89a08:g:jRIAAOSwFPdmOkRp&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAAwBwk7em%2FkLw5PnWW7r%2FJz8leghHlOFaj7E8VSC8ulL%2BcH0tk9rEYLT0nLuioUAn13mQYN7DvRaKM4iJG0tf3oWMj%2Feu5wMeAMawTIc5068PMXEbH1ZeX9Wm9VMWsRG1di2LCuSK1t33Vf3YlfOz5z8rhKzNbPpc7HERbA8aSch0ExLH9kiOQCjzDL4%2BfJmOPJkhEGZ6b5ArTbZHpywMOk%2B8QT7hP1uLtzzT9YRVVCXTSpKY6Z8ygJxpY1gkNukjgNQ%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR97s1_7rYw 

forget this, 250 dollar shipping

can these mining rigs be converted into F@H things

[da na]

4 minutes ago, Bob_The_Builder said:

yeah I can imagine

So just get a consumer card?

Just get a new consumer card. Can't beat em in terms of CUDA cores for the price.

 

[da na]

2 minutes ago, Bob_The_Builder said:

Thanks, ill look into smth else

maybe this? https://www.ebay.com/itm/226134366728?itmmeta=01HXFYNYSAD05WA2B0Y3DJVJAX&hash=item34a6a89a08:g:jRIAAOSwFPdmOkRp&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAAwBwk7em%2FkLw5PnWW7r%2FJz8leghHlOFaj7E8VSC8ulL%2BcH0tk9rEYLT0nLuioUAn13mQYN7DvRaKM4iJG0tf3oWMj%2Feu5wMeAMawTIc5068PMXEbH1ZeX9Wm9VMWsRG1di2LCuSK1t33Vf3YlfOz5z8rhKzNbPpc7HERbA8aSch0ExLH9kiOQCjzDL4%2BfJmOPJkhEGZ6b5ArTbZHpywMOk%2B8QT7hP1uLtzzT9YRVVCXTSpKY6Z8ygJxpY1gkNukjgNQ%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR97s1_7rYw

 

can these mining rigs be converted into F@H things

Any reason you're wanting to buy so many graphics cards? Have you asked whoever is paying for your power if they'd be okay with turning $160 a month into heat?

[Bob_The_Builder]

2 minutes ago, da na said:

Any reason you're wanting to buy so many graphics cards? Have you asked whoever is paying for your power if they'd be okay with turning $160 a month into heat?

Just want to do AI deep learning stuff with linux and then F@H on the side. Most of the time it will actually be used for me and the rest of the time can be used for helping the world.

[IkeaGnome]

2 minutes ago, Bob_The_Builder said:

Thanks, ill look into smth else

maybe this? https://www.ebay.com/itm/226134366728?itmmeta=01HXFYNYSAD05WA2B0Y3DJVJAX&hash=item34a6a89a08:g:jRIAAOSwFPdmOkRp&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAAwBwk7em%2FkLw5PnWW7r%2FJz8leghHlOFaj7E8VSC8ulL%2BcH0tk9rEYLT0nLuioUAn13mQYN7DvRaKM4iJG0tf3oWMj%2Feu5wMeAMawTIc5068PMXEbH1ZeX9Wm9VMWsRG1di2LCuSK1t33Vf3YlfOz5z8rhKzNbPpc7HERbA8aSch0ExLH9kiOQCjzDL4%2BfJmOPJkhEGZ6b5ArTbZHpywMOk%2B8QT7hP1uLtzzT9YRVVCXTSpKY6Z8ygJxpY1gkNukjgNQ%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR97s1_7rYw

 

can these mining rigs be converted into F@H things

Yes however, those are going to be running at PCIE x1. Even a 1660S will have bandwidth issues and run a bit slower. 

A single 1660S will get you ~1.3m PPD under the best circumstances. These will be a lot lower. Even a 1080 on x1 was running closer to 800k ppd for me than the 1.4m PPD it should get.

GeForce GTX 1660 SUPER Folding@Home PPD Averages, Power Consumption & Research Projects (lar.systems)

1 1660s in that machine would be about 800k ppd for $0.30 per day in electricity.

800k PPD x 8 (number of GPUs) is 6.4m PPD. 

$0.30 in electricity x 8 is $2.40 per day.

All for the entry cost of $1300.

 

1 4070 Super is $0.53 per day for 12.4m PPD. For ~$600-$700 depending on which model you get.

[Bob_The_Builder]

2 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

Yes however, those are going to be running at PCIE x1. Even a 1660S will have bandwidth issues and run a bit slower. 

A single 1660S will get you ~1.3m PPD under the best circumstances. These will be a lot lower. Even a 1080 on x1 was running closer to 800k ppd for me than the 1.4m PPD it should get.

GeForce GTX 1660 SUPER Folding@Home PPD Averages, Power Consumption & Research Projects (lar.systems)

1 1660s in that machine would be about 800k ppd for $0.30 per day in electricity.

800k PPD x 8 (number of GPUs) is 6.4m PPD. 

$0.30 in electricity x 8 is $2.40 per day.

All for the entry cost of $1300.

 

1 4070 Super is $0.53 per day for 12.4m PPD. For ~$600-$700 depending on which model you get.

so yeah dont screw around with ebay and get a 40 series card (probably when 50 series drops) Thank you guys so much

[IkeaGnome]

Just now, Bob_The_Builder said:

so yeah dont screw around with ebay and get a 40 series card (probably when 50 series drops) Thank you guys so much

You can screw around with eBay though.

You seem to want to prioritize AI deep learning. Does the program you want to use benefit more from more Vram, or just more pure GPU power?

[GOTSpectrum]

1 minute ago, Bob_The_Builder said:

so yeah dont screw around with ebay and get a 40 series card (probably when 50 series drops) Thank you guys so much

Yeah, for us who run our hardware 100% of the time are much more interested in efficiency. Because these days power costs make up a significant part of TCO these days. 

 

I don't even run my 20 series cards anymore because it's just not worth it for the power

[IkeaGnome]

For reference, you can get used 4060 ti 16gb cards on Ebay for $400 all day long.

2 of those and you're at $800 for 32GB vram.

ASUS STRIX X299-E GAMING ATX Motherboard With I/O Shield & Intel Core i7 CPU 4.3 889349773093 | eBay

Add something like this and you're ~$1000 in.

That motherboard will run both cards at x8 so you don't have to worry about bandwidth. Add a cooler, a drive and some ram. 

Find a case and you're damn near the $1300 that the 8 1660s mining rig was selling for.

If you want a lower cost of entry, drop a 4060ti for now and add a second later. 

[Bob_The_Builder]

16 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

You can screw around with eBay though.

You seem to want to prioritize AI deep learning. Does the program you want to use benefit more from more Vram, or just more pure GPU power?

i use the resnet family of programs, i genuinely don't know what they use

11 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

For reference, you can get used 4060 ti 16gb cards on Ebay for $400 all day long.

2 of those and you're at $800 for 32GB vram.

ASUS STRIX X299-E GAMING ATX Motherboard With I/O Shield & Intel Core i7 CPU 4.3 889349773093 | eBay

Add something like this and you're ~$1000 in.

That motherboard will run both cards at x8 so you don't have to worry about bandwidth. Add a cooler, a drive and some ram. 

Find a case and you're damn near the $1300 that the 8 1660s mining rig was selling for.

If you want a lower cost of entry, drop a 4060ti for now and add a second later. 

i have the rest of the system i can use if i just get a GPU, before this i was doing my AI stuff on dedicated nvidia hardware but i want to expand into other branches of AI that nvidia doesn't have the power for. (Jetson AGX orin 64gb)

[BiotechBen]

As someone who runs/ran dual 1080s for F@H: they get about 2M PPD each (heavily dependent on WU allocation) and they are easily able to heat my leaky-ass uninsulated bedroom in winter for about the same or less than just running the heat.