Sadness for non-technical users.

[da na]

16 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

hack the desktop drivers as the laptop manufacturers never updated them. 

Dell was the worst with that. Their Quadro FX, GeForce 7000, and Radeon 1000 cards were last updated on Vista (XP in some cases) and have custom VBIOSes that the generic ATI/Nvidia drivers don't recognize. 

 

Back to the point of the thread, the fact I know this information is why I envy non-technical users that can actually use a disposable product as intended instead of insisting on dragging out the lifespan of 20-year-old stuff designed to last 1/5 that long Can't say I don't enjoy it though

[goatedpenguin]

35 minutes ago, WiscoMetro said:

I can't stand modern laptop keys(or increasingly desktop keyboards that are taking that form)

frfr the apple butterfly keyboard was total BS. Caused my fingers to get PTSD

[BoomerDutch]

Brother I'm already broken because of data collection. There are so many people who doesn't realise how much data has been collected.

 

It's like almost every company does this.

[goatedpenguin]

6 minutes ago, BoomerDutch said:

Brother I'm already broken because of data collection. There are so many people who doesn't realise how much data has been collected.

 

It's like almost every company does this.

yep it is unavoidable and the irony is the ppl who made that are also getting their data collected too from other sources. 

[Gat Pelsinger]

I don't know how in every post there is this one man who takes the thread to a completely different meaning and everybody starts talking about things quite irrelevant to the post. Well not that it is a bad thing but.

[Gat Pelsinger]

9 hours ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Windows takes 2-3 minutes to boot.

My older laptop had a hard drive before I upgraded it and with all my knowledge, I optimized Windows so much that it literally boot faster than my newer with a SSD (full boot because hybrid boot is broken for some reason).

[goatedpenguin]

5 hours ago, Gat Pelsinger said:

I don't know how in every post there is this one man who takes the thread to a completely different meaning and everybody starts talking about things quite irrelevant to the post. Well not that it is a bad thing but.

People are responding to points from YOUR post.  We aren't just gonna always quote you and your posts. Its a forum people reply to each other and OP.  

[Sauron]

18 hours ago, RONOTHAN## said:

Whether or not that's a good thing is up for debate. XMP isn't 100% reliable, and since a lot of the "Average Joes" that OP is talking about aren't going to want or even know how to troubleshoot a non-functional XMP and wondering why their system is just randomly blue screening, not having a message like that will likely save them quite a bit of customer service requests. 

...which leads into the point that there's generally a reason these things are they way they are. As you said, off-the-shelf components are intended to work with a variety of other parts and manufacturers would (understandably) rather stick to safe defaults than deal with a flood of "incompetent" customers complaining that their device didn't work out of the box, despite being advertised as compatible with the rest of their setup. I would wager most of these users also prefer this arrangement.

 

It's a bit like cars - most people use their car to commute and don't care that they could theoretically get 10% more hp by tweaking the fuel injector settings, with a slight chance of being left with a non functioning car in the process...

[sub68]

I miss this

[Mark Kaine]

On 4/4/2024 at 12:01 AM, Avocado Diaboli said:

 

Some people don't have the time or interest in maintaining their PCs. They expect them to just work and if something doesn't, they hand it of to a friend who knows what they're doing or to an expert. Same thing with cars. If you can't be bothered to deal with maintenance and repairs yourself, you hand it off to someone else or just deal with the fact that it'll eventually deteriorate to the point of not being usable anymore. You have to realize that not everything you are interested in is as interesting to everybody else. People aren't a hivemind. For every person you find who is enthusiastic about the same thing as you, you'll find a dozen who couldn't care less. So why bother lamenting other people's inabilities to care for something? They don't care. Why should you? Use your time better than that.

i agree,  why should most people even have time to fix their computers or cars etc, tbh that's typically what people do who cant afford a professional. 

 

"oh i know tech" 

 

yeah, or maybe you're just a cheapskate.

 

 

 

[starsmine]

Honestly, a lot of the rants in OP should be a moment to self reflect on your own biases, and should help you adjust how you do help people or find ways to save money. 

On 4/3/2024 at 3:45 PM, Gat Pelsinger said:

And when they do go to an OEM, this is first checklist at the hands of the seller - 

1) Single channel RAM only. Dual channel is illegal.

2) Mathematical system power usage - 300 W. PSU rating - 300 W. That too fire hazardous.

3) 80mm cooling fan to precisely run the CPU at 97 C. See, it ain't thermal throttling!

4) Take away all BIOS controls for a better and simpler experience for the user.

5) GEN 5 NVME SSD without cache for cost cutting.

1) You are right, that is messed up from OEMs
2) its literally not a fire hazard, and almost* never has been. 
3) if its not throttling back clocks or power it IS fine
4) I agree that is frustrating, but a lot of those bios controls are unnecessary (until you need it to fix its

Like in terms of thermal compound, yes a PC requires maintenance, but in terms of how a CPU functions, running 60 at load or 70 at load or 80 at load, or 90 at load. Its literally all the same. its only an issue if and ONLY if its throttling. Otherwise, neither lifespan nor performance is being impacted.

In terms of XMP
If the PC is advertised at those XMP speeds, yes they need to be turned on from factory, but otherwise just assume its running a JDEC stock speed. 

But yes, friends dont let friends buy Dell Desktops with all their propraitary bullshit making them unfixable.

[Mark Kaine]

5 hours ago, sub68 said:

I miss this

why nobody made this an app for win10/11 is beyond me...

[da na]

5 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

why nobody made this an app for win10/11 is beyond me...

CPU.Gadget.rar

There's the CPU gadget ripped from my Windows 7 computer.

Definitely did not expect it to be essentially a web app... thought it'd be an EXE

I doubt it would run right on Windows 10 though

[Mark Kaine]

1 hour ago, da na said:

CPU.Gadget.rar 160.37 kB · 1 download

There's the CPU gadget ripped from my Windows 7 computer.

Definitely did not expect it to be essentially a web app... thought it'd be an EXE

I doubt it would run right on Windows 10 though

well i found this... https://8gadgetpack.net/

 

looks promising but as always with such apps im a bit skeptical about security and stability. 

 

 

edit: VT says its good to go!

 

[undergroundbeef]

The average user has it better than it has ever been. In many cases computers are like toasters. They can get an iMac, plug it in, and use it for years without really thinking about it. If they don't notice a problem, is it really a problem? 

 

At work I moved from an Intel Mac to an M1 about a year ago. With the Intel Mac the fans would constantly spin up and I would know there was a runaway process I needed to go kill. With the M1, that has never happened. Just this week someone in the Mac support chat was mentioning something was using all his CPU. I went and looked at my system and a VS Code plug-in was using 99% CPU. It had probably been doing it for weeks. I never noticed. The system was running just fine, since it had enough cores where having 1 of them pegged didn't actually matter. The fans didn't even turn on because the new CPUs are so thermally efficient. This is fantastic for the average user. Periodically the system will reboot for software update, and any of those stuck process will get killed. Problem solved. If I looked at my Activity Monitor all the time at work I'd go nuts, as there are so many security agents running that I'm not allowed to remove. The best strategy is to ignore it, unless there is a noticeable issue (which I've had many in the past). Since the M1 that has meant I never open the Activity Monitor. It was a similar situation on Windows when I used it at work, I could feel when there was an issue, and then I'd go looking. I wouldn't proactively look for problems.

 

I have never replaced thermal paste on a computer in my life. I have built PCs and applied thermal paste, but once they were running, I pretty much left them alone. There is a difference between things that actually matter to a person, and turning computer maintenance into a hobby. You seem to be on the hobby end, which is fine, but you have to recognize that you're in a very small minority and most people don't care and don't need to care. I worked in a datacenter doing both hardware and software support for over a decade. We didn't do any of the stuff you're talking about. We monitored for failures and fixed things when they broke. Servers ran for a decade without anyone replacing thermal paste, and they did their job just fine. While I treat my own stuff with a lot of care, it's amazing how much abuse some of that stuff can take.

 

As far as support shops re-installing Windows.... assuming the client has backed up their data, that just makes things more efficient. I worked at the help desk doing tech support during college for the students and faculty on campus during the early 2000s, some of the worst times for viruses and malware. The average laptop coming into us had hundreds of viruses. Put a computer on a campus network for 5 minutes without anti-virus and it's trashed... add with kids using Kazaa and other such app, it was a mess. Various people in charge at the help desk didn't want us to default to re-installing Windows, but this was a cruel policy for a couple reasons. First, while we could run various scans and cleanups, there was not guarantee they'd get everything, as it's always a cat and mouse game. But more importantly, it was an issue of time. Clients had to wait with their computer while we worked one it. A reinstall takes what, an hour? Some of the virus scans would run for 10 hours, and they'd just be sitting there waiting and helpless. Even if they could drop it off, they would still be without their computer for a day (more likely several days) instead of just an hour or two. There were a few people I told to re-install Windows on their own, and wrote up instructions, so they could go home and do it, instead of sitting there all day waiting for various scans to finish, as it was obvious their system had a lot of issues. While hardware issues do exist, in that era it was 99% software issues and the re-install would eliminate most of those, and also gets ride of a lot of wild cards and red herrings when dealing with a system with an unknown past. While I'm not in favor of doing a re-install for an obvious hardware issue, I can understand why it's done in a lot of cases where the causes is unknown or not obvious. Not to mention, for big box stores that aren't going to have the most tech savvy employees, it makes training a lot easier. For someone to go the route of not doing a re-install, they have to know a lot more. I worked in a shop that didn't do them, so I've done in hundreds of times, but in many cases I felt really bad about wasting their time. It seemed like it was more about ego of the techs than efficiency for the customer.

 

Computers, and everything else, have gotten so good that things are often "good enough", even when they are running slow. I have gigabit internet at home. It was running slow... a speed test would only get be about 100-300mbps. But I couldn't really feel it being slow, so I couldn't be bothered to waste my time with it. Eventually my ISP noticed an issue in my area, which was actually coming from my house and impacting those around me. They clipped my cable coming into my house, put on a new end, and my speed jumped up. This was great for me, I got my issue fixed, and didn't have to spend any time on the phone fighting with tech support and being told my modem, router, and computer were the problem (when they weren't)... it was pre-existing wiring that was there when I moved in. I bought my own modem and router, instead of renting them from the ISP, so this is ALWAYS a problem when I call and it's always a fight. I just don't care to have the fight unless I can actually feel the issue. I used to be able to notice it years ago when speeds were slower and it would drop to 30mbps, but not so much these days. Did I spend some months paying for service I wasn't actually getting, yeah. I was aware, but getting that little extra wasn't going to change my life in any way. Now that I have it, everything is the same... so is it worth it for the average Joe to study up and care? I'd say probably not.

 

I think the biggest thing the average Joe can do to improve their tech life is learning how to spot fake pop-ups using scare tactics and various phishing attempts.. and general security practices (good passwords, don't share them, etc). This is one of the biggest dangers today and just requires a little attention to detail, rather than learning about hardware, bios, uefi, critical processes, what "normal" is, etc, etc, etc, etc... it's a very deep rabbit hole. While most people here may know a good deal about the tech rabbit hole, these other people probably have a lot of information about other things. Maybe the person is a car mechanic that I go to see when my car is being weird, because I know about computers, but I don't care at all about learning how to fix cars, I have 0 interest. If I could not have a car, that would be great. I'm thankful some people like working on cars and I use their services when needed, just like people who don't know about computers use the services of those who do care about them.

 

The best database admin I ever worked with was brilliant when it came to the databases, but when it came to general computing in Windows or hardware, she didn't know anything. She didn't even have her own personal computer; she just had the work laptop for years. She came to us when she needed computer help, and we went to her when we needed database help. That's how the world works. Everyone has their thing. But for those who don't know computers, it's becoming less of a thing, because we've spent the last 40 years making them easier and easier to use for the average person. Now people can focus on actually using the computers to do something useful and interesting, instead of simply maintaining them.

[Needfuldoer]

Doing everything the hard way just because it's more difficult or less convenient isn't "more advanced" or "more techie".

 

[Spindel]

Bahahaha OP is n00b most commenters are n00bs, plz just:

 

poke 649,0

 

[goatedpenguin]

5 hours ago, Spindel said:

Bahahaha OP is n00b most commenters are n00bs, plz just:

 

poke 649,0

 

OP has been asking questions like these for a while now, probably post farming or smth idk. These questions seem rather self-explanatory imho. 

[Poinkachu]

I feel sad for them if they want to learn but there's no one or media to learn from, or if they don't really have the means to do it.

 

If not, I don't feel sad for them.

 

After the 4th time reinstalling Windows for a friend, which I did in front of the PC owner every single time and still being asked to do it.

IDGAF, really.

edit :

At one point I did it slow enough while explaining what each pages says and whatever to him.

At one point I offered to guide him through phone too, he refused.

He was more willing to being unable to use his PC for a week to wait for me rather than learn how to click "Next" repeatedly.

He has master's degree btw.

 

That example is kinda a proof to me that some people simply don't care, and the pointlessness about teaching people who doesn't even have the slightest interest in it.

Edited April 8 by Poinkachu
Felt the need to add more details

[rikitikitavi]

On 4/3/2024 at 5:31 PM, Alex Atkin UK said:

I was young and knew nothing about laptops at the time.  I got it because I had my first job and foolishly wanted a laptop with a GeForce GPU - which was hardly worth it as the laptop variants were pretty junk back then.

Can relate. Was a hardcore gamer and wanted all my pcs to be 'ready', so the first laptop was also the last windows pc for me for a decade - a crap quality gaming Dell XPS + Win7 + 3 RMAs. The experience made so sour, I jumped the ship minutes after my first experience with the unibody era macs. Didn't even care that I lost the access to most games.

[Gat Pelsinger]

On 4/8/2024 at 7:52 PM, goatedpenguin said:

OP has been asking questions like these for a while now, probably post farming or smth idk. These questions seem rather self-explanatory imho. 

Please stop thinking that away. I don't get paid to make posts so that I am farming them. I know my posts aren't very meaningful or helpful (only a few) in anyway but I just purely wanted the community to discuss.

[goatedpenguin]

2 hours ago, Gat Pelsinger said:

Please stop thinking that away. I don't get paid to make posts so that I am farming them. I know my posts aren't very meaningful or helpful (only a few) in anyway but I just purely wanted the community to discuss.

I don't want to think that way but I think it is better to ask meaningful stuff even if its in the general discussion category.  

[wasab]

many things are worth researching before you buy and costly when scammed.

cars

house

financial products and securities

marriage(lol)

 

computer is not one of them. just buy something from a well-known brand and call it a day. you won't be scammed. 

[goatedpenguin]

11 hours ago, wasab said:

you won't be scammed. 

Apple enters the chat: