RX 560

[testcy]

How do the latest integrated graphics from Intel and AMD compare to the RX 560? Does any of these offer better performance?

[TatamiMatt]

43 minutes ago, testcy said:

How do the latest integrated graphics from Intel and AMD compare to the RX 560? Does any of these offer better performance?

Radeon 780M is a big upgrade from the 560, but i still wouldnt recommend it, id still go for a dGPU and good CPU, the cpus they come with are quite good, but all in all using the system RAM for VRAM and not having a dGPU is a hinderance to performance

 

That being said, its better than the 560 but slightly worse than the 570

 

The 760M is closer to on par with the 560 but is still a slight bit better

 

The 740M is worse

[venomtail]

Brand new very hard to find AMD's 780M integrated graphics is competitive, no need for GPU at low end but in general, even if VEGA 8-11 is way faster than Intel's offering, still beaten by a RX560.

[testcy]

1 minute ago, TatamiMatt said:

Radeon 780M is a big upgrade from the 560, but i still wouldnt recommend it, id still go for a dGPU and good CPU, the cpus they come with are quite good, but all in all using the system RAM for VRAM and not having a dGPU is a hinderance to performance

 

That being said, its better than the 560 but slightly worse than the 570

What dedicated GPU and CPU for about the same cost could perform better?

[jaslion]

8 minutes ago, testcy said:

What dedicated GPU and CPU for about the same cost could perform better?

A used rx580 and a 7600x

 

The 8600g sucks as it only has a x4 pcie link if you add a gpu making it a bad cpu to get

 

The 8700g is expensive but has the better 780m. However such an expensive cpu makes little sense to get when it only has that level of gpu performance.

 

So best of both worlds would be a 7600x + rx580 if you wish to stick on am5.

 

Else a intel i5 12400 is 120$ leaving you with A LOT of money to get a MUCH better used or new gpu

[TatamiMatt]

17 minutes ago, testcy said:

What dedicated GPU and CPU for about the same cost could perform better?

Its less so price more of availability i believe, for some reason its quite hard to find an 8700G, anything lower than that is a decent downgrade

 

This should be a bit of an upgrade for $20 more

 

PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/H7fZmr

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 7600 3.8 GHz 6-Core Processor  ($189.99 @ Walmart) 
Video Card: XFX GTR XXX Radeon RX 580 8 GB Video Card  ($139.99 @ Best Buy) 
Total: $329.98
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-03-25 04:59 EDT-0400

 

Worse CPU much better GPU

PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/KQ38F8

CPU: Intel Core i5-12400F 2.5 GHz 6-Core Processor  ($137.03 @ Amazon) 
Video Card: PowerColor Fighter Radeon RX 6600 8 GB Video Card  ($199.99 @ Amazon) 
Total: $337.02
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-03-25 05:05 EDT-0400

 

also these are new, you can get cheaper than the 8700G with @jaslion's buy used suggestion above

[testcy]

7 minutes ago, jaslion said:

A used rx580 and a 7600x

 

The 8600g sucks as it only has a x4 pcie link if you add a gpu making it a bad cpu to get

 

The 8700g is expensive but has the better 780m. However such an expensive cpu makes little sense to get when it only has that level of gpu performance.

 

So best of both worlds would be a 7600x + rx580 if you wish to stick on am5.

 

Else a intel i5 12400 is 120$ leaving you with A LOT of money to get a MUCH better used or new gpu

 

6 minutes ago, TatamiMatt said:

Its less so price more of availability i believe, for some reason its quite hard to find an 8700G, anything lower than that is a decent downgrade

 

This should be a bit of an upgrade for $20 more

 

PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/H7fZmr

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 7600 3.8 GHz 6-Core Processor  ($189.99 @ Walmart) 
Video Card: XFX GTR XXX Radeon RX 580 8 GB Video Card  ($139.99 @ Best Buy) 
Total: $329.98
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-03-25 04:59 EDT-0400

 

also these are new, you can get cheaper than the 8700G with @jaslion's buy used suggestion above

Is there a dedicated GPU with the price more or less and performance of the rx580 but with pcie4?

[TatamiMatt]

Just now, testcy said:

 

Is there a dedicated GPU with the price more or less and performance of the rx580 but with pcie4?

Not really, but if you go for the suggestion in my edit

 

Worse CPU much better GPU

PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/KQ38F8

CPU: Intel Core i5-12400F 2.5 GHz 6-Core Processor  ($137.03 @ Amazon) 
Video Card: PowerColor Fighter Radeon RX 6600 8 GB Video Card  ($199.99 @ Amazon) 
Total: $337.02
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-03-25 05:05 EDT-0400

 

It ends up the same price with a much higher tier GPU

[testcy]

12 minutes ago, TatamiMatt said:

Not really, but if you go for the suggestion in my edit

 

Worse CPU much better GPU

PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/KQ38F8

CPU: Intel Core i5-12400F 2.5 GHz 6-Core Processor  ($137.03 @ Amazon) 
Video Card: PowerColor Fighter Radeon RX 6600 8 GB Video Card  ($199.99 @ Amazon) 
Total: $337.02
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-03-25 05:05 EDT-0400

 

It ends up the same price with a much higher tier GPU

Aren't i5-12400 & i5-12400F basically the same apart from integrated graphics? Worse CPUs would be i3-12100 & i3-12100F but maybe still not that bad?

[TatamiMatt]

4 minutes ago, testcy said:

Aren't i5-12400 & i5-12400F basically the same apart from integrated graphics? Worse CPUs would be i3-12100 & i3-12100F but maybe still not that bad?

For the first part, yes, the F is usually cheaper because of this though. 

 

12100 isnt horrible but id still opt for the 12400F as if you cheap out on CPU further and get an even better gpu, you have the chance of becoming CPU limited which is worse than being GPU limited

[jaslion]

52 minutes ago, testcy said:

 

Is there a dedicated GPU with the price more or less and performance of the rx580 but with pcie4?

Why the need for pcie 4.0?

 

Pcie is backwards and forwards compatible.

 

Pcie has no impact on performance as long as the bandwith the card asks for is saturated. That and moa tof the time you can run a lot below spec and also notice no performance loss.

[jaslion]

37 minutes ago, testcy said:

Aren't i5-12400 & i5-12400F basically the same apart from integrated graphics? Worse CPUs would be i3-12100 & i3-12100F but maybe still not that bad?

I would not get a 12100. The CURRENR minimum for gaming is 8 threads and the i3 has that but that excludes things like discord, chrome,... runningin the background.

 

With recent games the i3 gets overwhellmed when you're also calling or have a site open and such in the background.

 

For the small price just the 12400 is a MASSIVE difference in usability.

 

Also thats the current min spec. The current consoles have fully taken over and we are seeing cpu spec creep again now.

[testcy]

54 minutes ago, jaslion said:

Why the need for pcie 4.0?

 

Pcie is backwards and forwards compatible.

 

Pcie has no impact on performance as long as the bandwith the card asks for is saturated. That and moa tof the time you can run a lot below spec and also notice no performance loss.

I was asking about a dedicated GPU that needs pcie4 meaning it is faster that pcie3.

[TatamiMatt]

16 minutes ago, testcy said:

I was asking about a dedicated GPU that needs pcie4 meaning it is faster that pcie3.

Thats what Jaslion was referring to also

 

PCIe gen is bandwidth based not speed based, kind of.

 

It doesnt matter if the PCIe3 is saturated to where it needs to be vs gen4, if gen 3 is 70% full, gen 4 will be 35% full, and wont provide any benefits

[testcy]

14 minutes ago, TatamiMatt said:

Thats what Jaslion was referring to also

 

PCIe gen is bandwidth based not speed based, kind of.

 

It doesnt matter if the PCIe3 is saturated to where it needs to be vs gen4, if gen 3 is 70% full, gen 4 will be 35% full, and wont provide any benefits

Don't more bandwidth mean more speed and need for pcie4 more bandwidth than pci3?

[TatamiMatt]

1 minute ago, testcy said:

Don't more bandwidth mean more speed?

if it needs it yes, if it doesnt no, and generally it wont need it

 

To give an example, if you have 1Gb internet and youre using a 2.5Gb ethernet cable, upgrading to a 10Gb ethernet cable wont give you faster internet speeds

[jaslion]

35 minutes ago, testcy said:

I was asking about a dedicated GPU that needs pcie4 meaning it is faster that pcie3.

It is faster. But if it's not needed it's not needed.

 

A rx580 isn't held back by a pcie 3.0 link.

 

Pcie isn't something that gives you less or more performance. You just have to see it as a slot you plug your device in. Can the slot operate at the requested link speed? If yes good full performance possible. If not potential lower performance but not always.

 

9 minutes ago, testcy said:

Don't more bandwidth mean more speed and need for pcie4 more bandwidth than pci3?

Only if needed.

 

Say you are on a road that you are allowed to go 500km/h but your car can only do 230km/h you aren't held back at all. Your car is going full speed but things can still go way faster if you get something faster.

 

A good comparison in pc hardware would be a 1080ti vs a rtx 3060. A 1080ti is a pcie 3.0 device but still easily 30% faster than a 3060. A 3060 on 3.0 or 4.0 performs exactly the same.

 

The first card to show SOMEWHAT of a performance difference on 3.0 vs 4.0 x16 links is a 4090 but that was only 3% so technically still margin of error.

 

Basically don't worry about pcie. There are only a handful of cards that do need 4.0 but they are oddities and not cards you should really buy ever (rx 6400 or rx 6500xt) or first gen products (intel arc).

 

So tldr just get a rx 580 or better used or new card with your build.

 

Another good option would be a used NON BLOWER STYLE rx5700xt it's about 20% faster than a rx6600 that costs 190$ average but the 5700xt can be had for 120$.

 

Also plenty other options available.

 

But we would need to know other specs too like what psu you have to make sure we stay in limit there.

[testcy]

7 hours ago, TatamiMatt said:

f it needs it yes, if it doesnt no, and generally it wont need it

7 hours ago, jaslion said:

But we would need to know other specs too like what psu you have to make sure we stay in limit there.

If not really into gaming, do you think that integrated graphics from either AMD or Intel would be sufficient or could they slow down Windows at high resolution and refresh rate? Is buying a dedicated graphics card still justified?

[jaslion]

2 hours ago, testcy said:

If not really into gaming, do you think that integrated graphics from either AMD or Intel would be sufficient or could they slow down Windows at high resolution and refresh rate? Is buying a dedicated graphics card still justified?

If you are not gaming then just get a i5 12400 or ryzen 7600x and call it a day. They both have perfectly fine general use igpu's.

[testcy]

On 3/25/2024 at 7:15 PM, jaslion said:

If you are not gaming then just get a i5 12400 or ryzen 7600x and call it a day. They both have perfectly fine general use igpu's.

Are these able to handle 4K resolution at high refresh rates and 4K video playback?

[jaslion]

4 minutes ago, testcy said:

Are these able to handle 4K resolution at high refresh rates and 4K video playback?

As in have a high refresh rate output? Yes. They both do hdmi 2.1 a d dp 1.4a so anything within the limits of those specs works.

 

 

4k video on these is EASY. We got that nailed down on igpu's like 10 years ago.

 

 

[testcy]

2 minutes ago, jaslion said:

As in have a high refresh rate output? Yes. They both do hdmi 2.1 a d dp 1.4a so anything within the limits of those specs works.

 

 

4k video on these is EASY. We got that nailed down on igpu's like 10 years ago.

 

 

And what are the limits of those specs? 10 years ago 4K was supported only at 30Hz which was almost unusable.

[jaslion]

2 minutes ago, testcy said:

And what are the limits of those specs? 10 years ago 4K was supported only at 30Hz which was almost unusable.

You could just look them up

 1.4 is 4k 144hz or higher depending on what compression you want to use

 

2.1 is just 4k 120hz

 

[testcy]

3 hours ago, jaslion said:

You could just look them up

 1.4 is 4k 144hz or higher depending on what compression you want to use

 

2.1 is just 4k 120hz

 

I already did and for i5-12400 found

1.4 7680x4320 60Hz

2.1 4096x2160 60Hz

but not the refresh rates at 4K.

[TatamiMatt]

7 hours ago, testcy said:

I already did and for i5-12400 found

1.4 7680x4320 60Hz

2.1 4096x2160 60Hz

but not the refresh rates at 4K.

4096x2160 is 4K and is running at 60Hz

 

7680x4320 is 8K and is also running at 60Hz, so you can pretty safely assume itll do 4K 60Hz and possibly 120Hz