Stop Calling these “Chromebooks”

[TheLANguy]

I wish Linus brought up how appealing to schools is a proven method to grow adoption of a platform. Apple giving Macs to US schools at a discount made most of a generation prefer Apple. As I have said on this forum before, Chrome OS needs a direct competitor for schools that is better than Windows S devices.

 

The thing that makes Chromebooks more “e-waste” than other cheap systems is how difficult it is to install any other OS, since they don't have a very good BIOS. That could be one of the reasons there are so many cheap Chromebooks and Chromeboxes are for sale on Ebay!

[Kisai]

3 minutes ago, TheLANguy said:

The thing that makes Chromebooks more “e-waste” than other cheap systems is how difficult it is to install any other OS, since they don't have a very good BIOS. That could be one of the reasons there are so many cheap Chromebooks and Chromeboxes are for sale on Ebay!

Because the hardware is meant to be e-waste. They are not built to be repaired or reused.

 

Hell, even businesses, ones that buy 100's of Dell laptops, throw them away after 3 years. Life left in them or not. It's only the staff that refuse to throw them away on schedule. It's kinda funny deploying 7th, 8th and 9th gen intel laptops to people who hung on to 2nd and third gen intel laptops and the only reason the new hardware is fast is because no laptop had SSD's until the 4th/5th gen SATA or 6th Gen NVMe's.

 

To some extent you don't really want over-engineered laptops deployed to children because they won't learn to take care of them. So you want stuff that can just be replaced cheaply rather than a forever-device.

 

But oh gawd, I can imagine the kids who are forced to use these miserable jokes of a laptop at school finding contempt for Linux because of how poor the experience is. At least Apple's experience was always a compelling one that was worth the money when the iMac's were not movable equipment. Laptops on the other hand, are fragile, and easily stolen or lost. So yeah, I can understand the desire for disposable hardware for education, but if you're going to spend more than $400 just buy a real computer and pass on these toys.

 

[MewMew]

Not to create a strawman and I'm not reading this entire thread for time's take but...

People can buy whatever crap they want. I mean, it doesn't matter what you tell some people - they'll just buy the crap they want anyway. We've all been like this at one point, especially a thing that we didn't know a large thing about and would not do now. It's a learning experience and some people just need to experience it to learn to not buy that product(s).

[BoomerDutch]

What i don't understand that they haven't solved problem for non Tech people.

 

If app freezes or doesn't work.

They smash the phone with their fingers and scream its not working.

They'll keep closing app and opening app till it works.

 

I've seen it, its great that ChromeOS exist but I doubt it would help at all.

 

Once they are frustrated they will drop it and forget it.

 

Oh poor developers.

 

 

Also doesn't surprise me if they make new laptop with smallest storage and everything goes to Google cloud like iSCSI drive for their laptop or smth stupid.

[JEskandari]

On 2/5/2024 at 7:03 PM, sub68 said:

That is one of the things when looking at operating systems for the education market I guaranteed if I gave some kids a ubuntou they would have no idea how to open the web browser.

You either have in the special needs, one that needs help all the time or kid that knows it fully.

honestly , my experience with kid tell me that you'll be surprised if you make a study of that.

give them an os like ubuntu , Nobara , or Manjaro and come back 1 hour later and you see they are playing cyberpunk on it

 

[sub68]

1 minute ago, JEskandari said:

honestly , my experience with kid tell me that you'll be surprised if you make a study of that.

give them an os like ubuntu , Nobara , or Manjaro and come back 1 hour later and you see they are playing cyberpunk on it

Depends on said kid I have seen special needs kids very good to very poor computer skills, not all special needs kids are smart some just need a little help, tbf most know how to run ipads so if the UI is basically a ipad most can figure it out.

[Skipple]

I think given the replies to this thread, I believe this is an indication that this was a good video, or at minimum one that spawned interesting conversation. @LinusTech - I hope this is encouraging to continue to produce video like this that interest you (as you said on the WAN show this week), as they clearly interest us. 

[smcoakley]

22 hours ago, Uttamattamakin said:

A unified Linux UI/UX would be great.  In fact I would be in favor of the open source community if not agreeing on a single DE at least agreeing on a single default behavior for the DE.    Like something as simple as agreeing to have three icons on one side of the screen at all times.  Application menu, Web Browser, email , File manager.   Any DE can be made  to do that.    Then finally ditch X11 for Wayland.  This way new users will always see these icons in roughly that order from top to bottom no matter what. 

I agree that the user choice is both a pro and a con for Linux, but at least for me, that's one of the reasons I prefer it. When GNOME 3 was released back in the day, it was intentionally very different from how UIs had historically been arranged, and a lot of people didn't like it for that reason. But they did it because they wanted to innovate, try something new, try pushing the UI discipline forward. Some of the new things they tried didn't work... but some of them did.

 

I've been using GNOME since 3 for quite a while, because personally the "different" way that it works melds much more closely to how my brain already worked. It was more intuitive to me than any other desktop environment I had used prior. I don't expect or demand anyone else use it though -- if the KDE style makes more sense to you, then use that. But that's only possible because of the diverse user choice in the Linux ecosystem that also means there's not commonality between distros.

 

The X11 -> Wayland transition is happening, albeit slowly.

[Uttamattamakin]

1 hour ago, smcoakley said:

I've been using GNOME since 3 for quite a while, because personally the "different" way that it works melds much more closely to how my brain already worked. It was more intuitive to me than any other desktop environment I had used prior. I don't expect or demand anyone else use it though -- if the KDE style makes more sense to you, then use that. But that's only possible because of the diverse user choice in the Linux ecosystem that also means there's not commonality between distros.

I just wish we could agree on some universal defaults for what KDE and Gnome would look like at first ... but allow users to customize from there.   So we could at least tell a new user move your mouse to the left, click this, click that, change that setting and you are good.   Instead of "Run Bash Sudo wget -- some darn url then run sudo apt install gcc make then run make install and reboot".   

 

I've used Gnome for a time before.  I think KDE really just got to me first.  It was the DE used in Caldera Open Linux way WAY back in the day and I was more or less a KDE person ever since.  I'd try the window managers of the time,  Lesstif, FVWM, etc.  Heck back then one could run a window manager and mix up aspects of KDE and Gnome into their own thing.  

Problem is most people aren't like that.  They want to know where the button is, and get muscle memory to push it.   Side or bottom or top of the screen. Choice... choice is confusing. 

Nice thing about Linux Desktops is you can reshape them to be what you want.  Make Gnome look like KDE or vice versa.  There is even a "Wubuntu" that themes Plasma to look like Windows 11.   

[Elijah Horner]

1 hour ago, Skipple said:

I think given the replies to this thread, I believe this is an indication that this was a good video, or at minimum one that spawned interesting conversation. @LinusTech - I hope this is encouraging to continue to produce video like this that interest you (as you said on the WAN show this week), as they clearly interest us. 

Its def a video that should be made and talked about and seeing everyone opinions both in comments and on here shows that people do not look at things objectively always and sometimes get it in their head "If something is bad now, its bad forever"

I know Linus has mentioned it before about how you can identify a Fan Boy/Girl over a product, its when they ignore a fact about the competition. Chromebooks are good laptops now, to the point where when I have a family member that I know is not computer savy, I tell them to buy a chromebook (Assuming they need a device and dont have anything else to use)

[GoStormPlays]

Conspiracy Theory: Microsoft broke their promise to make Windows 10 the last version of Windows to make the UI of Windows more familiar to Chromebook users.

[DaITguy]

haha, unlikely but clever. I remember having the iMac filled computer lab when I was in elementary school.

as a non-fan of Google, sad they're in such a position for market control down the line BUUT I'd argue that most of those kids are going to get chromebooks (lol) that are so thrashed and unusable that those kids will still be itching to get a grown up laptop once they're old enough.

[Asxrow]

On 2/4/2024 at 2:21 PM, JEskandari said:

I'm not from north America and I never had the misfortune of having a Chromebook it seems Chromebook is popular there in school and it seems it pushed by school according to Linus

a question , what prevent people to use a laptop like one of these

https://www.amazon.com/A315-24P-R7VH-Display-Quad-Core-Processor-Graphics/dp/B0BS4BP8FB/ref=sr_1_7?qid=1707073753&s=computers-intl-ship&sr=1-7

 

https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-3i-i3-1115G4-Processor-Platinum/dp/B0BV4G3XVN/ref=sr_1_46?qid=1707074144&s=computers-intl-ship&sr=1-46&th=1

 

except the price instead of Chromebooks, in school . is there a law to prevent it or is some required software that is only in chrome book or is there some feature which is not available in laptops?

 

Cheaper to buy in bulk maybe, I know you can buy chromebooks pre-enrolled into their organization so maybe that's why.

[jre84]

my 2 cents that nobody asked for.

 

I have been using desktops/laptops since 1990. desktops are great and laptops have their place. but what exactly do we do with them when we are done using them for work. gaming/music/videos/pictures. basically a cell phone ticks all the boxes hence why they are commonly used as a be all end all device. chromebooks do all that with efficiency and speed except the taking photos part. they are generally faster if you get something with a i3-i7 or ryzen 3 or better than a laptop with similar specs and much faster than the HDD desktops. you dont need to tweak you don't need a to do anything but turn them on and fly away with everything. as for the eco system I think its great things are streamlined. some games im guilty of playing like real racing 3 and modern combat are not without flaws but fun and I can't ask for more. Do I own a gaming laptop and 4 other high end laptops yes, do I own a chromebook that I use. no. I have one setup as a security camera and it just sits. but I cant help but see why people like chromebooks and give them merrit and kudos for what they are. media consumption devices and they do a damn good job at it. lets be honest, you dont need a desktop for 99 percent of all computing, list things that a normal person needs a desktop for and ill tell you a work around on a low power laptop or chromebook.

[Neo12242]

after this video it led me to a fascinating discussion with my son(17). We were pondering the percentage of children who haven't used Windows operating systems. My son estimated it has to be around 50%, primarily because most of his classes utilize Chromebooks, and at home, kids tend to use smartphones and tablets. In his school (1800 kids k9-12), exposure to a Windows PC is quite limited, typically restricted to specialized computer-based classes. For instance, his cybersecurity course employs virtual machines, which students access through their Chromebooks. I'm curious if there's any statistical data or studies available on this topic. Does anyone know where I might find statistics regarding the number of kids who haven't used Windows by the time they graduate?