How much better is 80+ gold than bronze?

[Tacitus]

Hey everyone,

 

The build I am planning is fairly budget conscious, I want to be able to save money where I can so I can get as good a GPU as I can afford. Herein lies the question - how much would you recommend a gold rated over bronze rated PSU, and why?

 

Thanks

 

Chris

[Anthony10]

Google it, there are some detailed graphs comparing efficiencies.

 

I would not spend the extra money on gold, I would only have it if it is an extra like on the RM silent series by corsair. In builds with 1000w+ efficiency can save you some money though.

[Enderman]

80+ Titanium is where its at nowadays.

[Oshino Shinobu]

If you're on a budget, just go for bronze. There's not a big enough benefit to go for gold unless you have the money for it. 

[Osmium]

80+ Titanium is where its at nowadays.

 

I hear 80+ Osmium is coming in a few years. That will be the shit.

[Enderman]

I hear 80+ Osmium is coming in a few years. That will be the shit.

Soon it will be just 80+ twenty = 100% efficient

[CJPowell27]

Soon it will be just 80+ twenty = 100% efficient

Scientifically impossible but that would be awesome

If you want a cheap gold rated PSU go for an EVGA 650G

[TheRetiredSlave]

I believe Anand (from Anandtech) did an in-depth study comparing 80+ Bronze to 80+ Platinum, and he found that the difference in power usage would only wind up being $20-30 over the lifetime of the PSU.. (I can't seem to find that article, but the real world difference is almost negligible) (Edit: Maybe this one? Nah, Found it right here.)

 

The only real thing that matters is that it's both made by a well-respected manufacturer and it's 80+ rated (whatever rating is fine).. 

[TheNinjaNextDor]

About 6% better from what I have seen.

[Enderman]

Scientifically impossible but that would be awesome

If you want a cheap gold rated PSU go for an EVGA 650G

How is it impossible? All you need is some superconductors and you get 100% efficient energy transfer, and no need for any cooling fan/ heatsink!

[Tacitus]

I believe Anand (from Anandtech) did an in-depth study comparing 80+ Bronze to 80+ Platinum, and he found that the difference in power usage would only wind up being $20-30 over the lifetime of the PSU.. (I can't seem to find that article, but the real world difference is almost negligible) (Edit: Maybe this one?)

 

The only real thing that matters is that it's both made by a well-respected manufacturer and it's 80+ rated (whatever rating is fine).. 

 

That is very minor, though I'm not sure how expensive electricity is here relatively speaking.

 

If (following from my other thread you posted on) I were to want to Crossfire, would it be better to have a better rated PSU just to make sure it can handle it fine? For instance, the EVGA Supernova NEX 750W Bronze PSU is £65 here, and the Gold rated equivalent is £80. It seems a fairly minor amount, but I could take the £15 and go buy like a curry and a few beers

[TheRetiredSlave]

That is very minor, though I'm not sure how expensive electricity is here relatively speaking.

 

If (following from my other thread you posted on) I were to want to Crossfire, would it be better to have a better rated PSU just to make sure it can handle it fine? For instance, the EVGA Supernova NEX 750W Bronze PSU is £65 here, and the Gold rated equivalent is £80. It seems a fairly minor amount, but I could take the £15 and go buy like a curry and a few beers

 

Not really. The wattage rating on the PSU is the max continuous power output. Two 750W PSUs will both be able to output the exact same 750 watts of power to the system, regardless of their efficiency rating.. The thing that efficiency affects is the amount of power it needs to draw from the wall in order to sustain the output.

 

 

For example, if you had a system that required 400 watts to run at max load and a PSU that was 80% efficient, the wattage pulled from the wall would be 500 watts. However, if you paired that same 400 watt system with an 85% efficient PSU, the power draw from the wall would be only 470 watts when the system is stressed to a maximum load.. 

 

If this random electricity bill calculator that I found on google is any accurate, the difference on my power bill (assuming 3 hours at max load per day, every day), the difference in yearly cost would be ~$2.. (the price difference of a ~700W system would be ~$3.50 per year)

Buy the beers.

 

 

Poking around on Guru3D, they did some power consumption tests with 290s on a system that had a 3960X. Total system power consumption with a single 290 was ~370W, and with two 290s was ~600W, with only the GPUs stressed. (for reference, power draw was measured at the wall)

[CJPowell27]

How is it impossible? All you need is some superconductors and you get 100% efficient energy transfer, and no need for any cooling fan/ heatsink!

I can answer this in two ways: friction and entropy. 

Conversions always create losses, typically in the form of heat, sonic waves, light, etc. Friction is the major source of the heat and other losses, but not the only source. These losses cannot be captured and used; so they are considered entropic energy (SE).

I could bust out some AP Physics equations to explain but you'd fall asleep  like I did lol

[WoodenMarker]

I recommend depending on the quality of the unit, how much power is need for the system, pricing, aesthetics and sometimes noise.

It's rating is generally not that useful other than as a search term to filter and find particular psus. 

[Tacitus]

Not really. The wattage rating on the PSU is the max continuous power output. Two 750W PSUs will both be able to output the exact same 750 watts of power to the system, regardless of their efficiency rating.. The thing that efficiency affects is the amount of power it needs to draw from the wall in order to sustain the output.

 

 

For example, if you had a system that required 400 watts to run at max load and a PSU that was 80% efficient, the wattage pulled from the wall would be 500 watts. However, if you paired that same 400 watt system with an 85% efficient PSU, the power draw from the wall would be only 470 watts when the system is stressed to a maximum load.. 

 

If this random electricity bill calculator that I found on google is any accurate, the difference on my power bill (assuming 3 hours at max load per day, every day), the difference in yearly cost would be ~$2.. (the price difference of a ~700W system would be ~$3.50 per year)

Buy the beers.

 

 

Poking around on Guru3D, they did some power consumption tests with 290s on a system that had a 3960X. Total system power consumption with a single 290 was ~370W, and with two 290s was ~600W, with only the GPUs stressed. (for reference, power draw was measured at the wall)

Looks like it's curry and beer

 

I recommend depending on the quality of the unit, how much power is need for the system, pricing, aesthetics and sometimes noise.

It's rating is generally not that useful other than as a search term to filter and find particular psus. 

 

Thanks for that, in the past few minutes I just bought the EVGA Supernova NEX 750W Bronze semi-modular PSU. I know you've been very helpful in the past in swaying my opinion, can you (or anyone else) say if that's a good PSU or not?

 

Bought from here: http://www.ebuyer.com/630115-evga-supernova-nex750b-semi-modular-bronze-power-supply-3-year-warranty-120-pb-0750-kr

[daemonowner]

Thanks for that, in the past few minutes I just bought the EVGA Supernova NEX 750W Bronze semi-modular PSU. I know you've been very helpful in the past in swaying my opinion, can you (or anyone else) say if that's a good PSU or not?

 

Bought from here: http://www.ebuyer.com/630115-evga-supernova-nex750b-semi-modular-bronze-power-supply-3-year-warranty-120-pb-0750-kr

 

@quan289 Go nuts.

 

What are the benefits of higher efficiencies (and therefore better 80Plus ratings)? I'm willing to concede that you won't save very much money directly on your power bill. The benefits are mostly indirect.

As you improve the build quality and component selection you are able to make more efficient units. Efficiency can be a sort of indirect measure of the quality of the selected components and the effort put into designing and producing the unit. How many $20 chinese 80Plus Platinum (or 80Plus anything) units are there? Then consider the ridiculous lengths you have to go to in order to design and produce the 80Plus Titanium AX1500i. The efficiency correlates with the build quality.

As you improve the efficiency of a unit, the unit will need to draw less power from the wall to supply the Wattage it's rated for. This is where the savings come from, but what happens to the power that is drawn but not used due to inefficiency? It's mostly lost as heat. This may also be negligible the same as the electricity bill, I don't know. But it's something.

[WoodenMarker]

Thanks for that, in the past few minutes I just bought the EVGA Supernova NEX 750W Bronze semi-modular PSU. I know you've been very helpful in the past in swaying my opinion, can you (or anyone else) say if that's a good PSU or not?

Bought from here: http://www.ebuyer.com/630115-evga-supernova-nex750b-semi-modular-bronze-power-supply-3-year-warranty-120-pb-0750-kr

It's a bit better than Corsair's CX series but it isn't anything special. There are better similarly priced series I'd suggest like the XFX Pro series.

 

What are the benefits of higher efficiencies (and therefore better 80Plus ratings)?

Higher efficiency means the system will use less power and the unit will run cooler. 

[daemonowner]

@WoodenMarker lol now for once you didn't read my full post.

[WoodenMarker]

@WoodenMarker lol now for once you didn't read my full post.

I read it. I was half unsure about whether that was an actual question or a rhetorical one. I was leaning towards the former since you tagged quan.

[Tacitus]

It's a bit better than Corsair's CX series but it isn't anything special. There are better similarly priced series I'd suggest like the XFX Pro series.

 

Higher efficiency means the system will use less power and the unit will run cooler. 

 

Ah ok, well, I'm sure it'll do fine, the most similarly priced XFX 750W PSU here from a quick search would be about the same as the same gold series EVGA one, which I skimped on because of the cost

[daemonowner]

@WoodenMarker Ah ok, I was trying to explain the benefits beginning with a rhetorical question.

[Enderman]

I can answer this in two ways: friction and entropy. 

Conversions always create losses, typically in the form of heat, sonic waves, light, etc. Friction is the major source of the heat and other losses, but not the only source. These losses cannot be captured and used; so they are considered entropic energy (SE).

I could bust out some AP Physics equations to explain but you'd fall asleep  like I did lol

Superconductors have 0 friction (i think you mean electrical resistance) and it is (obviously not yet) theoretically possible to have a 100% efficient conversion. Like linus said, when CPUs are made from superconductors there will be 0 waste heat. We just need to figure out a way to make superconductors at room temperature that are affordable for consumers.

[CJPowell27]

Superconductors have 0 friction (i think you mean electrical resistance) and it is (obviously not yet) theoretically possible to have a 100% efficient conversion. Like linus said, when CPUs are made from superconductors there will be 0 waste heat. We just need to figure out a way to make superconductors at room temperature that are affordable for consumers.

It's not friction you need to worry about.  Technically speaking, heat is loss of efficiency because you're losing some of the original form of energy. Correct me if I'm wrong but it's near impossible to have 0 waste heat with electrical flow

[Enderman]

It's not friction you need to worry about.  Technically speaking, heat is loss of efficiency because you're losing some of the original form of energy. Correct me if I'm wrong but it's near impossible to have 0 waste heat with electrical flow

Superconductors create 0 waste heat with electrical flow. Thats why they are used in particle accelerators, to achieve about 100 billion MeV (mega electron volts). The problem is that they need to be at least -73*K and are huge and expensive. When this technology works at room temperature, small size, and cheap price then we will have 0 waste heat. This will come some time in the future, not any time soon