Phanteks Admits to Changing Product Page to Cover Up False & Misleading Advertising

[Poinkachu]

The way I see it :

 

In the video you said was taken allegedly before they changed the website, there is conflicting images about the lighting you assumed included.

It is shown in a pic where they promote the inbuilt GPU support. But not in the others, even in the particular pic supposedly to promote lighting.

And tbh, only in that 1 particular pic (GPU support) that the outer rim lighting is shown.

 

Which IMHO, should be a big "red flag" already if you are aiming for the outer rim lighting as well.

I quoted red flag because i meant it as a red flag for "Need further research whether or not there's an outer rim lighting inbuilt on the case" instead of "Trying to scam".

 

Any kind of seller usually want to emphasize a shit ton about things they think is a great boon to buyer. No matter how menial or actually a shit it is. Especially if the boon gonna cost a decent amount of money to buy separately.

If they don't, that's a red flag for further research.

 

If it's the manual, there's Scope of Delivery on Page 7. At the very least on the manuals I'm seeing on the case's web page, and manualslib. Albeit a much simpler version.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/3285968/Phanteks-Nv9.html?page=7#manual

Things not shown in the scope of delivery can be regarded as not included, or atleast need further research.

 

 

But, if you want to pursue this further, it's probably be best / better to reach out to like maybe GamersNexus since they're the one most often doing coverage of such things should they find the fault is on Phanteks. I wouldn't hold my breath for this particular case though.

 

And as a last word, an advice : Please do extensive research before buying expensive things. And even more so if there's even a bit of conflicting evidence(s).
 

9 hours ago, tkitch said:

-snip-

In his defense , the page he's referring to is the store page i think.

https://www.phanteks.store/products/pre-order-phanteks-nv9-showcase-full-tower-chassis-white

 

Just pointing out differences.

I have no idea whether he went straight to store url or not.

Although logically if he did read the manual before buying, he should be at the product page (the one you wayback-ed) since that's where I can find the link to the manual. Well..., aside from manualslib or other external sources that is.

 

Although I do agree yeah, it is an issue that could've been prevented by a bit of amount of research. Either by looking through product page or asking CS.

 

edit reason : Adding an opinion that I forgot to type.

Edited January 30 by Poinkachu

[RevGAM]

17 hours ago, DatScreamer said:

Why would I delete? I feel like people have a right to know when a company does something like this. And you just agreed with me it seems. Like this might be normal behaviour in the USA but in Canada no companies do these kinds of things. None that I have ever seen at least. Canadians that aren't expecting to get deceived and lied to by companies in America just like me, because they've never encountered a company that acts like this in their entire lives, they deserve to know.

 

Me telling my story here on a canadian-based forum is a public service. This is a review as well as a true story of their behaviour. Like I could've posted my original comment in the thread on their website as a review but everyone knows they would just delete it. Where else could I possibly review the product and their conduct? Here is the best place for that.

You've misunderstood. I want MY post deleted. Somehow, I double posted. 

 

As for misleading ads in Canada, don't you watch TV there? I've watched your ABC investigative reports about various types of business fraud, including false ads...

 

When did you research prior to buying it?

[tkitch]

44 minutes ago, RevGAM said:

When did you research prior to buying it?

If he didn't even look at the product page on the website?  There's not much hope of "research".

"OHHHH PRETTY SHINIES!  WANT IT!!!!" 

 

.

Also, OP:

 

You're getting something confused:  

 

If the web page EXPLICITLY STATED that you got the RGB crap and they changed it after you complained?  That's probably false advertising.

 

If it didn't mention the RGB as included, and they then change it to state that the RGB is an option accessory?  Then it's not false advertising.  That's someone going "Jesus Christ people are stupid, and we need to explicitly state that this doesn't include X, Y, and Z."

[tkitch]

On 1/26/2024 at 8:11 PM, DatScreamer said:

Theres the screen recording before and after (before is the last one and after is the first video)

 

 

This is where your argument dies and falls flat on its face.

Just because the RGB is shown in pretty pictures doesn't mean it's included.  

 

From your own video:

So, does this mean that a pile of ARGB Fans, a 240 or 360mm AIO, and a full PC are included?  No?
Then why the fuck do you get to single out the RGB stuff as being included?

 

Those are Phanteks Fans shown, so just because it's their product doesn't mean anything....

 

And again your own video:

 

nearly 300$ in ARGB Fans?  A super fancy ARGB Resevoir, plus all the hardline watercooling stuff?  Oh, you didn't expect that in the box?  Why not?  It's in the picture.

 

Pictures don't mean anything.  

 

You lost the argument, and it's not false advertising, you just didn't read, and now you're mad that the glowy bits cost more money. 

[RevGAM]

1 hour ago, tkitch said:

Also, OP:

 

You're getting something confused:  

 

If the web page EXPLICITLY STATED that you got the RGB crap and they changed it after you complained?  That's probably false advertising.

 

If it didn't mention the RGB as included, and they then change it to state that the RGB is an option accessory?  Then it's not false advertising.  That's someone going "Jesus Christ people are stupid, and we need to explicitly state that this doesn't include X, Y, and Z."

First paragraph, yes.  Second paragraph, not really because pictures are a representation of what's being bought. If they don't accurately represent the product, a disclaimer is important. 

[tkitch]

17 minutes ago, RevGAM said:

First paragraph, yes.  Second paragraph, not really because pictures are a representation of what's being bought. If they don't accurately represent the product, a disclaimer is important. 

yes and no.
The first pic they have is of an empty white box.  

Nobody expects the full PC or other peripherals in it, and anyone claiming that it was in a picture would be laughed off the forum.  

[RevGAM]

2 minutes ago, tkitch said:

yes and no.
The first pic they have is of an empty white box.  

Nobody expects the full PC or other peripherals in it, and anyone claiming that it was in a picture would be laughed off the forum.  

If the title clearly states it's the case for sale, then I agree. But I've seen plenty of vague or misleading listings, so I cannot discount the possibility of an honest misunderstanding. Everyone makes mistakes. 

[DatScreamer]

16 hours ago, tkitch said:

Sorry Bro, but unless you've been fighting Phanteks about this for 2 months?

It's easy to disprove your post here.

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20231216000030/https://www.phanteks.com/NV9.html

 

December 16th 2023 - their own site:

 

 

 

 

So, it seems like that stuff was on the site already.  Unless you're trying to say this was from before 12/16?  

 

16 hours ago, tkitch said:

Sorry Bro, but unless you've been fighting Phanteks about this for 2 months?

It's easy to disprove your post here.

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20231216000030/https://www.phanteks.com/NV9.html

 

December 16th 2023 - their own site:

 

 

 

 

So, it seems like that stuff was on the site already.  Unless you're trying to say this was from before 12/16?  

Did you even read the thread? What do you not understand about the fact that the product store page is the only representation of the product that matters since it is in and of itself a representation of the product. You can't try to claim that the product store page isn't false/misleading advertising because the website has different information on it or something. Go read the laws if you want to have an opinion about all this. And it looks like you're looking at the black version. That's not even the same colour, and they have different lighting.

[DatScreamer]

7 hours ago, RevGAM said:

You've misunderstood. I want MY post deleted. Somehow, I double posted. 

 

As for misleading ads in Canada, don't you watch TV there? I've watched your ABC investigative reports about various types of business fraud, including false ads...

 

When did you research prior to buying it?

No I don't watch cable TV and nobody I know does either. Why would we? They shouldn't be trusted.

[DatScreamer]

6 hours ago, tkitch said:

If he didn't even look at the product page on the website?  There's not much hope of "research".

"OHHHH PRETTY SHINIES!  WANT IT!!!!" 

 

.

Also, OP:

 

You're getting something confused:  

 

If the web page EXPLICITLY STATED that you got the RGB crap and they changed it after you complained?  That's probably false advertising.

 

If it didn't mention the RGB as included, and they then change it to state that the RGB is an option accessory?  Then it's not false advertising.  That's someone going "Jesus Christ people are stupid, and we need to explicitly state that this doesn't include X, Y, and Z."

It's false/misleading advertising as in a reference the the laws about those things in my country. And it's fundamentally false/misleading when they chose to use a word like the word "Around" but only mean an obscure definition of the word around (like the 5th to 7th most used definition rather than the 1st-2nd most used, etc) and in that case they need to clarify what they mean, instead of using idioms as descriptive words. Like that is fundamentally deceptive.

[DatScreamer]

6 hours ago, tkitch said:

 

This is where your argument dies and falls flat on its face.

Just because the RGB is shown in pretty pictures doesn't mean it's included.  

 

From your own video:

So, does this mean that a pile of ARGB Fans, a 240 or 360mm AIO, and a full PC are included?  No?
Then why the fuck do you get to single out the RGB stuff as being included?

 

Those are Phanteks Fans shown, so just because it's their product doesn't mean anything....

 

And again your own video:

 

nearly 300$ in ARGB Fans?  A super fancy ARGB Resevoir, plus all the hardline watercooling stuff?  Oh, you didn't expect that in the box?  Why not?  It's in the picture.

 

Pictures don't mean anything.  

 

You lost the argument, and it's not false advertising, you just didn't read, and now you're mad that the glowy bits cost more money. 

You've just proven that you're delusional because you can't see that theres a massive connection between the RGB in a "Showcase Case" (as it's advertised) and the case, considering the RGB is CUSTOM DESIGNED for the case. CUSTOM DESIGNED FOR THE WHITE CASE even. That makes it a part of the case, since it's included in the pictures. And no reasonable person would expect an entire computer to come with a case, but any reasonable person would expect the custom designed rgb that is in the case product photos to come with the case because it's advertised as a showcase case and the RGB is the one thing that makes it a showcase case in my opinion. That custom RGB. 

 

And you saying pictures mean nothing? What? Are you okay? Like how could you possibly even think that? That's just delusional. And why don't you go read some of the advertising laws in my country? 

[DatScreamer]

5 hours ago, RevGAM said:

First paragraph, yes.  Second paragraph, not really because pictures are a representation of what's being bought. If they don't accurately represent the product, a disclaimer is important. 

It is my opinion that they purposely designed the entire store page to be deceptive and misleading, which would make it false/misleading advertising as a reference to the laws abut false/misleading advertising in my country. Why would they use "Around" as an idiom?

[DatScreamer]

5 hours ago, tkitch said:

yes and no.
The first pic they have is of an empty white box.  

Nobody expects the full PC or other peripherals in it, and anyone claiming that it was in a picture would be laughed off the forum.  

Every single picture looks like it has the RGB strips in the case, it just looks like they're off because theres nothing to power them in that picture for example. Like what do they expect everyone to have perfect eyesight that they can tell what some obscure looking line is when its white on white on white background? Like theres no contrast to be able to see anything. That's exactly why the needed to have the "What's in the box" section, as well as to clarify the idiom of "around" that they used. And exactly, nobody expects a full pc to come with the case, but any reasonable person would expect the rgb that makes a showcase case a showcase case to come with the showcase case.

[DatScreamer]

5 hours ago, RevGAM said:

If the title clearly states it's the case for sale, then I agree. But I've seen plenty of vague or misleading listings, so I cannot discount the possibility of an honest misunderstanding. Everyone makes mistakes. 

It's not even about an honest misunderstanding imo when they choose to use the word 'around' as an idiom, and don't put anything on the product store page to clarify that the word 'around' is being used as an idiom.

[tkitch]

4 minutes ago, DatScreamer said:

Every single picture looks like it has the RGB strips in the case, it just looks like they're off because theres nothing to power them in that picture for example. Like what do they expect everyone to have perfect eyesight that they can tell what some obscure looking line is when its white on white on white background? Like theres no contrast to be able to see anything. That's exactly why the needed to have the "What's in the box" section, as well as to clarify the idiom of "around" that they used. And exactly, nobody expects a full pc to come with the case, but any reasonable person would expect the rgb that makes a showcase case a showcase case to come with the showcase case.

you failed to do even basic research and you're mad.

 

We get it.

You, however, don't have a leg to stand on here.  At no point does it say "RGB Shinies included"

[DatScreamer]

3 minutes ago, tkitch said:

you failed to do even basic research and you're mad.

 

We get it.

You, however, don't have a leg to stand on here.  At no point does it say "RGB Shinies included"

You're assuming the main website pages for the black and the white cases are/were the same, but theres no way you can prove that. And why would I look at the black one's main store page? And what are you not understanding about consumers aren't required to do their research in a false/misleading advertising situation. The only information that matters is what's on the product store page because that is "a representation" of the product. Aka an advertisement. Go read the laws before trying to form an uneducated opinion.

You're also not even acknowledging any other aspect of this situation. Basing your opinions on 5-10% of the facts here.

[tkitch]

No, I'm basing it on more than 5-10%

Anyways, your "before" video includes a quick clip of this image:

 

 

Or for a better view:

 

 

 

Is that RGB included in the case?  

 

If it is, then you got exactly what was advertised.  Even in your before video. 

 

[DatScreamer]

13 minutes ago, tkitch said:

No, I'm basing it on more than 5-10%

Anyways, your "before" video includes a quick clip of this image:

 

 

Or for a better view:

 

 

 

Is that RGB included in the case?  

 

If it is, then you got exactly what was advertised.  Even in your before video. 

 

What are you not understanding about the other like 15x reasons why it's fundamentally deceptive and misleading and false/misleading advertising imo? Explain to me why it looks like that RGB that is ON in this photo looks like it's off in pretty much every other photo? How do you not see that it's a reasonable thing to think that they just turned that on and left the other one off to emphasize that strip since it looked like it was off in every other photo, just like how the bigger RGB looked off in every other photo except one.

 

And if you're gonna have 2 aesthetically identical light strips in various photos and say dual channel with 4 outputs that literally implies theres a lot more RGB than just one channel (the 180degree channel).

 

So, no, I still didn't get what they advertised imo.

[tkitch]

no, it's on in multiple pictures

It's washed out here, but it's here:

 

it's on here, for the little you can see

(Oh, and if you notice, there's no case edge lighting in this image, either.  So points against you.)

 

 

It's on in here:

 

Also on here, but since it's white, it's less visible

 

28 minutes ago, DatScreamer said:

You're assuming the main website pages for the black and the white cases are/were the same, but theres no way you can prove that.

 

Also about this rant?  The black and white cases are literally on the same fucking page.  You click a button to switch to white from black, and vice versa. 

[DatScreamer]

2 hours ago, tkitch said:

no, it's on in multiple pictures

It's washed out here, but it's here:

 

it's on here, for the little you can see

(Oh, and if you notice, there's no case edge lighting in this image, either.  So points against you.)

 

 

It's on in here:

 

Also on here, but since it's white, it's less visible

 

 

Also about this rant?  The black and white cases are literally on the same fucking page.  You click a button to switch to white from black, and vice versa. 

 

 

 

These are all out of order.

 

And of course this is interpretive. I believe everyone who sees these (original) images would have a very hard time deciphering anything from them in regards to if the RGB does or does not come with the case.

[tkitch]

Holy cow.  

 

This really is the hill you want to die on, no matter how much evidence you're being dumb people show you.

Well, it's been real.  Good luck with your yelling at clouds.

[DatScreamer]

8 minutes ago, tkitch said:

no, it's on in multiple pictures

It's washed out here, but it's here:

 

it's on here, for the little you can see

(Oh, and if you notice, there's no case edge lighting in this image, either.  So points against you.)

 

 

It's on in here:

 

Also on here, but since it's white, it's less visible

 

 

Also about this rant?  The black and white cases are literally on the same fucking page.  You click a button to switch to white from black, and vice versa. 

Your point means nothing because the laws are clear in my country. The only representation that matters is the one the customer saw and made their purchasing decision off. They're not required to do research if the product page was deceptive, just to find out that the product page was deceptive. Not in Canada.

[DatScreamer]

1 minute ago, tkitch said:

Holy cow.  

 

This really is the hill you want to die on, no matter how much evidence you're being dumb people show you.

Well, it's been real.  Good luck with your yelling at clouds.

You just don't seem to want to acknowledge even the fact that they used an Idiom as a descriptive word. That's absolutely messed up.

[tkitch]

2 minutes ago, DatScreamer said:

Your point means nothing because the laws are clear in my country. The only representation that matters is the one the customer saw and made their purchasing decision off. They're not required to do research if the product page was deceptive, just to find out that the product page was deceptive. Not in Canada.

In this case, you're only correct if you have the money to get a lawyer and fight this.

What I see on the page (even in your "before" video) does not say that the RGB Strips are included, and you're optimistic that it is.

So, you have 2 choices:

Get a lawyer and fight with your own money.
or

Give it up, because Ain't no way LTT wants to touch this nonsense with a 20 foot pole, cuz this is a stretch beyond a stretch.

 

Yelling at clouds ain't helping your case, and the people following this thread are doing it because they're laughing at your "I'm stomping my feet and yelling at the screen" nonsense.

[DatScreamer]

Just now, tkitch said:

In this case, you're only correct if you have the money to get a lawyer and fight this.

What I see on the page (even in your "before" video) does not say that the RGB Strips are included, and you're optimistic that it is.

So, you have 2 choices:

Get a lawyer and fight with your own money.
or

Give it up, because Ain't no way LTT wants to touch this nonsense with a 20 foot pole, cuz this is a stretch beyond a stretch.

 

Yelling at clouds ain't helping your case, and the people following this thread are doing it because they're laughing at your "I'm stomping my feet and yelling at the screen" nonsense.

Why do you think the only option is lawyering up or dropping it? Why do you think that i'm even posting because of the money? It's not about money it's about principals. How many times do I have to say that?