Network Randomly Drops Off

[munchuhmunchuh]

10 hours ago, problemsolver said:

Little confused on this: Are you saying speed tests from the computer that has slow Wi-Fi, was fine over ethernet with over 100Mbps, but then the computer it's normally connected to was 30Mbps over Ethernet? YES, this exactly.  Was this Starlink? Yes Starlink as well. 

 

The file transfer video from the NAS assuming it's Wi-Fi, seems to indicate that you just won't be getting speeds faster than ~32 Mbps (4 MB/s) over Wi-Fi regardless of your Starlink connection. This would line up with your previous posts mentioning you can't get much over 30 Mbps on the Wi-Fi with that computer.

 

At least at this point, it doesn't look like there's any issues with the equipment. Sounds like it's simply poor Wi-Fi signal to me and/or possible connected to 2.4 GHz Wi-Fi instead of 5 Ghz Wi-Fi. Okay, thats fair. 

 

To check which Wi-Fi frequency you're using open the Wi-Fi settings in Windows (search Wi-Fi on the start menu). It won't look the same, but this picture should give you a good idea of what you're looking for: So I found that I was on 2.4g. Then googling I found a site that let me change my network card from 2.4g to 5g and did a speedtest immediately after changing to 5g and found that speeds doubled from 25mbps down to just above 50mbps down while on wifi.  

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Is your D-Link router placed high-up? If it's not, you can try simply moving it upward as high as possible and see if Wi-Fi speeds improve any. Router is placed low about a foot off the ground but in an open area. I can try with some headaches to move it up or to just run ethernet somehow although that will cost money and time as the house is fully finished without me being able to get in the roof or walls. Thanks again for all the time youve spent on this, I doubt we can do much better than what we've already talked about here. 

 

[munchuhmunchuh]

10 hours ago, Robchil said:

btw..  troubleshooting wifi is a nightmare.. any material in the house can cause problems.. 

 

known issues metal structures, concrete, glass mirrors, electrical lines etc.. 

 

that's why i recommend cable every time

 

wifi is best use, get the best signal you can, like an old FM radio.. move the antenna. 

 

I think I might just move it like you said and might have to relinquish the fact that wifi will just suck other than if I somehow tear up carpet and run ethernet. Ugh

[problemsolver]

Quote

So I found that I was on 2.4g. Then googling I found a site that let me change my network card from 2.4g to 5g and did a speedtest immediately after changing to 5g and found that speeds doubled from 25mbps down to just above 50mbps down while on wifi.  

Nice! That sounds about right! This at least partially explains the speed disparity of the phone vs. the computer speeds. I can almost guarantee you the phone is using 5 GHz.
 

Quote

 

Router is placed low about a foot off the ground but in an open area. I can try with some headaches to move it up or to just run ethernet somehow although that will cost money and time as the house is fully finished without me being able to get in the roof or walls. Thanks again for all the time youve spent on this, I doubt we can do much better than what we've already talked about here. 

 

That is literally (I'm not exaggerating) the worst possible place to put it. I guess I should've asked the specific position of the router at the very start. This would've explained all the issues from the start, and explains why you tried solving the issue a year ago with no results. It is 100% poor Wi-Fi performance due to the router being placed basically on the ground. Will a newer, fancier wireless router perform better basically sitting on the ground? Very likely, but even with the D-Link router, getting it off of the ground will likely help tremendously.

 

Make sure the D-Link antennas are pointing up (towards the sky). Antenna orientation does matter, especially if you've got the thing (basically) sitting on the ground. Also, verify your wireless card antennas are pointing straight up.

 

Of course, both (router and wireless antennas for the computer) being higher would be the ideal solution. There will likely be a dramatic difference in speeds if you can just get it up to ~4-6 feet off the ground. For Wi-Fi, a general rule of thumb is higher is always better. This also explains why your phone is generally so much faster as it's in your hand (up high) normally when doing tests. (besides the 5 Ghz vs. 2.4 Ghz disparity).

 

Last:  Can you return the Asus card you bought and get something with a moveable antenna base like this? If you can't return it, it looks like the antennas on your new Wi-Fi card are attached directly to the card (which is located on the floor... not good). In your situation, getting something like this (Eightwood Dual Band Wi-Fi Antenna) pictured below would likely help tremendously; as you could then move the antennas up high where they belong.

Spoiler

 

[munchuhmunchuh]

6 hours ago, problemsolver said:

Nice! That sounds about right! This at least partially explains the speed disparity of the phone vs. the computer speeds. I can almost guarantee you the phone is using 5 GHz. Lol I can all but guarantee you're right. 
 

That is literally (I'm not exaggerating) the worst possible place to put it. I guess I should've asked the specific position of the router at the very start. This would've explained all the issues from the start, and explains why you tried solving the issue a year ago with no results. It is 100% poor Wi-Fi performance due to the router being placed basically on the ground. Will a newer, fancier wireless router perform better basically sitting on the ground? Very likely, but even with the D-Link router, getting it off of the ground will likely help tremendously. I had no idea it was that detrimental. I figured if it was near the ground the radio waves could propogate up more to give them more height before the ceiling. Lol

 

Make sure the D-Link antennas are pointing up (towards the sky). Antenna orientation does matter, especially if you've got the thing (basically) sitting on the ground. Also, verify your wireless card antennas are pointing straight up. Wilco

 

Of course, both (router and wireless antennas for the computer) being higher would be the ideal solution. There will likely be a dramatic difference in speeds if you can just get it up to ~4-6 feet off the ground. For Wi-Fi, a general rule of thumb is higher is always better. This also explains why your phone is generally so much faster as it's in your hand (up high) normally when doing tests. (besides the 5 Ghz vs. 2.4 Ghz disparity). Again, news to me. These should be PSA's when you get a new tech device lol. And yes I usually read manuals. 

 

Last:  Can you return the Asus card you bought and get something with a moveable antenna base like this? The original device we were troubleshooting before the WIFI card is the picture attached. I might just have to get "extension" wires for the WIFI card to see if I can use wires to extend the antennas up a few feet. Granted my device in the pictures is USB 3.0 If you can't return it, it looks like the antennas on your new Wi-Fi card are attached directly to the card (which is located on the floor... not good). In your situation, getting something like this (Eightwood Dual Band Wi-Fi Antenna) pictured below would likely help tremendously; as you could then move the antennas up high where they belong.

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[munchuhmunchuh]

[problemsolver]

On 2/5/2024 at 10:44 PM, munchuhmunchuh said:

 

Spoiler

 

I would go back to that Wi-Fi card pictured above and just see if there's any speed improvements using 5 Ghz and placing it as high up as possible (using the cradle). Even though it's very likely not as good as the Asus card, being able to get the antennas up high probably will more than make up for it.

 

On 2/5/2024 at 10:44 PM, munchuhmunchuh said:

I had no idea it was that detrimental. I figured if it was near the ground the radio waves could propagate up more to give them more height before the ceiling. Lol

TL;DR: Wi-Fi uses waves... waves are complicated... waves are very hard to predict how they will behave.

 

Unfortunately, Wi-Fi is incredibly complicated because it is based in waves physics. This is why on most tech forums, the first recommendation you'll see about fixing Wi-Fi issues is to recommend trying with a wired connection to see if it fixes the issue. And if I wasn't an idiot, I would've said to put your router and Wi-Fi card as high up as possible and see if that improved it.

 

Wave physics is incredibly complicated (for our purposes you could say unpredictable), and I doubt the scientists even fully understand it yet. And unfortunately, there's so many variables, it's impossible to predict how Wi-Fi will work in most situations involving houses, walls etc. Partly because unlike the ocean, we can't see how the waves move in a house, or how different material affect the waves in your specific house.

 

Luckily, there is a simple example that we are familiar with that can explain just how complicated wave physics is. Ever microwaved food? Ever had hot and cold spots in your food? That's wave physics for ya... in an incredible controlled, metal box where engineers work tirelessly to prevent standing waves and wave interference to make the microwave evenly heat food... and it still has issues... (tbf, uneven dispersion of water content in food is a contributing factor) but you can also use these same physics to make plasma using grapes. Another interesting thing about microwaves is that they use 2.4Ghz... does that sound familiar?

 

Another example: if you've ever been to a dance club/EDM/place where there is strong bass from large subwoofers... every noticed you can walk around and the thumping in your chest may feel crazy strong (from the soundwaves not the drugs!), or almost disappear if you move somewhere else? This is because low frequencies waves in music can be 9m to 12m long (a 20Hz wave is 18.2m) and they travel along walls, around ceilings etc, folding over on top of themselves and wreaking all kinds of unpredictable behavior. Again, wave physics with the usual suspects of standing waves and wave interference from the same wave or other waves. And remember, wave interference can be constructive which can make waves larger... which may sound good in theory, but can give disastrous consequences (resonance is a type of constructive interference).

 

Now imagine how waves behave in a house, with other waves, and different materials, wood, carpet, wires, metal etc. And imagine you're actually trying to send data over these waves Coincidentally, assuming low power like in Wi-Fi, the higher the frequency, the less the wave will want to follow the environment, which is why while 5 GHz Wi-Fi has lower range than 2.4 GHz at the same power, it can be less subject to some of the negative qualities mentioned above.

 

P. S. Now you know one more reason Starlink isn't the same speed every time you test. It uses waves too

 

P. S. P. S. This probably helps explain why very cheap, no-name Wi-Fi cards usually aren't the best and aren't normally recommended unless you're very close to your Wi-Fi access point... because it takes good engineering to make a good card, and that normally costs money.

Edited February 9 by problemsolver
Added a bunch of physics for some stupid reason

[munchuhmunchuh]

On 2/6/2024 at 12:25 PM, problemsolver said:

I would go back to that Wi-Fi card pictured above and just see if there's any speed improvements using 5 Ghz and placing it as high up as possible (using the cradle). Even though it's very likely not as good as the Asus card, being able to get the antennas up high probably will more than make up for it.

 

TL;DR: Wi-Fi uses waves... waves are complicated... waves are very hard to predict how they will behave.

 

Unfortunately, Wi-Fi is incredibly complicated because it is based in waves physics. This is why on most tech forums, the first recommendation you'll see about fixing Wi-Fi issues is to recommend trying with a wired connection to see if it fixes the issue. And if I wasn't an idiot, I would've said to put your router and Wi-Fi card as high up as possible and see if that improved it.

 

Wave physics is incredibly complicated (for our purposes you could say unpredictable), and I doubt the scientists even fully understand it yet. And unfortunately, there's so many variables, it's impossible to predict how Wi-Fi will work in most situations involving houses, walls etc. Partly because unlike the ocean, we can't see how the waves move in a house, or how different material affect the waves in your specific house.

 

Luckily, there is a simple example that we are familiar with that can explain just how complicated wave physics is. Ever microwaved food? Ever had hot and cold spots in your food? That's wave physics for ya... in an incredible controlled, metal box where engineers work tirelessly to prevent standing waves and wave interference to make the microwave evenly heat food... and it still has issues... (tbf, uneven dispersion of water content in food is a contributing factor) but you can also use these same physics to make plasma using grapes. Another interesting thing about microwaves is that they use 2.4Ghz... does that sound familiar?

 

Another example: if you've ever been to a dance club/EDM/place where there is strong bass from large subwoofers... every noticed you can walk around and the thumping in your chest may feel crazy strong (from the soundwaves not the drugs!), or almost disappear if you move somewhere else? This is because low frequencies waves in music can be 9m to 12m long (a 20Hz wave is 18.2m) and they travel along walls, around ceilings etc, folding over on top of themselves and wreaking all kinds of unpredictable behavior. Again, wave physics with the usual suspects of standing waves and wave interference from the same wave or other waves. And remember, wave interference can be constructive which can make waves larger... which may sound good in theory, but can give disastrous consequences (resonance is a type of constructive interference).

 

Now imagine how waves behave in a house, with other waves, and different materials, wood, carpet, wires, metal etc. And imagine you're actually trying to send data over these waves Coincidentally, assuming low power like in Wi-Fi, the higher the frequency, the less the wave will want to follow the environment, which is why while 5 GHz Wi-Fi has lower range than 2.4 GHz at the same power, it can be less subject to some of the negative qualities mentioned above.

 

P. S. Now you know one more reason Starlink isn't the same speed every time you test. It uses waves too

 

P. S. P. S. This probably helps explain why very cheap, no-name Wi-Fi cards usually aren't the best and aren't normally recommended unless you're very close to your Wi-Fi access point... because it takes good engineering to make a good card, and that normally costs money.

Whelp, after all this, I caved and just running cat6 tomorrow I dont even care anymore. LETS DO THIS!!! BRAND NEW HOUSE, WALLS GETTING DEMO'D!!!

Anyways. Thanks for all the help guys. I appreciate you guys so much. 

[Robchil]

2 hours ago, munchuhmunchuh said:

Whelp, after all this, I caved and just running cat6 tomorrow I dont even care anymore. LETS DO THIS!!! BRAND NEW HOUSE, WALLS GETTING DEMO'D!!!

Anyways. Thanks for all the help guys. I appreciate you guys so much. 

why demo the wall, don't you already have cable channels in the walls?  you can just put it on the outside along wall moldings if you have them. 

 

[problemsolver]

7 hours ago, munchuhmunchuh said:

Whelp, after all this, I caved and just running cat6 tomorrow I dont even care anymore. LETS DO THIS!!! BRAND NEW HOUSE, WALLS GETTING DEMO'D!!!

Anyways. Thanks for all the help guys. I appreciate you guys so much. 

Maybe something was lost in translation, but I agree with @Robchil that demoing a wall is a little extreme. Not sure if that was hyperbole/in jest, but unless you're trying to achieve 100 Mbps speeds, I think you can probably get 'good enough' speeds using 5 GHz and moving some equipment around.

 

The other way you can do it is run ethernet in the wall, up to the attic, across to the other wall and back down in that wall. Convenient wall plates exist were all you need are wire strippers and a punch down tool to terminate the cable straight to the wall plate. (assuming a very permanent installation)

 

There are all kinds of fire codes depending on the country you live in, and you'll need in-wall-rated Ethernet cable, and you'll need to avoid all electrical mains.

May sound extremely difficult, but with a little Googling it isn't actually that bad (even if your attic has foam insulation, you can poke some tiny holes and seal them up with foam after). I know if it were me, I'd probably go that route over demoing a wall.

 

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