Buying a New Car is Stupid

[Agall]

21 minutes ago, randy123 said:

There is hardly any maintenance on EV's 

Stop lying about EV's. 

There should be less mechanical maintenance since they're mechanically simpler, but that doesn't mean the implementations of EVs we have on the market don't require equivalent service/maintenance because of other issues, like software or features added.

 

I'd love to have a 'KISS' principle EV without all the fluff, but I'd also like to have an ICE vehicle of the same. Even a touch screen HUD is just unnecessary complexity IMO. 

[Karthanon]

53 minutes ago, randy123 said:

There is hardly any maintenance on EV's 

Stop lying about EV's. 

I agree, you should stop lying about EV's.

[randy123]

1 hour ago, Karthanon said:

I agree, you should stop lying about EV's.

You're the one that is lying.

As per the United States DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY

The 2021 Department of Energy report aligns with the findings of this study. Research from the Department of Energy shows gas-powered car maintenance costs amount to 10.1 cents per mile, 4 cents more than the electric cars’ 6.1 cents per mile cost.

 

Enjoy paying thousands of dollars every year for g*s lmao 

[Karthanon]

48 minutes ago, randy123 said:

Enjoy paying thousands of dollars every year for g*s lmao 

(Oh noes, a whole 4 cents a mile / 2.5c a kilometer, whatever shall I do).  Consumable, like electricity. Not caring.  Sure, you may pay less per km, but on a long trip I don't need to worry about range anxiety, nor sitting in one place for an hour while my car charges.

You can say the word 'gas', you know. You won't get struck down by the EV Fairy.
 

[danwat1234]

327K miles on my 2013 Chevy Volt which is essentially an EV ... an EV with a generator .. 'Extended-range EV'.

Drivetrain life is basically infinite just change the transaxle fluid every 100K. Gas engine has had a PCV valve, spark plugs/coilpack, O2s replaced and that's it. Sure, they say the main seal is leaking but the rate is not cause for concern. Electric power steering no work done ever just rods. Suspension work because i race over speed bumps and pot holes every day and axles and engine mounts delivering food. But 'maintenance'? Maintenance cost is minimal in an EV. Just rare fluid changes. 

[Beerzerker]

On 1/30/2024 at 9:08 AM, randy123 said:

Stopped reading your post there, lying in your first sentence.

Enjoy typing all that out for me just not to read it if your going to just spread misinformation

Only misinformation here comes from you, summing it up as you buy the car, drive it home and nothing else beyond that, which IS misinformation/misrepresentation of these. 
If anyone had lied it's you by the way you put things about them and then have the utter gall to insult folks that choose to drive something else.

It's our choice, not yours to dictate towards anyone in any way.

On 1/30/2024 at 10:51 AM, Lomac said:

I love me an ICE vehicle just as much as the next car enthusiast (I have a track prepped GTI that I regularly race, and my two daily driver cars are also gas powered) but some of your arguments aren't the greatest to be made.

 

Tires - So long as you put on tires with the proper load rating, they will generally last as long as those on lighter vehicles. Top tire brands also make EV-specific models. I've seen a bunch roll through my shop and they seem to last just as long - if not longer - than simply choosing a specific load rating.

 

Maintenance - Considering the average owner of a new car keeps it for between 6 to 8 uears, that's well within the warranty period for the battery. Most car manufacturers warranty them for 8 to 10 years. Now, to your point, this does open up your concern about the used car market and I'm interested to see how it goes in the long term. I don't see why existing battery companies like Interstate and Optima wouldn't get into the replacement market eventually but in the short term is it a valid concern.

 

Charging costs - Obviously this will highly depend on where someone lives. I'm luckily in the sense that I have access to relatively cheap electricity in BC ($0.09/kwh) but a state like Hawaii is five times as much. And unlike certain places, our rates currently don't change throughout the year due to increased demand. Regardless, it's definitely a hell of a lot cheaper to charge up an EV than put fuel in my car's.

 

Weight - Truthfully, I don't think this is as much of a concern if people were a bit more concerned with what sort of vehicles they buy. A Tesla Model S weighs nearly the same amount as the most popular vehicle sold in the USA - the F150. The BMW iX weighs the same as an F250, also a very popular vehicle. Even here in Vancouver the roads and above/underground parkades are littered with F-series and their competitors equivalents. If weight wasn't a concern when lots are filled with full sized pickup trucks, then it doesn't really need to be addressed now. That said, I know vehicles like the Lightning do weigh more but I also feel like the public at large do need to be more conscious of what vehicles they buy and why they're buying it. Manufacturers getting around fuel economy regulations by making their trucks bigger and heavier are also partially at fault.

 

Fires do concern me, though. I became a bit of a meme with our local car club after I had a heavily modified car burn down unexpectedly (alternator regulator failed, causing massive failure to the battery, ironically) and I even had a second vehicle try to burn down after a shop left a rag on my exhaust manifold, though luckily at that point I started carrying a fire extinguisher in my daily and got it out before any real damage occurred. Regardless, fires are genuinely my one real fear in life now and I am concerned about how even EVs that appear to be put out after a fire can flare back up. I know that statistically EVs burn down at a much lower rate than their ICE equivalents, but the chain reaction that can occur when they do catch fire is concerning.

Well, considering I've worked for an automotive dealership and after that on equipment (Industrial no less) with electric vehicles in the field and in-house, I've been around them for over 25 years at the very least.
The thing about tires, if of a proper load rating is fine but those of a "Better" rating are also more expensive too and you still have to pay for it everytime you buy a set with the need for disposal anyway, which you will pay a disposal fee for.

 

The thing about maintenance is no matter how it's put, more technical than your average gas vehicle because of the nature of it (Being electric) which in turn means it's more expensive - And I know that because I used to work on them and did things like I had to write up the paperwork on repairs made to the customer so I saw what the customer was being charged in each case. 
Between the 4 types of these (Gas, diesel, propane and electric) we worked on electrics far more than the others and yes, I've had to repair all 4 at some time so I do have work/repair experience with them. 

And I can tell you directly, sometimes these things are a complete P.ain I.n T.he A.ss to get working correctly and reliably too.
At the equipment dealer I was a tech for, we had one we called the "Yale from Hell" because everytime it went out on rental it would breakdown - Like clockwork and I literally mean it that way.
From the time it hit the dock to it's usual "Thing" was about an hour, you could almost set your watch by it that way and it was always being worked on, either  there or back at the shop to fix whatever went wrong with it.

I'm just glad I never had to mess with it or I probrably would have been tempted to "Fix it" in such a way (Toss a lit match in it's general direction ) it would never give trouble again.
It was that bad.

Now - Once you learn how they work and just "Them " in general, it's not so bad but you cannot expect the average person to know all this, have the equipment/tools to do the work either and these days reference materials for doing about anything to them if you must is not readily available publicly.

Even with what I was doing were were some companies that treated their stuff like it was a "Secret" and they refused to share technical info on what they made to anyone, including other dealers/shops of the same type vehicles/equipment so you can bet the average person like you or me won't be getting it.

Charging costs are just that and as I had put it earlier, "Ain't no free ride" there with all that followed applying because it's just the reality of it. Every bit of power used you pay for and while you CAN compare it to gas in that way, at least you won't be stuck in a loss of power/rolling blackout/lack of power due to storm damage and the like.
At least even in those circumstances you can pour some gas in and go if you really have to but you can't pour a can of electrons in and go.

The winter storm in Chicago was the perfect example and that's no lie at all, just look up things about how folks were stranded with batteries dying, chargers not wanting to work in cold weather, batteries refusing to take a charge and because you must "Condition" these batteries before you can even charge them, you might "Be There" for a LONG time.
It was no joke about tow trucks hauling these to a charger because of that either and all that is well documented too as FACT. 

Weight - These by vehicle type are heavier than their counterparts of the same model/size and whatnot.
Maybe not double the weight but it's still there all the same because of the battery being of the size/capacity it has to be for the range required with the effects as described.

The thing about fires is a real concern too.
All I said about it is true and well documented as FACT.
The latest relatable example was the bus over in the UK that burned and required an evacuaiton of a full city block all around the spot where the bus lit up due to the toxic fumes/smoke it was belching out. Took them a very long time to finally get things to a manageable state because they had to wait for the battery to quit popping off.
There have been other examples of just how violent these batteries will burn once it starts and there is never any real warning of it before it happens either.

You have the right to choose for yourself what to get and I'm fine with it because like anyone else I've made mine already, and it's based on years of experience around both vehicle types about deciding.

BTW I'm not going to call you "Stupid", Ignorant", make backhanded insults like someone else has in here or whatever else just because you made a choice as I did. 
That's your right to decide for yourself and honestly, I'm convinced the tech itself just isn't ready for prime time.... Not yet.

Drive what you want to drive and be happy - I am.

[David89]

16 hours ago, Karthanon said:

(Oh noes, a whole 4 cents a mile / 2.5c a kilometer, whatever shall I do).  Consumable, like electricity. Not caring.  Sure, you may pay less per km, but on a long trip I don't need to worry about range anxiety, nor sitting in one place for an hour while my car charges.

You can say the word 'gas', you know. You won't get struck down by the EV Fairy.
 

To me, the funniest thing about that argument is, one can apply that to everything. Why use a 7950X, when a 7600 is more than sufficient?

 

The simple fact of the matter is: We could all go back to planned economy and only produce that, that's actually needed and "the best" for all. Does anyone in their right mind want that? No. Thing x is more expensive, yes, does it matter? No, if that's what i want or if that product is better suited for what i need it do to.

 

Apart from that, that number is mighty different in all parts of the world. For the BEV example, if you rent an apartment in Germany, you have to drive to chargers. Most of these are fast chargers, making them ridiculously expensive (like 80 cents per kwh). Even with projected E-Fuel/Synthetic Fuel prices of ~ 2,50 Euro per Liters, a BEV that averages 18 kWh/100km  would cost in excess of 14 Euros per 100 km. My Mazda CX-60 Diesel can be driven with less than 5 l/100 km, at 2,50 Euro per Liter that would make for 12,50 per 100 km. The funny thing is, I'm fueling up with HVO Diesel at the moment (synthetic fuel, 90% less Co2)...for 1,82 Euros per Liter. It's expected that the price rises to roughly 2 Euros, but not much more than that, making it 10 Euros per 100 km. Sure, there are BEVs that are using only 14 kWh per 100 km and you could argue that most flats/apartments will get chargers that are a lot cheaper...but that's at least 10 years off.

 

Now - if we do that exact calculation with used cars...BEVs are even more expensive. One of the cheapest BEVs right now is the Fiat 500E or in Europe especially the Dacia Spring (which is not a car i would driven, even gifted). The Fiat in Germany is roughly 30k Euros. No idea how it is in Canada, but for 10k Euros you get lot's of cars, like a Golf 1.6 TDI that's really easy to drive at around 5 l/100km (probably even less). Let's add 5k in savings to keep the car "alive" for the next 10 years and add the costs for driving it 200.000 km (20k per year is on the upper end for Germany...probably the same for canada?) - plus 18k in fuel, plus let's say 14k in upkeep (insurance, tax, etc). 34k in 10 Years - that's pretty cheap (roughly 280 Euros per Month)

 

Every single BEV will be more expensive...hence, buying a new car is stupid.

[Karthanon]

3 hours ago, David89 said:

To me, the funniest thing about that argument is, one can apply that to everything. Why use a 7950X, when a 7600 is more than sufficient?

Just let people buy and use what they want. Someone wants to use an EV? Be my guest.  I would have loved to get an Outlander PHEV (I like Mitsu's, no hate please, heh), but for the price...meh, I'll enjoy the RVR instead (no longer need a 7 seater as my kids are grown up and don't need as much cargo room).

 

In Canada we're a bit more spread out - in most cases in urban areas you'll be dependent on a vehicle to get groceries/move around (except in those areas with good public transportation), and if in rural - well, you'll be doing more driving. My 2009 Outlander at the point it went bye bye in 2023 (thank you, accident) I had done about 23k average a year, so I don't think that's on the high end at all.

 

[WiscoMetro]

On 1/30/2024 at 11:41 AM, Agall said:

I'd love to have a 'KISS' principle EV without all the fluff, but I'd also like to have an ICE vehicle of the same. Even a touch screen HUD is just unnecessary complexity IMO. 

Absolutely agree here. I'd even try a 1970's Sebring-Vanguard Citicar given the chance.

 

---

 

For multiple reasons buying a new car is stupid. But if one must get a new car, it really does need to be electric at this point. If one still feels they need a gas car (or a deal) there's used cars a plenty. This isn't that unrealistic, look in a junkyard and see how many relatively recent cars are there without major damage. With a more robust used market there would certainly be less waste both in production and stuff getting junked prematurely.

 

Think about it as an "iron inertia" with each purchase and what is in existence. Buy a gas car today and it could well still be around in 2050, at such a time that gas will certainly be onerously expensive and frowned upon, and restrictions will limit where you can use it(like in central London today), and the climactic equilibrium is well past being able to handle additional emissions(it already is, hence the urgency of the climate scientists who has taken the time to come to a greater understanding of what is occurring).

 

Gas stations weren't fully built out before gas cars necessitated it. EV infrastructure is being built in lock step or behind the need, growing pains will surely happen, but is but a stage that needs to be fought through.

 

Lithium mining will be one of the blight of the next age. But compared to the blight of oil spills and air pollution it won't be any worse, the only way out of picking a poison would be to accept a slower society with nothing but bicycles and sailing ships. We need electromobility, and if it ends up being not a perfect replacement we still need to make it work, for there is no adapting to a runaway greenhouse effect if we keep collectively not taking the externality of emissions into account. Individual actions add up to the whole!

[Agall]

9 minutes ago, WiscoMetro said:

 

 But if one must get a new car, it really does need to be electric at this point.

I just don't agree with this point specifically, assuming buying a new car is a necessity. I think its too broad of a conclusion for how the most of the world's infrastructure is setup, including maintenance. I imagine a local mechanic could 'service' a new EV, but they probably won't be able to do much if they don't have the right equipment.

 

I'm even looking at adding several KW of solar panels to my new house, which may or may not justify buying an EV. Though that's just normal traffic, and I'd rather still have the reliability/consistency of an ICE vehicle. I'm basically forced to use a truck for various reasons and its not that I couldn't afford an expensive EV truck, its just simply not worth it. I am looking at EV dual sport DOT approved bikes though, which would be an economically/ecologically friendly way of commuting my soon to be shorter commute. I've also had electric yard equipment for the last several years, since buying an ICE lawnmower/weed-wacker just felt dumb.

[WiscoMetro]

6 minutes ago, Agall said:

I just don't agree with this point specifically, assuming buying a new car is a necessity. I think its too broad of a conclusion for how the most of the world's infrastructure is setup, including maintenance. I imagine a local mechanic could 'service' a new EV, but they probably won't be able to do much if they don't have the right equipment.

 

I'm even looking at adding several KW of solar panels to my new house, which may or may not justify buying an EV. Though that's just normal traffic, and I'd rather still have the reliability/consistency of an ICE vehicle. I'm basically forced to use a truck for various reasons and its not that I couldn't afford an expensive EV truck, its just simply not worth it. I am looking at EV dual sport DOT approved bikes though, which would be an economically/ecologically friendly way of commuting my soon to be shorter commute. I've also had electric yard equipment for the last several years, since buying an ICE lawnmower/weed-wacker just felt dumb.

But buying a new car is never a necessity. Sure, someone might feel that it is but, no, that's marketing being effective. Used is always an option.

 

I think we're on a similar train of thought though. I too have put off getting an EV due to the fact of old ICE repairability/reliability. Then, all my lawn equipment is corded electric. When I almost bought an EV last year I came to figure out that the cost per mile given my gas and electric prices would make it a wash financially, which was a little disappointing.

 

Hope your solar panel plans pan out!

[Agall]

18 minutes ago, WiscoMetro said:

But buying a new car is never a necessity. Sure, someone might feel that it is but, no, that's marketing being effective. Used is always an option.

 

I think we're on a similar train of thought though. I too have put off getting an EV due to the fact of old ICE repairability/reliability. Then, all my lawn equipment is corded electric. When I almost bought an EV last year I came to figure out that the cost per mile given my gas and electric prices would make it a wash financially, which was a little disappointing.

 

Hope your solar panel plans pan out!

The only scenario I can think of where a new card is necessary is if there was a feature or design element required for a specific purpose, but rarely are vehicles innovative enough to justify such.

 

An unfortunate example; I believe in the US Infrastructure bill passed not that long ago requires 'drunk driver detection systems' to be in every vehicle by like 2025? One of those things that sneaked in.

 

Congressional Drunk Driver Detection Mandate Raises Privacy Questions | ACLU

 

Just another layer of complexity to these already exceptionally complex devices.

 

At work I manage solar panels that are nearly 2 decades old and perform very well with basically no maintenance. 

 

(orange is panel output, the top value is total building consumption, so about 25% of current consumption is handled by the solar array)

 

Even at this time of year, that's some killer output. Its quite a massive array of panels though in comparison, so I'm looking at 5KW or so currently. I'll have to do the math at some point in the next couple months.

[Karthanon]

1 hour ago, WiscoMetro said:

But if one must get a new car, it really does need to be electric at this point.

On this, I disagree, but I wish it would be possible to get EV conversion kits/engines for relatively recent cars that made sense economically (and engineering-wise) for those vehicles you speak of in a junkyard.

Edited January 31 by Karthanon
added engineering-wise (heh)

[Agall]

2 minutes ago, Karthanon said:

On this, I disagree, but I wish it would be possible to get EV conversion kits/engines for relatively recent cars that made sense economically (and engineering-wise) for those vehicles you speak of in a junkyard.

Just wouldn't be practical, unfortunately. The drive train on EVs is usually dramatically different than ICE, including how weight distribution is handled with the batteries. On a commercial scale and not 1 offs here and there, it would be awesome, but its just not practical on a large scale. Conversion kits of any type have their own slew of nuance, especially in an industry with dramatic part variety/complexity.

 

Personally, I think the best middle ground is an electric drive train EV-hybrid that has a built in gas/diesel generator as a backup. I forget which one is which, but one of Chevy's hybrids come to mind that a friend had back in ~2016.

[Skipple]

3 hours ago, WiscoMetro said:

But if one must get a new car, it really does need to be electric at this point.

This is a ridiculous statement. In the US under 10% of new car sales are electric. 

If one has the means and desire to purchase electric, it's a good choice, but it's certainly not a necessity. Electric vehicles, their technology, and the surrounding infrastructure are, by comparison, still it's it's infancy. 

 

3 hours ago, WiscoMetro said:

Gas stations weren't fully built out before gas cars necessitated it.

Yes, that's true, but it was also prior to entire suburban and metro infrastructure being built assuming you had a vehicle to transport you from A to B. You can't say "well cars worked in the 1920s prior to gas stations being on every corner so we deal with the sub-optimal infrastructure for electric!" because you can't live on sub-optimal infrastructure and live in the modern world. I need to know that my car is going to be able to take me where I need to go without worry and without question or hiccup because I can't accept anything less and be a functional adult in the US. 

[Neroon]

On 1/20/2024 at 10:59 PM, Beerzerker said:

These days, monthly payments for a alot of vehicles is almost the same (In some cases it's more) as making a house payment.
TBH, in my case I could invest the same (Or less) than the cost of a new one in something I already have and come out better too. Already did that with my old pickup (91 S10 4x4) and it's doing just fine.
 

To me this is complete insanity. I've heard and read about how crazy these car payments get in the US for cars, and I feel that it's absolutely crazy for people to have a super expensive brand new car, but either struggle paying for it, or having almost no money left at the end of the month.

 

I can spend more on a car now, as my last one was 12k, I would have no issue to spend like 2-4k on a decent 20 year old car. It may not impress your neighbours, but at least you can save up the money to move away from them.

[Bitter]

This argument is stupid.

[Godlygamer23]

12 hours ago, David89 said:

To me, the funniest thing about that argument is, one can apply that to everything. Why use a 7950X, when a 7600 is more than sufficient?

The answer to this is entirely dependent on what the user wants to do with it, and how much they think their time is worth. For people that know what they're doing, the only person that can really answer that is themselves, regardless of what others think. And that's what engineering is primarily about. Creating solutions that are actually useful while compromising on things that maybe don't matter to the end user, or are necessary in order to make something work within the available budget and price range.

 

To that end, a 7600 can be sufficient for many people, but for people that want to maximize the performance within their available budget, they may choose to get the 7950X instead. 

[Agall]

14 hours ago, Neroon said:

I can spend more on a car now

Which means you can also start saving for purchasing a house where you'll maintain a lot more equity and start building wealth. Vehicles get you from A to B, and just like how 6th generation Intel CPUs and newer of sufficient cores can still be used for general computing, pretty much any vehicle within the several last decades in good shape is sufficient for general driving.

 

Unless you have specific needs/requirements, that's all you're really doing, general driving, the equivalent to browsing the web and watching videos.

[DaITguy]

On 1/20/2024 at 10:03 PM, Jstowe56 said:

factory option for steering wheel audio controls,

that's a great detail! thankfully mine already has steering controls. thanks for pointing it out! if i didn't have any i probably never would have thought of that

[Neroon]

On 2/1/2024 at 3:44 PM, Agall said:

Which means you can also start saving for purchasing a house where you'll maintain a lot more equity and start building wealth. Vehicles get you from A to B, and just like how 6th generation Intel CPUs and newer of sufficient cores can still be used for general computing, pretty much any vehicle within the several last decades in good shape is sufficient for general driving.

 

Unless you have specific needs/requirements, that's all you're really doing, general driving, the equivalent to browsing the web and watching videos.

That's an oversimplification however. Some people value a car more than others, and use it differently. In my case I enjoy driving and drive a convertible (BMW E93) that has decent speed. (about 7-7,5 secs to 100kph/62mph). For some people this doesn't matter, but I really enjoy it.

 

You could argue the same for people who pay insane amounts every month, but not only do a lot of them severely struggle to pay, which I don't, and the diminishing returns of buying new vs a similar car that is 10+ years old, is just bad. New cars are 1 of the worst ways to spend your money from a monetary standpoint. Buying them through some plan makes it even worse. Add that if you can barely afford it, and it amounts to people being really stupid.

[Agall]

On 2/4/2024 at 2:40 AM, Neroon said:

I enjoy driving and drive a convertible (BMW E93) that has decent speed. (about 7-7,5 secs to 100kph/62mph). For some people this doesn't matter, but I really enjoy it.

Yes, vehicles can be an expensive hobby. My brother's truck in comparison to mine is Silverado ~$50k, then he got a bunch of work put into it including a lift. Now he enjoys having to worry about clearance wherever he goes in comparison to my stock Tacoma TRD (still with discounted hail damage, its white so I call it the 'golf ball edition') can still equally off road in the places we've gone or that I regularly go.

 

His wife also enjoys replacing her vehicle every couple years, so together, they spent an absurd amount of vehicles. They at least still make enough and are savvy enough to not run into major problems because of it. In comparison, I have to fight the urge to not zero out the remainder of my truck payment since I need more credit history (I've somehow gotten to +800 with only ever having 5 lines of credit history, 3 still active).

 

On 2/4/2024 at 2:40 AM, Neroon said:

New cars are 1 of the worst ways to spend your money from a monetary standpoint. Buying them through some plan makes it even worse. Add that if you can barely afford it, and it amounts to people being really stupid.

Insert joke about a fresh out of boot camp E-1 Army Infantryman who goes and buys a new Charger at an 18% interest rate. I've seen this scenario a few times growing up around an infantry base and then doing 6 years active myself. Although in my field, this was virtually unheard of, but still happened (the guy also married a French woman who refused to touch him and only married him for the residency). 

[Bitter]

3 hours ago, Agall said:

Yes, vehicles can be an expensive hobby. My brother's truck in comparison to mine is Silverado ~$50k, then he got a bunch of work put into it including a lift. Now he enjoys having to worry about clearance wherever he goes in comparison to my stock Tacoma TRD (still with discounted hail damage, its white so I call it the 'golf ball edition') can still equally off road in the places we've gone or that I regularly go.

 

His wife also enjoys replacing her vehicle every couple years, so together, they spent an absurd amount of vehicles. They at least still make enough and are savvy enough to not run into major problems because of it. In comparison, I have to fight the urge to not zero out the remainder of my truck payment since I need more credit history (I've somehow gotten to +800 with only ever having 5 lines of credit history, 3 still active).

 

Insert joke about a fresh out of boot camp E-1 Army Infantryman who goes and buys a new Charger at an 18% interest rate. I've seen this scenario a few times growing up around an infantry base and then doing 6 years active myself. Although in my field, this was virtually unheard of, but still happened (the guy also married a French woman who refused to touch him and only married him for the residency). 

There's an abandoned Dodge charger in Finland or Sweden with Illinois plates on it. I can only assume some service member brought it over, it broke, and they just walked away from it. Like a late model one not a classic or anything, v6 and all. I'll try to find it again tonight if I can remember. Quite the mystery.

[Agall]

Toyota IMV 0 Concept Is a Build-Your-Own Electric Pickup Truck (caranddriver.com)

 

I don't think I've ever been excited about a vehicle before, but this might take the cake.

[norgaladir]

Has anyone tried the "portable" android auto/carplay units? Portable as in you mount them on your dash instead of replacing the head unit, which are useful for cars with harder to replace (either physically, or finding one due lack of compatibility/availability) head units, or you just like the look the stock one. They also tend to be a little cheaper so you're not stuck sinking money into a vehicle with only a couple years left, and easier to bring to your next vehicle or resell/gift after.

 

The best ones I've come across are (it'd be nice to get a video on these as well):

 

Eonon (best overall?) https://www.eonon.com/Android-Car-GPS/Double-Din-GPS-Navigation/eonon-9-inch-portable-car-radio-with-4K-dashcam-and-1080P-backup-camera.html

 

Lamtto (best budget option) https://lamtto.com/products/lamtto-rc06-10-touchscreen-wireless-apple-carplay-car-stereo-with-voice-control?variant=48357758730556

 

Carpuride (premium option) https://carpuride.com/collections/carpuride-w903/products/carpuride-w903-portable-smart-multimedia-dashboard-console-with-dual-cameras