Apple confirms 256GB of storage will be on their Vision Pro

[saltycaramel]

16GB ram just confirmed in Xcode, no nickel and diming there.

[HenrySalayne]

8 hours ago, Dracarris said:

No. That model, na matter how often people on this forum repeat it, has enough users which do jolly fine with the base config. That machine is very very far from "basically obsolete".

 

[Dracarris]

3 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

 

Cool. Still not obsolete or unusable by any means.

 

Having more of anything beneficial is most of the times better. Selling less at higher price makes companies more money. More news at eleven.

[Kisai]

4 hours ago, Dracarris said:

Cool. Still not obsolete or unusable by any means.

 

Having more of anything beneficial is most of the times better. Selling less at higher price makes companies more money. More news at eleven.

Nope, the opposite. Having weaker products sold at premium prices drives people away from them.

 

If you have a product aimed at mass-consumption, you price it, or below your competitor with the same configuration. To do otherwise is to leave sales on the table. That price would then keep getting pushed down until the product that is genuinely the better product outstrips supply.

 

When you sell products that are not upgradable, and anemically configured, a lot of people wait on the sidelines for a "better" product that never materializes.

 

You know what have had me abandon the Microsoft camp forever? If every Mac Pro had been priced within 10% of a Dell with the same configuration, or at 50% better for the same price. No instead we've had the opposite, where every single Apple product has gotten worse at the entry level. Ask me why I have a 2006 and 2012 Macmini and not a 2018 or 2024 one, and never a Mac Pro. Because the RAM is soldered (sure 2018 's RAM wasn't but the storage was, but 2014 had soldered RAM and a propietary SSD, and I didn't want to risk it.) The Mac Pro Apple thought was a good idea in 2014-2020? Same problems. 

 

Like I might forgive the soldered RAM, since RAM tends to not die, but SSD, that's an absolute no-sale. Soldered storage should be a computer sin until there is a SSD that has no wear. I have spinning drives that have been in service for over 10 years, and yet, I've also worked on servers that had SSD's die after 2-3 years. There is no way I will ever trust soldered storage, if it's soldered, then it better be the largest SSD available at the time.

 

 

 

[Godlygamer23]

23 hours ago, da na said:

Let's be real here. Nothing is actually stored on your iphone or iVRheadset. They'll use maybe 10GB of that space and try to upsell you on a $49.99/month 4TB iCloud plan.

Everything that I use on my iPhone is stored locally, whether on my NAS, or my iPhone, so most things for me that I actually use on my iPhone are actually ON the device.

 

Granted, I might be in the minority here, but people do actually store data on their actual devices.

[Issac Zachary]

4 hours ago, Kisai said:

Nope, the opposite. Having weaker products sold at premium prices drives people away from them.

Just a guess here, as I don't really use any Apple products, but there may be a case for weaker products sold at premium prices if there's some other benefit that is only available on said line of products.

[Dracarris]

6 hours ago, Kisai said:

Nope, the opposite. Having weaker products sold at premium prices drives people away from them.

Sure. Because Apple is doing horrible and not selling any of these computers.

 

Maybe check out the recent growth rates of the share of Mac computers in the consumer space.

 

You do you, the masses do the masses. Members of this forum arent‘t representative in the least of the general public.

1 hour ago, Issac Zachary said:

Just a guess here, as I don't really use any Apple products, but there may be a case for weaker products sold at premium prices if there's some other benefit that is only available on said line of products.

Yep. For people on this forum, a premium product absolutely necessarily must be a high-performance machine, and must have big numbers on the box. That's not how a lot of folks roll, and for very good and sane reasons. If I'd be honest with myself I'd do jolly fine with a Macbook Air, since, as I have said a gazillion times on this forum, a premium laptop experience for me is almost solely defined by things like screen, trackpad, keyboard, reliability, overall build quality and longevity, and first and foremost efficiency/battery life/time away from the wall while being snappy and responsive.

 

Do I have 1TB of storage in there "just to be sure"? Yes. How much of it do I actually use? Less than 300GB, and I could even do with less. A lot of work people do on a laptop does neither require a lot storage nor high performance, but all the things I listed above, and so they have very good reasons to buy a Macbook. They are still "Pro" or at least "power" users, no matter how many times people on this forum refuse to acknowledge this (anyone not requiring a node-locked 4090 on a daily basis is not a Pro use, hurr durr PCMR).

 

But it's like talking to a wall, counting the times I have said the above on this platform, I have given up hope that people on here will ever understand this.

5 hours ago, Godlygamer23 said:

Everything that I use on my iPhone is stored locally, whether on my NAS, or my iPhone, so most things for me that I actually use on my iPhone are actually ON the device.

 

Granted, I might be in the minority here, but people do actually store data on their actual devices.

+1 for this, with the exception of the automatic nightly iphone backup. If your actual data (not OS, apps) fits into 50GB that's a lot of convenience for a single $ per month. If you have an SO, friend or whatever to do family sharing with, you can have 150GB per person for 1.50$ by using the 300GB/3$ tier together. Both of which are totally reasonable IMHO, and you get all of the other paid icloud features "for free", some of the privacy-related ones are quite handy and convenient, IMHO.

[leadeater]

7 hours ago, Kisai said:

Nope, the opposite. Having weaker products sold at premium prices drives people away from them.

Apple/Mac market share has been going up year over year consistently....

 

2 hours ago, Issac Zachary said:

Just a guess here, as I don't really use any Apple products, but there may be a case for weaker products sold at premium prices if there's some other benefit that is only available on said line of products.

Mac OS and all the native and included Apple applications is pretty damn big draw card.

[Kisai]

2 hours ago, Issac Zachary said:

Just a guess here, as I don't really use any Apple products, but there may be a case for weaker products sold at premium prices if there's some other benefit that is only available on said line of products.

*shakes head*

 

No, the thing is, I like Apple products, but the reasons I kept not buying Apple always boiled down to being too bloody weak to do anything useful that I would otherwise still need a second computer for. Someone going to school/college/university is better off with a macbook Pro because the laptop will get them through 4 years without needing to be replaced, where as a dell might have a dead battery or SSD by time year 2 rolls around, or worse, an ASUS/Gigabyte/MSI laptop gaming laptop that is dead after 2 hours.

 

I'm not saying those devices are for everyone. But I am saying that the iMac, MacMini and Mac Pro have always been the worst value, because you have a screen in the iMac that can easily outlive the rest of it's parts by a decade, so iMac's are pretty much eWaste for the price you pay for them, and the MacMini and Pro are nice products, but ONLY when it fits your exact use single-use case.  So with the M1 the MacMini and Mac Pro are viable video editing/3D modeling platforms. They are not however performance parity because they come with anemic base builds. I can not justify paying the premium for parts that wear out. I can justify maybe buying a model with more RAM if I can get 5+ years out of it, I can not justify paying that for the storage which I know will be dead before the rest of the parts and not user serviceable or replacable by Apple by the time it does die.

 

I already had the not fun experience of Apple changing the battery on the iPhone 6S, and then an iOS update rolled out that killed the ability for the device to be charged without "authorizing" the USB charger , so it died and I had to buy another flagship model, and damn well plan on using it until 4G starts getting turned off. Most other people would probably buy a new phone every 2 years because that's what they've been trained by their WISP to do.

 

I'm asking for Apple to back away from adding to the eWaste problem by finding solutions that allow use of the device longer by replacing the battery and storage by the user or a third party if they are not going to produce parts for it indefinitely. 

[leadeater]

2 hours ago, Dracarris said:

But it's like talking to a wall, counting the times I have said the above on this platform, I have given up hope that people on here will ever understand this.

People here don't disagree with that sentiment, nether do they agree with how you and other portray it 

 

You don't need a 4090 for sure and literally nobody has said a laptop requires one to be "Pro" here, literally zero.

 

You often build your own walls too, so instead of saying what you say like that maybe people can and do have a point but you don't have to agree. I don't think any MacBook Pro should be getting sold with 8GB ram in 2021, 2022 and 2023. You don't have to agree, but that's my opinion and i do have good reasons.

 

I just know, and I know you do too, that Apple is foremost going to go down the most profit path not the best for the consumer path like every other company does. Apple may have quality standards for their products but they make concessions and choices for many reasons.

 

Like all things, if you want to over pay for a ram upgrade then that is your and everyone else's choice, while others can choose to say that is dumb that you have to do that. Freedom of expression, isn't it great 

[Kisai]

9 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Apple/Mac market share has been going up year over year consistently....

I didn't say they weren't. I'm saying that the reason people keep being silly trolls and going "well I'm gonna use linux/steamdeck/reactos/etc" when we know they will not be using those as their daily drivers comes right back to the problem illustrated. Windows is going in a direction we don't want to see it going again (after "Windows 10 will be the last Windows OS debacle") right back into "you will own nothing" of Microsoft of 2014.

 

People are switching to MacOS because they aren't tied to Windows and have no alternatives they are willing to learn. Plop an iPad kid down who used an iPad/iPhone and they know how to use it. 

 

The rest of us who had to grow up on Windows, kinda loathe it, and would love to be on MacOS if the hardware wasn't so weak.

 

9 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Mac OS and all the native and included Apple applications is pretty damn big draw card.

 

That's true, but I've never seen someone buy a mac just to Final Cut Express or Garage Band, espeically since the GB version on the iPad is more intuitive to making music.

[leadeater]

7 minutes ago, Kisai said:

That's true, but I've never seen someone buy a mac just to Final Cut Express or Garage Band, espeically since the GB version on the iPad is more intuitive to making music.

I have seen many people buy a Mac just for Garage Band and iMovie and because they have other Apple products. If you go through high school and do arts then you'll be vastly more likely to buy a Mac, kind of just how it goes. It's also the advice I give to anyone that way inclined, Mac OS and a Mac will just do you better.

 

I've also seen the other side of the coin, when it was trendy to have a MacBook in the business sector for managers and executives then they all asked for and got them without any regard. Same happen when Microsoft Surface was the in thing, all the MacBooks went away and everyone had those, the dumbest reasons can be the biggest drivers, fighting it is futile.

[Dracarris]

54 minutes ago, leadeater said:

People here don't disagree with that sentiment, nether do they agree with how you and other portray it 

 

You don't need a 4090 for sure and literally nobody has said a laptop requires one to be "Pro" here, literally zero.

 

You often build your own walls too, so instead of saying what you say like that maybe people can and do have a point but you don't have to agree. I don't think any MacBook Pro should be getting sold with 8GB ram in 2021, 2022 and 2023. You don't have to agree, but that's my opinion and i do have good reasons.

Not really how discussions around that topic go down on here. It's basically always "what the base model only has xx GB of storage => that machine is trash, ewaste, obsolete". Literal example in this thread are the replies by @HenrySalayne.

 

4090 example blatantly obviously was an exaggeration from my side, but the gist and general direction is exactly that one. I gave good examples of use cases where people straight out do not require more than 512GB or even 256GB of mass storage on a device that otherwise very much is premium, yet people like your very self state "no premium machine should be sold with that little storage", directly ignoring said use cases and directly implying that anything with less than x GB of storage cannot be premium. And it's exactly that sentiment that bothers me, that people on this forum think they can define what's allowed to be labeled as premium/pro/whatever machine and what cannot.

 

54 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Like all things, if you want to over pay for a ram upgrade then that is your and everyone else's choice, while others can choose to say that is dumb that you have to do that. Freedom of expression, isn't it great 

This whole thing is not about freedom of expression, it's about deciding/stating that everyone buying an entry-level machine is stupid and making a dumb decision, totally ignoring their use case that might seem unreasonable from the point of view of those people. Classic bubble thinking

48 minutes ago, Kisai said:

and would love to be on MacOS if the hardware wasn't so weak.

Not sure where you get the idea that Mac hardware is "weak". The only weak things are the entry-level RAM and storage sizes, everything else is the complete opposite. The former ones can be upgraded - for unreasonable amounts of money, yes, but unless you go for halo max configurations still not outlandish amounts over the expected lifetime of the device, and especially account for the expected resell value.

 

I also don't understand why you throw away an iphone because your charger isn't supported anymore, nor do I get why you think most iphone owners would upgrade every two years with iphones generally being the most long-lived and long-supported smartphones out there.

 

[saltycaramel]

Apple’s goal: make the product so compelling the consumer will get over the price, including the price for upgrades from purposedly “not peace of mind” base specs.

 

Is the consumer being “compelled” somehow being “duped”?

 

Yes and no. 
The compelling aspects are very real and very worth the price of admission. 
 

And some of the profits are reinvested to make even more compellingly amazing products, at the bleeding edge of the industry.

Case in point: the Vision Pro. (pat yourself on the back if by overpaying for storage upgrades and buying iPhones you contributed to the $100B R&D behind that)
 

As a capitalism story, it isn’t that bad. (euphemism, it’s a capitalism success story for the ages and it changed the world)

But cue the armchair experts explaining how it’s done. 

[leadeater]

3 hours ago, Dracarris said:

it's about deciding/stating that everyone buying an entry-level machine is stupid and making a dumb decision, totally ignoring their use case that might seem unreasonable from the point of view of those people. Classic bubble thinking

Nobody is deciding anything about the people, the statement is it's unacceptable for Apple [... finish the rest, cbf lol].

 

It's not about you, anyone else, consumers, it's about Apple.

 

3 hours ago, Dracarris said:

4090 example blatantly obviously was an exaggeration from my side

If you are so willingly prepared to exaggerate then don't get offended when others do i.e. 8GB MacBook Pros are trash ewaste 

 

3 hours ago, Dracarris said:

yet people like your very self state "no premium machine should be sold with that little storage"

I have not said anything about storage capacity, I highly doubt in any Apple topic I ever have beyond NAND module count due to performance and even then in that situation back then my argument was it didn't matter.

 

Just to be really clear about my opinion in regards to devices being marketed and sold as professional premium devices and people like yourself treating them as so and talking them up like they are I have standards and expectations for such a device and that doesn't include them coming with 8GB of ram.

 

And FYI there is a more correct industry term for the people you speak of, Knowledge Worker.

 

Quote

Knowledge workers
Knowledge workers' daily tasks include accessing the Internet, using email, and creating complex documents, presentations, and spreadsheets. Knowledge workers include accountants, sales managers, marketing research analysts, and so on.

About 6GB ram is generally seen as sufficient for this use case.

Edited January 10 by leadeater

[Tan3l6]

250 MB Harddrive:

 

Get 1000x of these in your pocket.

[Dracarris]

14 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Nobody is deciding anything about the people, the statement is it's unacceptable for Apple [... finish the rest, cbf lol].

 

It's not about you, anyone else, consumers, it's about Apple.

Okay, then it's about Apple - the rest of my argument still applies. Who are you to decide or dictate that it's unacceptable for Apple to release such products?

14 minutes ago, leadeater said:

If you are so willingly prepared to exaggerate then don't get offended when others do i.e. 8GB MacBook Pros are trash ewaste 

Yeah, sure. In one case the exaggeration is clearly there, in the other case people actually mean it.

14 minutes ago, leadeater said:

And FYI there is a more correct industry term for the people you speak of, Task Worker or Knowledge Worker.

Cool, I'll note that down, good to know and allows me to shorten my arguments.

So then in conclusion: According to you, Apple is not allowed to sell Macbooks labeled as Premium laptops with 8GB of RAM to Knowledge Workers even though their workload does not require more RAM.

 

I actually agree with that for Macbook Pros, even though a lot of them probably get used without actually requiring more than 8GB. However, Macbook Airs are still very much Premium laptops, and there I definitely do not agree.

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

Okay, then it's about Apple - the rest of my argument still applies. Who are you to decide or dictate that it's unacceptable for Apple to release such products?

Because that is my opinion and you don't have to agree?

 

2 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

So then in conclusion: According to you, Apple is not allowed to sell Macbooks labeled as Premium laptops with 8GB of RAM to Knowledge Workers even though their workload does not require more RAM. And I do not agree with that.

Apple can do whatever they like and I can hold my opinions on whatever it is they do.

[Dracarris]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

Because that is my opinion and you don't have to agree?

Sure. An opinion is one thing. Presenting it as the universal truth and labeling everybody that departs from that, company or consumer, as stupid fools, is much more than an opinion and not okay in my book. That certainly does not apply directly to what you have said here, but it does to other members.

[Kisai]

3 hours ago, Dracarris said:

 

I also don't understand why you throw away an iphone because your charger isn't supported anymore, nor do I get why you think most iphone owners would upgrade every two years with iphones generally being the most long-lived and long-supported smartphones out there.

 

Did you mis-read what I typed. I said, I took the iphone to the Apple store, they replaced the battery, and a few months later Apple rolled out an iOS update, and it would no longer communicate with ANY USB device without approving it on the lock screen, nor charge from one. The only way this was going to power up again is pulling it apart and charging the battery in another device, something I didn't have and wasn't going to do. Apple wasn't selling the 6S anymore and wasn't willing to warranty it. So I was forced to buy a new one. It was only 3 years old. The phone I had before it was a Nokia N95 from 2007! (which meant I used it for 8 years)

 

eWaste. I'm sure I could have given the old one to my mom (and indeed my mom's sister gave her an old iphone 6, last year) had I been able to salvage it. Oh well. I'm not going to lose sleep over it, but it has really pissed me off every time the "apple authenticating hardware" discussion comes up, because this was a specific example of Apple bricking a device through software, despite all authentic parts being used. So I've been extra careful with the XS, because THIS time I'm holding out for USB-C and 5G FR (mmWave), before considering an upgrade. I have no reason to upgrade before then. The XS is 4 years old. By my own rules, I should not upgrade the phone until the iphone until 2028. I do have a use case that would justify getting the 15 Pro now, but I can't justify upgrading a device that isn't my primary computer device that frequently.

 

I'd like to see where the Vision Pro goes with this, but again, I'm not buying it right now, and I might not until I see a use case that would justify buying it and not just upgrading the iphone. I wound up NEVER upgrading the ipad (which is 12 years old) because I just stopped using it after I got the iPhone Xs.

[Dracarris]

5 minutes ago, Kisai said:

Did you mis-read what I typed. I said, I took the iphone to the Apple store, they replaced the battery, and a few months later Apple rolled out an iOS update, and it would no longer communicate with ANY USB device without approving it on the lock screen, nor charge from one. The only way this was going to power up again is pulling it apart and charging the battery in another device, something I didn't have and wasn't going to do. Apple wasn't selling the 6S anymore and wasn't willing to warranty it. So I was forced to buy a new one. It was only 3 years old. The phone I had before it was a Nokia N95 from 2007! (which meant I used it for 8 years)

Okay then I actually misread, although IMHO it also wasn't exactly clearly written. I still don't get how this happened to you. I personally had my 6S from 2015 all the way to 2020 and replaced the battery with an ifixit one all by myself. I never had any SW lockout after any iOS update whatsoever.

[Issac Zachary]

5 hours ago, Kisai said:

*shakes head*

 

No, the thing is, I like Apple products, but the reasons I kept not buying Apple always boiled down to being too bloody weak to do anything useful that I would otherwise still need a second computer for.

The thing is that not everyone is you and I. We both like Apple products yet we keep not buying them. But obviously a lot of other people do.

 

Oddly, my reason for not buying Apple products is quite the opposite. I always feel that they are more powerful than I'll ever need. The games I play work on 10-year-old hardware just fine. And I don't see how added performance helps me use a wordprocessor or a web browser. Computers from the 1990's were able to do that without a problem, any new computer design from today will too. So my thoughts are "why pay more for something that does way more than I need." Well, that, and I have a niche hobby (amateur radio) that is more Windows and Android compatible.

 

But what I do agree on, for me, is that the extra cost for more storage is outrageous.

 

From my personal perspective, an M1 Macbook Air with 8GB of RAM and 1TB of storage (which I feel I need as I have 600GB of content and growing) would cost me some $1,400 and doesn't even come with a free tablet. A Surface Go 3 with a type cover and 1TB SD card costs some $650 and works both as a laptop and a tablet.

[ccnow]

It's important to keep a few things in mind when it comes to info like this.

 

I know it's been said before, but it's worth repeating. This is not a VR headset, it's using augmented reality.

 

Apple likes ot very strongly control the perception of their tools. They don't want this to be considered against something like the Quest 3 or Valve Index. Apple is trying to push AR computing into something new and advance along what they see is the future for the tech. That leads to messaging and branding peculiarities such as Apple communicating to developers that they should not use terminology like AR, or VR to describe their experiences on this hardware, but also decisions like this that can be puzzling. Could Apple have included more onboard storage? Yes, of course they could have. It probably wouldn't have even moved the needle on their price. Sometimes the decision to include less storage is a nudge by Apple trying to control the end user experience. They include less storage which can then nudge developers in the direction Apple wants them to go in terms of software for this device.

[filpo]

4 minutes ago, ccnow said:

I know it's been said before, but it's worth repeating. This is not a VR headset, it's using augmented reality.

 

Apple likes ot very strongly control the perception of their tools. They don't want this to be considered against something like the Quest 3 or Valve Index. Apple is trying to push AR computing into something new and advance along what they see is the future for the tech. That leads to messaging and branding peculiarities such as Apple communicating to developers that they should not use terminology like AR, or VR to describe their experiences on this hardware, but also decisions like this that can be puzzling. Could Apple have included more onboard storage? Yes, of course they could have. It probably wouldn't have even moved the needle on their price. Sometimes the decision to include less storage is a nudge by Apple trying to control the end user experience. They include less storage which can then nudge developers in the direction Apple wants them to go in terms of software for this device.

Are you replying to a specific post in this thread or the original one? If it's the former then quote that post, if it's the latter then noted

 

4 minutes ago, ccnow said:

They include less storage which can then nudge developers in the direction Apple wants them to go in terms of software for this device.

so the application will take up less space which will be beneficial for the user? That's the only reason I can see for this. But is this for all Apple devices or specifically the Vision Pro?

Edited January 10 by filpo

[ccnow]

10 minutes ago, filpo said:

Are you replying to a specific post in this thread or the original one? If it's the former then quote that post, if it's the latter then noted

 

so the application will take up less space which will be beneficial for the user? That's the only reason I can see for this. But is this for all Apple devices or specifically the Vision Pro?

See, the problem with internet discussion around stuff like this is they say things like "which will be beneficial for the user". No, it has nothing to do with the user. It has everything to do with what Apple sees as the use case for the device, and how they see the direction of the market. Imposing restrictions on hardware can force people developing software to not pursue projects you don't want to see on your hardware, and instead to pursue things you want to see.