BD PROCHOT issue (performance issues in game)

[Why-T]

hi , i own a dell g15 5510 gaming laptop that packs an i7 10870h with an RTX3060 , i noticed while playing a new game (the finals) some performance issues , therefore i started investigating . i enabled the msi afterburner overlay to check the temps and clock speeds , where i found the temps to be normal (cpu 60-70) (gpu 50-60) , but the issue is the cpu keeps throttling for some reason , i noticed it droping to 800mhz for 1 sec and then get back to 4.1ghz repeatedly , only to find out in the limits section a BD PROCHOT , i knew that the temps are fine , so i disabled the bdprochot setting from throttle stop which fixed it the new temps are (cpu 70-87) (gpu 60-70). but iam concerned . why does it happen in the firstplace , like it bursts the BD PROCHOT doesnt stay active all the time . only when gaming it happens . and the weird thing . i tried to keep the BD PROCHOT on and disable turbo boost which locked the cpu to its stock clock (2.2ghz) , only to find that performance issues are gone , the temps are low , the BD PROCHOT not happening . the only issue then is iam scarificing cpu potential performance. i did a test for about 10-15min and gathered the log files . hopefully it could lead to something .

2024-01-04.txt

[Somerandomtechyboi]

Just leave bd prochot off

Probably just a faulty sensor or shitty design by the manufacturer

 

@unclewebb is the dev of throttlestop so he can probs give abit more insight to whatevers happening here

[Kilrah]

Usually it's because of VRM/power delivery limits.

[Why-T]

9 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

Usually it's because of VRM/power delivery limits.

is it the VRM temps causing this probably ? how do i check their temps ?

[Kilrah]

Could be temps or current, see if they appear in HwInfo.

[Why-T]

4 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

Could be temps or current, see if they appear in HwInfo.

what are the safe limits for VRM temps on a laptop ?

 

[Why-T]

@unclewebb any idea what could it be , and how to adress this ? if any other test results required , im more than happy to provide them

[Why-T]

update : when i try cpu intensive benchmarks like cinebench , the BD PROCHOT doesnt occur...

[Why-T]

i managed to stress test the entire system using aida64 and no BD PROCHOT occuring 


Any idea ??

 

[unclewebb]

5 hours ago, Kilrah said:

Usually it's because of VRM/power delivery limits.

ThrottleStop will report VR TEMP warnings when the voltage regulators are overheating. It will report VR CURRENT if the voltage regulators are not able to deliver enough current to the CPU. BD PROCHOT throttling is usually separate from anything related to the voltage regulators. 

 

4 hours ago, Why-T said:

any idea what could it be

Manufacturers do not publicly document what sensors can cause BD PROCHOT throttling. Without knowing what is causing this, it is impossible to know if Dell is using this typing of throttling for any legitimate reason or if it is just a faulty sensor as @Somerandomtechyboi suggested.   

 

The throttling is so severe that at times, the CPU is only running at a third of its rated speed. If I paid top dollar for a laptop with a 10870H and was only getting this level of performance, I would be beyond disappointed. 

 

The log file shows when the Nvidia GPU speed decreases at the end of a game, the CPU goes back to running at full speed. 

 

58 minutes ago, Why-T said:

when i try cpu intensive benchmarks like Cinebench , the BD PROCHOT doesnt occur...

Many throttling schemes are tied to the Nvidia GPU being active. Almost as if Dell's design does not provide enough power to run both the CPU and Nvidia GPU at their full rated speed at the same time. When the Nvidia GPU is active and reaches a certain power level, BD PROCHOT throttling is rapidly cycled on and off to throttle the CPU which frees up some power for the Nvidia GPU. 

 

27 minutes ago, Why-T said:

i managed to stress test the entire system using aida64 and no BD PROCHOT occuring 

Your CPU is being throttled to only 2200 MHz during your stress test. Typical Dell. They use a variety of throttling schemes to limit the performance of their laptop computers. This has been going on for 15+ years. Dell is the reason ThrottleStop exists. If you try to fix this throttling then BD PROCHOT throttling will resume. It is like a game of whack a mole. 

 

If it was my laptop, I would clear the BD PROCHOT check box and I would try to fix the other throttling scheme or schemes that Dell are using. Trying to get the performance you paid for is up to you. No one in a forum can guarantee you that trying to run your CPU and GPU at their full rated speed will be safe to do or not.

 

Are you using the original Dell power adapter? Some throttling issues are related to trying to use a charger that is under rated. 

 

I would recommend checking the MMIO Lock box in the TPL window. The MMIO power limit can randomly change and interfere with the performance of your laptop. I would also check the Speed Shift box in the TPL window. 

 

[Why-T]

5 minutes ago, unclewebb said:

ThrottleStop will report VR TEMP warnings when the voltage regulators are overheating. It will report VR CURRENT if the voltage regulators are not able to deliver enough current to the CPU. BD PROCHOT throttling is usually separate from anything related to the voltage regulators. 

 

Manufacturers do not publicly document what sensors can cause BD PROCHOT throttling. Without knowing what is causing this, it is impossible to know if Dell is using this typing of throttling for any legitimate reason or if it is just a faulty sensor as @Somerandomtechyboi suggested.   

 

The throttling is so severe that at times, the CPU is only running at a third of its rated speed. If I paid top dollar for a laptop with a 10870H and was only getting this level of performance, I would be beyond disappointed. 

 

The log file shows when the Nvidia GPU speed decreases at the end of a game, the CPU goes back to running at full speed. 

 

Many throttling schemes are tied to the Nvidia GPU being active. Almost as if Dell's design does not provide enough power to run both the CPU and Nvidia GPU at their full rated speed at the same time. When the Nvidia GPU is active and reaches a certain power level, BD PROCHOT throttling is rapidly cycled on and off to throttle the CPU which frees up some power for the Nvidia GPU. 

 

Your CPU is being throttled to only 2200 MHz during your stress test. Typical Dell. They use a variety of throttling schemes to limit the performance of their laptop computers. This has been going on for 15+ years. Dell is the reason ThrottleStop exists. If you try to fix this throttling then BD PROCHOT throttling will resume. It is like a game of whack a mole. 

 

If it was my laptop, I would clear the BD PROCHOT check box and I would try to fix the other throttling scheme or schemes that Dell are using. Trying to get the performance you paid for is up to you. No one in a forum can guarantee you that trying to run your CPU and GPU at their full rated speed will be safe to do or not.

 

Are you using the original Dell power adapter? Some throttling issues are related to trying to use a charger that is under rated. 

thanks for responding , as of the power adapter the shop that sold it to me told me it is an original power adapter , but to remove ambiguity , i have a spare dell g15 original power adapter (both of them are rate 240w) i can use , and reach back to you . as of the thermal throtling scheme , what can i do ? 

[unclewebb]

5 minutes ago, Why-T said:

thermal throtling

Your computer is not thermal throttling. It is BD PROCHOT throttling. Always run ThrottleStop and always leave that box clear. 

 

After checking the MMIO Lock box and the Speed Shift box, do another test. Play a game for 15 minutes and run another log file. Fully loading the CPU and GPU with AIDA64 is overkill for your laptop. 

[Somerandomtechyboi]

7 minutes ago, unclewebb said:

The throttling is so severe that at times, the CPU is only running at a third of its rated speed. If I paid top dollar for a laptop with a 10870H and was only getting this level of performance, I would be beyond disappointed. 

^^^

Exactly why i wont bother with gaming laptops and whatnot

 

If i really wanted gaming performance in a laptop id just go for a ryzen apu instead like the 7840u/hs

[Why-T]

18 minutes ago, unclewebb said:

Your computer is not thermal throttling. It is BD PROCHOT throttling. Always run ThrottleStop and always leave that box clear. 

 

After checking the MMIO Lock box and the Speed Shift box, do another test. Play a game for 15 minutes and run another log file. Fully loading the CPU and GPU with AIDA64 is overkill for your laptop. 

here is the update , i managed to capture new logs . the test was done with another 100% authentic dell power adapter
with MMIO locked , and speed shift box checked.
 

2024-01-04.txt

[unclewebb]

27 minutes ago, Why-T said:

MMIO locked , and speed shift box checked

Your screenshot shows that you still have the BD PROCHOT box checked. Why?

 

The log file still shows BD PROCHOT throttling and a CPU not running anywhere close to its full rated speed. 

 

Delete your previous log file before doing anymore testing. 

 

There is no need to check the Speed Shift EPP box on the main screen. Clear this box and Windows will manage the EPP value.

[Why-T]

Just now, unclewebb said:

Your screenshot shows that you still have the BD PROCHOT box checked. Why?

 

The log file still shows BD PROCHOT throttling and a CPU not running anywhere close to its full rated speed. 

 

Delete your previous log file before doing anymore testing. 

wasnt the point of the test to see wether doing the MMIO lock and the speed shift going to stop BD PROCHOT without forcing it ? 

in that case let me renew the test and get a better picture on this issue , ill provide you with more informations

[Why-T]

20 minutes ago, unclewebb said:

Your screenshot shows that you still have the BD PROCHOT box checked. Why?

 

The log file still shows BD PROCHOT throttling and a CPU not running anywhere close to its full rated speed. 

 

Delete your previous log file before doing anymore testing. 

 

There is no need to check the Speed Shift EPP box on the main screen. Clear this box and Windows will manage the EPP value.

here are the new test results , i noticed that the cpu was super hot this time . any comment on these results ?

2024-01-04.txt

[Why-T]

btw , what does MMIO do ? , cuz earlier i did perform a test with only the BD PROCHOT off , the test results were that the cpu performs really well , the gpu aswell performs really good . the temps were around (75-85) , and the cpu thermal throttled when the cpu temp reached 90 to (3.7ghz - 3.6ghz)  where it stabilized in (78-83)

[unclewebb]

Why did you turn off Nvidia GPU monitoring. Knowing how hot your GPU is getting is important to know when testing.

 

36 minutes ago, Why-T said:

the cpu was super hot

After disabling all of the unnecessary throttling, your CPU can finally run at its full rated speed which is 4000 MHz when playing a game. A fast CPU will run much hotter than a slow CPU. Dell should have used a bigger and more robust cooling solution to dissipate the heat a 10870H can produce. Instead, Dell decided to cut corners. Their engineering team dreamed up some throttling schemes to try to keep the CPU at a reasonable temperature. 

 

Imagine buying a high performance car. Instead of a manufacturer including an adequate radiator to keep the engine cool, they decide to disable half of the engine. Pay for a V8 but at full throttle, only 4 of the cylinders work. Any auto manufacturer would get roasted in the press for doing something cheesy like this. Dell is basically doing the same thing but worse. Your laptop has been deliberately designed so you cannot use the CPU at its full rated speed. Instead of running at 4000 MHz, your performance CPU in game limps along at 1300 MHz because of throttling.  

 

When you disable all of the throttling and your CPU can finally run at its full rated speed, it is going to get very hot. The cooling is inadequate to run the CPU and GPU at their full rated speed. The log file shows some thermal throttling but at least it is not doing any other unnecessary throttling.

 

If you do not want your CPU constantly running at 100°C then lower the turbo power limits to however much cooling you have available. If you have never cleaned out your laptop, now would be a good time. If you decide to replace the thermal paste, try using Honeywell PTM 7950. A lot of popular thermal pastes do not work very well long term when applied direct die to a mobile CPU.

 

For power limits, in the TPL window clear the Disable Controls check box. Set Long Power PL1 to about 60W, Short Power PL2 to about 80W and reduce the turbo time limit to about 8 seconds. This will cause power limit throttling which will reduce performance. A slight performance loss is better than Dell constantly forcing your CPU down to 800 MHz.  

 

6 minutes ago, Why-T said:

what does MMIO do ?

Checking MMIO Lock disables the secondary set of turbo power limits. They are not necessary. By disabling the MMIO power limits, you can use the MSR turbo power limits to fully control your CPU. 

 

I noticed in some of your screenshots that PROCHOT was set to only 90°C while one screenshot shows the proper 100°C. Did you change the PROCHOT Offset value in the Options window? I would set PROCHOT Offset to 0, the Intel recommended value, and I would check the Lock PROCHOT Offset box to make sure this value does not randomly change. 

[Why-T]

24 minutes ago, unclewebb said:

Why did you turn off Nvidia GPU monitoring. Knowing how hot your GPU is getting is important to know when testing.

 

After disabling all of the unnecessary throttling, your CPU can finally run at its full rated speed which is 4000 MHz when playing a game. A fast CPU will run much hotter than a slow CPU. Dell should have used a bigger and more robust cooling solution to dissipate the heat a 10870H can produce. Instead, Dell decided to cut corners. Their engineering team dreamed up some throttling schemes to try to keep the CPU at a reasonable temperature. 

 

Imagine buying a high performance car. Instead of a manufacturer including an adequate radiator to keep the engine cool, they decide to disable half of the engine. Pay for a V8 but at full throttle, only 4 of the cylinders work. Any auto manufacturer would get roasted in the press for doing something cheesy like this. Dell is basically doing the same thing but worse. Your laptop has been deliberately designed so you cannot use the CPU at its full rated speed. Instead of running at 4000 MHz, your performance CPU in game limps along at 1300 MHz because of throttling.  

 

When you disable all of the throttling and your CPU can finally run at its full rated speed, it is going to get very hot. The cooling is inadequate to run the CPU and GPU at their full rated speed. The log file shows some thermal throttling but at least it is not doing any other unnecessary throttling.

 

If you do not want your CPU constantly running at 100°C then lower the turbo power limits to however much cooling you have available. If you have never cleaned out your laptop, now would be a good time. If you decide to replace the thermal paste, try using Honeywell PTM 7950. A lot of popular thermal pastes do not work very well long term when applied direct die to a mobile CPU.

 

For power limits, in the TPL window clear the Disable Controls check box. Set Long Power PL1 to about 60W, Short Power PL2 to about 80W and reduce the turbo time limit to about 8 seconds. This will cause power limit throttling which will reduce performance. A slight performance loss is better than Dell constantly forcing your CPU down to 800 MHz.  

 

Checking MMIO Lock disables the secondary set of turbo power limits. They are not necessary. By disabling the MMIO power limits, you can use the MSR turbo power limits to fully control your CPU. 

 

I noticed in some of your screenshots that PROCHOT was set to only 90°C while one screenshot shows the proper 100°C. Did you change the PROCHOT Offset value in the Options window? I would set PROCHOT Offset to 0, the Intel recommended value, and I would check the Lock PROCHOT Offset box to make sure this value does not randomly change. 

thanks for the explication , as far as i understood . the cpu will try to throttle lightly and not waste huge amount of performance due to custom power limits rather than it throttling to thermal reasons , anyways 

Quote

I noticed in some of your screenshots that PROCHOT was set to only 90°C while one screenshot shows the proper 100°C. Did you change the PROCHOT Offset value in the Options window? I would set PROCHOT Offset to 0, the Intel recommended value, and I would check the Lock PROCHOT Offset box to make sure this value does not randomly change.

i didnt change the PROCHOT value , it must have changed automatically ... 

check these , are they correct ? any other value should be changed ? 

and what if i restart the pc ? would it be gone , and should i reapply these settings each time after boot ?
 

should i keep the DB PROCHOT unchecked or should i check it  ?

and do i have to open throttlestop each time i restart my pc ?

walk me through this please
 

 

Edited January 4 by Why-T

[unclewebb]

1 hour ago, Why-T said:

i didnt change the PROCHOT value , it must have changed automatically ... 

If you did not do this then open the Options window, set PROCHOT Offset to 0 and check the Lock PROCHOT Offset box. This will prevent any software on your computer from changing the thermal throttling temperature. Your screenshot of the Options window shows that you have already done this. Good.

 

1 hour ago, Why-T said:

what if i restart the pc ?

If you want ThrottleStop to manage your CPU, you have to start ThrottleStop each time you start your computer. I would recommend to leave ThrottleStop running, minimized to the bottom right system tray / notification area. It uses very little CPU or memory resources when minimized like this.

 

Use the Task Scheduler to start ThrottleStop when you log into your Windows account. Here is a guide.

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/effective-clock-speed.293296/#post-4749675

 

The BD PROCHOT box should always be clear. The amount of BD PROCHOT throttling that Dell is doing is excessive and unnecessary. Adjust the MSR turbo power limits to control how much power and how much heat your computer puts out. Dell constantly trying to throttle a 4000 MHz CPU to as little as 1300 MHz during a game is beyond stupid design. 

 

Check the Speed Shift box in the TPL window. This tells ThrottleStop to monitor the Speed Shift Max value so it does not randomly change. 

 

Did you try using your computer and playing a game with the power limits set to 60 and 80? Those were just two numbers off the top of my head that I think will work OK. Does limiting the power like this provide the compromise you are looking for to balance heat vs performance? Does your laptop play games smoother when the CPU is running at close to its rated speed? I hope so. 

 

I usually do not check the Lock box in the Power Limit Controls section. If you leave the MSR power limits unlocked, you can make changes to the MSR power limits without having to reboot. When the MSR power limits are locked, you will need to first clear the Lock box and then you will need to reboot if you wish to make any changes. I find that locking the MSR power limits is more of a hassle if you want to make any changes. Locking the MMIO power limits are always recommended. You only need to lock the MSR power limits if your computer is randomly changing the MSR power limits which most computers do not do. 

 

No matter what feature you use or do not use in ThrottleStop, if your CPU ever gets too hot, it will still thermal throttle to protect against any damage. You cannot use ThrottleStop to disable thermal throttling. 

[Why-T]

3 minutes ago, unclewebb said:

If you did not do this then open the Options window, set PROCHOT Offset to 0 and check the Lock PROCHOT Offset box. This will prevent any software on your computer from changing the thermal throttling temperature. Your screenshot of the Options window shows that you have already done this. Good.

 

If you want ThrottleStop to manage your CPU, you have to start ThrottleStop each time you start your computer. I would recommend to leave ThrottleStop running, minimized to the bottom right system tray / notification area. It uses very little CPU or memory resources when minimized like this.

 

Use the Task Scheduler to start ThrottleStop when you log into your Windows account. Here is a guide.

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/effective-clock-speed.293296/#post-4749675

 

The BD PROCHOT box should always be clear. The amount of BD PROCHOT throttling that Dell is doing is excessive and unnecessary. Adjust the MSR turbo power limits to control how much power and how much heat your computer puts out. Dell constantly trying to throttle a 4000 MHz CPU to as little as 1300 MHz during a game is beyond stupid design. 

 

Check the Speed Shift box in the TPL window. This tells ThrottleStop to monitor the Speed Shift Max value so it does not randomly change. 

 

Did you try using your computer and playing a game with the power limits set to 60 and 80? Those were just two numbers off the top of my head that I think will work OK. Does limiting the power like this provide the compromise you are looking for to balance heat vs performance? Does your laptop play games smoother when the CPU is running at close to its rated speed? I hope so. 

 

I usually do not check the Lock box in the Power Limit Controls section. If you leave the MSR power limits unlocked, you can make changes to the MSR power limits without having to reboot. When the MSR power limits are locked, you will need to first clear the Lock box and then you will need to reboot if you wish to make any changes. I find that locking the MSR power limits is more of a hassle if you want to make any changes. Locking the MMIO power limits are always recommended. You only need to lock the MSR power limits if your computer is randomly changing the MSR power limits which most computers do not do. 

 

 

after setting the power limits to 60 / 80 the performance is more stable , the temps are good , i noticed the cpu lowers its clock speed now to 3.6 / 3.7 ghz when the temps are (80-85) , when they are lower than 75 the cpu boosts to (4000 - 4100 mhz ) which is good , i have now one other information that i have to add , i have this laptop which is a dell g15 5510 and i have another one which is a dell g15 5511 that has an i7 11800h . i noticed that the stupid dell , does not throttle the i7 11800h properly , yes it doesnt have no BD PROCHOT but , the temps are crazy high ! almost 100 degrees permanently when playing  cpu heavy games . besides that . the question is why the g15 5510 get the BD PROCHOT and the g15 5511 doesn't ? and is there a way to disable the BD PROCHOT from bios ?

 

[unclewebb]

1 hour ago, Why-T said:

there a way to disable the BD PROCHOT from bios ?

It is rare for any laptop computer to have that option in the BIOS. Dell laptops never have that option. Dell designs their laptops to throttle.

 

1 hour ago, Why-T said:

almost 100 degrees

That is the normal maximum operating temperature. Modern laptops run hot when playing games.

 

No one knows what throttling schemes Dell uses on what laptop model. I don't think the people at Dell answering the phones ever get to know this top secret information. 

 

Use ThrottleStop to adjust the turbo power limits and the Speed Shift Max value and you can run an Intel laptop however you like. If you want a little more performance, try setting PL1 to 65W instead of 60W.

[Why-T]

 

15 hours ago, unclewebb said:

It is rare for any laptop computer to have that option in the BIOS. Dell laptops never have that option. Dell designs their laptops to throttle.

 

That is the normal maximum operating temperature. Modern laptops run hot when playing games.

 

No one knows what throttling schemes Dell uses on what laptop model. I don't think the people at Dell answering the phones ever get to know this top secret information. 

 

Use ThrottleStop to adjust the turbo power limits and the Speed Shift Max value and you can run an Intel laptop however you like. If you want a little more performance, try setting PL1 to 65W instead of 60W.

update , i found some weird stuff going on , i noticed in the dell power management software that there is multiple thermal and performance setting , i did set it to ultra performance , when i restart the pc it gets back to the cool option , i tried to set it to optimized , same thing when i restart it resets back to cool. i went to windows power management in control panel and i found out there is only one mode there which is balanced , i went to the dell BIOS under power settings i found the same settings as the dell power management software , i tried to set it to ultra performance ,  save it and exit , when i restart the pc and i check in the bios i found it reset to the cool value... only when i use the G performance mode (which can be enabled only from pressing the G performance mode button on the laptops keyboard) the ultra performance mode is used, now it started to clear up that BD PROCHOT issue (in my case) is not caused from a faulty sensor , but more like from a stupid dell software interfering with everything , any idea how to fix this ? should i reinstall the bios and reset windows ? btw im using windows 10 , should i upgrade it in hope for any compatibility issues to be fixed ? (thanks alot for your help man i rly do appreciate it)


edit : ( I noticed something weird again in my bios overview) check this , the maximum clock speed of the cpu is set to 2.2ghz meanwhile it should be set to 5.0ghz , that doesnt make any sense !  any comments ??

i tried to add more pictures of the bios settings so you could get a rough understanding about the situation ....

 

[Why-T]

@unclewebb thats weird right ?