This CPU is FREE!

[TannerMcCoolman]

Who doesn’t like a free CPU? The answer is a bit more complicated than you’re imagining. This computer might look small and unassuming, but inside it is a motherboard you’ve never seen before, a 64-core processor unlike anything you currently own, and the technology behind it could have far reaching geopolitical implications in the very near future. It is the subject of trade sanctions, stock dumps, and could lead us into the next technology-fueled cold war. But can it game?

Check out the Milk-V Pioneer: https://milkv.io/pioneer

[CoolJosh3k]

0:25 seconds seems to me like they are advertising the 3D accelerated game as part of this CPU, yet at 1:22 show it has a GPU in the system.

[JamesTheFolf]

Wow this is crazy, a lot of the stuff about this chip is stuff I've learned in my microcomputers class this year haha. RISC is a very cool architecture, I might have to get a board and play around with it some. Just to see how it all works, and as a cool prototyping board.

[DANK_AS_gay]

57 minutes ago, CoolJosh3k said:

0:25 seconds seems to me like they are advertising the 3D accelerated game as part of this CPU, yet at 1:22 show it has a GPU in the system.

Hear me out, what if, there was a system of components, that ALL are necessary for the system to work. And, you decided to make a video about one of the parts. And you need a demo that will use all of the parts. One that a wide audience can identify with. Would a game work?

[JonnyH]

16:15 - "GPU startup Imagination Technologies". Oof, as someone who worked there a good few years back, that pains me

 

Imagination Technologies is the parent company of PowerVR, which was renamed from Videologic, who were making graphics cards before Nvidia was founded. For consumers, they did the old Kyro graphics cards in the 90s, the Sega Dreamcast*, and the GPU designs that the Apple M3 and A17 chips still derive from to this day (At least they still pay them for licenses to their tech, if they no longer take complete core designs).

 

And it looks like they're the ones supplying the Ventana Veyron V2 GPU mentioned immediately before, in fact the screenshot for that is even of a press release talking about Imagination Technologies' partnership with Ventana. Seems a bit of an odd phrasing to mention that as if it's separate.

 

* edited - I had a brain fart and initially said Sega Saturn

[FlyingPotato_is_taken]

Hey LMG. The next time you see those "dust covers":

 

Ask your electronics guy what they truly are.

[CoolJosh3k]

37 minutes ago, DANK_AS_gay said:

Hear me out, what if, there was a system of components, that ALL are necessary for the system to work. And, you decided to make a video about one of the parts. And you need a demo that will use all of the parts. One that a wide audience can identify with. Would a game work?

My question is about how the short intro is portraying the 3D graphics. It feels to me like some people would believe that to be running on the CPU, even though it says “accelerated” and would be part of a whole system. A tiny text disclaimer of “dedicated graphics card needed” with that moment would have be nice, in my opinion.

 

I feel it should have a little note saying there is no integrated graphics, since the part that would detail the clear lack of integrated graphics comes later in the video, after the sponsor segment.

 

I agree that it is demonstrating the system as a whole, but I feel like the focus is on the CPU and the “system as a whole” has yet to be discussed at that point. They showed 3D graphics with the only indication that a dedicated graphics card was necessary, for the system to work, was the term “3D accelerated graphics”, which I presume a significant enough portion of the audience wouldn’t understand the true meaning of.

[digimbyte]

41 minutes ago, CoolJosh3k said:

My question is about how the short intro is portraying the 3D graphics. It feels to me like some people would believe that to be running on the CPU, even though it says “accelerated” and would be part of a whole system. A tiny text disclaimer of “dedicated graphics card needed” with that moment would have be nice, in my opinion.

This is because a game has a CPU instruction layer component, without it, any GPU layer would not function.
games are more than just realtime graphics, they have complex calculations that showcase batching, multi-threading, and physics calculation.
 

[DANK_AS_gay]

56 minutes ago, CoolJosh3k said:

My question is about how the short intro is portraying the 3D graphics. It feels to me like some people would believe that to be running on the CPU, even though it says “accelerated” and would be part of a whole system. A tiny text disclaimer of “dedicated graphics card needed” with that moment would have be nice, in my opinion.

 

I feel it should have a little note saying there is no integrated graphics, since the part that would detail the clear lack of integrated graphics comes later in the video, after the sponsor segment.

 

I agree that it is demonstrating the system as a whole, but I feel like the focus is on the CPU and the “system as a whole” has yet to be discussed at that point. They showed 3D graphics with the only indication that a dedicated graphics card was necessary, for the system to work, was the term “3D accelerated graphics”, which I presume a significant enough portion of the audience wouldn’t understand the true meaning of.

Games haven't been rendered on the CPU for like over 25 years at this point. They are just showing a demonstration that appeals to the audience of LTT. The beginning of the video is just a teaser for what's to come after the sponsor segment, at which point they go into detail. 

[Anfros]

1 hour ago, digimbyte said:

This is because a game has a CPU instruction layer component, without it, any GPU layer would not function.
games are more than just realtime graphics, they have complex calculations that showcase batching, multi-threading, and physics calculation.
 

Not only that, the instructions for how to render the graphics are calculated on the CPU. When I did a computer graphics course we spent just as much time writing regular cpu instructions as we did actually writing shaders, etc. for the GPU.

[Terax6669]

So they learned nothing from the break after all. Took them 1s to straight out lie in the video.

I went back and double checked but Linus does in fact say "this computer", not "CPU". And later they show ARM controllers on the board anyway. I assume there are other components like the SSD controller or the GPU that also potentially don't match this description.

 

I was also bamboozled into thinking it has an integrated GPU... logical conclusion after such a bold opening statement and seeing the crappy performance of a 20-year old OpenGL game.

 

I don't get it. Are people hyped for it for some reason? It's hardly news and seeing fake Linus enthusiasm puts me off RISK if anything. Why would I care? It has no consumer applications AFAIK. "could" doesn't matter, same principle as "don't preorder". This video was the final nail for me. I've tried for years to convince myself that clickbait was "necessary" and they apply the required minimum to keep growing. But the quiet voice in the back of my head was right the entire time. LTT has been soaked in clickbait crap. It's the way they do things now. Not just thumbnails or titles. Disenchantment. I can no longer rationalize the hypocrisy.

 

IDK why we got this piece of garbage. Lack of ideas? I know I'm the minority, but I would've gladly watched the video if I wasn't clickbaited into it. I also would've enjoyed this look on RISC if it was genuine and contained actual information rather than some fake slogans that are supposed to generate hype. Video goes off rails to installing steam... which never happens. The entire video seems like it's been put together from mismatched pieces and failed attempts.

[will0hlep]

There were a few parts of this video that didn't feel like it hit the mark, but for me the importnant issue is the title which feels dishonest. That said, RISCV is not the most "sexy" subject and quite hard to create clickable but not clickbaity titles for.

 

I realise that mentioning RISC-V in the title probably dosn't pull in the average viewer. I would have maybe suggested "Is this the future of CPUs?" with pictures of the CPU and RISC-V logo in the thumbnail, but it isn't much better than the one that was selected in avoiding being clickbaity.

[RunnerUp]

5 hours ago, FlyingPotato_is_taken said:

Hey LMG. The next time you see those "dust covers":

 

 

Ask your electronics guy what they truly are.

He clearly said Milk called them "dust covers" and his implication was that it didn't make sense to him aka he doesn't think they are "dust covers".

[zweilinkehaende]

Really interesting video. This is the kind of stuff that i wish we could see every day. (Both in terms of type of content and innovation) Obviously thats impossible, but i do love the video and am happy every time this kind of video gets posted.

 

Feedback:

 

1.: Why did we not see the cooler removal? Did Linus (or somebody else) remove the cooler and was the photo of the CPU made by you, or did you use a photo by somebody else? If you took the photo, why didn't you get a shot of the full removal process? Giving an explanaition, even just a short text on screen, would make the video look more polished, this way it was a little jarring, i kept waiting for that shot and wondering about that editing choice in the back of my mind for the rest of the video.

 

2.: I like the design choice of the animated greenscreen background with the LTT logo, it works well for extended explaination segments. But even at 4K, the compression on youtube does kinda butcher the effect though, so it looks a little cheap and ugly. The circles look more like wobbling eggs decaying into LTT logos IMO. (At least at 4K on a 4K display, might look fine at 4K on lower resolutions) I don't care that much and if i did i could always subscribe to flyboat, but it could hurt the video's performance on Youtube and i want to see this kind of video do well, so more of it's kind get made.

 

These two things make the video feel like it could be better if you put in a little more effort, even though you obviously put a lot of effort into it already. Here the presentation does the rest of the video a disservice.

 

3.: For the sake of "evergreen-ness" and out of personal preference i would prefer a little more technical detail. Perhaps an Alex/Riley + whiteboard/animation segment. (Something like: Complex instruction does X on x86, but needs to be done in Y simpler steps of A-, B-, and C-type operations on RISC-architectures) I would also have loved to see a very simple real world test. Writing a very simple FOR loop that adds/subtracts/multiplies numbers, times itself and takes ~30 seconds on a modern mid-range CPU (or one with comparable transistor size and same clockspeed) to complete. I assume we would see similar scaling to the one in gaming, but maybe not, since the instructions would be so simple. Would be more interesting than seeing games, with to me unknown performance and scaling characteristics, barely run, or a screenshot of a benchmark score IMO. So if you wanted to keep the runtime the same you could reduce that segment and perhaps the politics segment a bit. The politics segment is obviously very relevant to USamericans and industry insiders right now, but is comparatively detailed and loses relevance over time, while technical explanaitions will stay relevant as long as RISC-V and x86 are relevant.

 

Overall it's a great video and you definitely renewed my interest in tech innovation in the field of chip design. This motivated me to read the wikipedia article on RISC-V again and read up further on the state of development for it, even though it doesn't effect me personally at all until it becomes a serious competitor to ARM and x86 in the consumer space.

 

The video does a great job of stoking interest but leaves me unsatisfied on the details and made me search for more in depth content on the subject. If stoking interest is what this video was aiming to do, it's perfect; but i feel like this video itself, a followup video, or a "TechNotAsQuickie" could satisfy the curiosity resulting from that interest better than most other content on the internet.

[zweilinkehaende]

2 hours ago, Terax6669 said:

So they learned nothing from the break after all. Took them 1s to straight out lie in the video.

I went back and double checked but Linus does in fact say "this computer", not "CPU". And later they show ARM controllers on the board anyway. I assume there are other components like the SSD controller or the GPU that also potentially don't match this description.

 

I was also bamboozled into thinking it has an integrated GPU... logical conclusion after such a bold opening statement and seeing the crappy performance of a 20-year old OpenGL game.

 

I don't get it. Are people hyped for it for some reason? It's hardly news and seeing fake Linus enthusiasm puts me off RISK if anything. Why would I care? It has no consumer applications AFAIK. "could" doesn't matter, same principle as "don't preorder". This video was the final nail for me. I've tried for years to convince myself that clickbait was "necessary" and they apply the required minimum to keep growing. But the quiet voice in the back of my head was right the entire time. LTT has been soaked in clickbait crap. It's the way they do things now. Not just thumbnails or titles. Disenchantment. I can no longer rationalize the hypocrisy.

 

IDK why we got this piece of garbage. Lack of ideas? I know I'm the minority, but I would've gladly watched the video if I wasn't clickbaited into it. I also would've enjoyed this look on RISC if it was genuine and contained actual information rather than some fake slogans that are supposed to generate hype. Video goes off rails to installing steam... which never happens. The entire video seems like it's been put together from mismatched pieces and failed attempts.

It's kinda click-baitey, but i feel like it is an acceptable level. Nothing is free, so saying "This CPU is FREE!" obviously implies either freedom (like the "freedom phone") or licencing fees.

 

It's more on the technical side, but to me the topic is WAY more interesting than seeing the 27th Wish-/AmazonBasics-/Temu-/Alibaba-/Taobao-Setup. This is a video for the tech nerd part of the audience, not necessarily the gamer consumers. They barely talk about the computer itself so they clearly don't imply that anyone should go out and buy one. This is a technology showcase about an industry trend that will in all likelihood reshape the whole tech sector in the coming years. I agree that they should have cut more of the gaming side, but they try to get their gaming audience into the video too, which i can understand, even though i disagree with the choice.

 

Also, saying

2 hours ago, Terax6669 said:

Took them 1s to straight out lie in the video. I went back and double checked but Linus does in fact say "this computer", not "CPU".

and omitting that Linus qualifies the statement about it being free as "the IDEA behind it is free", is kinda rich. This is clearly a developer kit type of product and the IDEA behind IT is the CPU's architecture and design and the CPU itself respectively. They could have spelt it out for you, but text disclaimers or voice lines addressing that would make the video less enjoyable to watch for me.

 

You seem to have missed the point of the video, which one could argue is an indicator of the video's quality, but most of your complaints seems to stem from a misunderstanding on your part that not many people share.

[Aasimar]

I think some of ya'll are being a little melodramatic here. The issue "before" was in regards to their benchmarking, they've always used clickbaity titles; that's what youtube's algorithem wants, engagements. This is not new and it's something most large channels do to get you to click.

Seeing as it was about RISC-V it immediately clicked in my head that the "free" was in regards to RISC-5 being open source.

[ToboRobot]

"google apple or Huawei"

didn't think i'd see those names mentioned like that.  bold.

[FlyingPotato_is_taken]

5 hours ago, RunnerUp said:

He clearly said Milk called them "dust covers" and his implication was that it didn't make sense to him aka he doesn't think they are "dust covers".

Seconds before calling them strange. 

Asking the manufactures about it means they had no clue what they could be. MilkV calling them dust covers is ... bad.

 

For those who don't know:

Those plastic plugs are there for the pick and place process. Normally they are removed before a product is shipped. 

[2dfx]

16:15 "GPU Startup Imagination Technologies" LOL.  Tell me you didn't research this company without telling me you didn't research this company.

 

These homies brought you Kyro and Kyro 2.  TILE BASED RENDERING!!!!  "Hey we don't need hardware T&L but TILE BASED RENDERING!!!"

[Slizzo]

1 hour ago, 2dfx said:

16:15 "GPU Startup Imagination Technologies" LOL.  Tell me you didn't research this company without telling me you didn't research this company.

 

These homies brought you Kyro and Kyro 2.  TILE BASED RENDERING!!!!  "Hey we don't need hardware T&L but TILE BASED RENDERING!!!"

Not only tile based rendering, but rendering dependent on the POV of the camera/ i.e. object occlusion.

[05032-Mendicant-Bias]

I vehemently oppose mentioning Ant in a somewhat positive light.

 

Everything, EVERYTHING they built is E-Waste. Right now it's E-Waste that also burns humongous amount of energy.

Here a steamroller destroying Bitcoin miners after their national power grid got destabilized by Bitcoin mining.

  

14 hours ago, CoolJosh3k said:

0:25 seconds seems to me like they are advertising the 3D accelerated game as part of this CPU, yet at 1:22 show it has a GPU in the system.

Figuring out the Risc-V Linux driver for an AMD GPU is impressive, as is impressive that the processor has enough troughput to keep the GPU fed.

X86 CPUs from AMD and Intel are incredibly complex superscalar designs. They do fancy stuff like reordering instructions, and have a deep pipeline in the execution units and the decoders, which is really, really hard to keep from stalling.

 

ARM processors are universally weaker per core, but more power efficient. Risc-V is similar to ARM, but they started from a clean slate and is a very clean and scalable instruction set. The two are similar, I like Risc-V more because of lack of licensing and because of the cleaner ISA.

 

Power efficiency comes mostly from the instruction decoder, that is a lot smaller and simpler to make in RISC. It also makes the core use fewer transistors and silicon making it cheaper.

 

Slowness of single core performance is because you need more instruction to do the same, so they tend to be limited by the streaming of instructions into the decoder and by the graduation and retirement queues. They also need more cache for the instructions.

 

To compensate for the slower cores manufacturers integrate accelerators. The hard work of figuring out a deep pipeline that does not stall on generic code is daunting. X86 have had thirty years to work out how to make those pipelines.

 

All this long winded comment to say it's impressive to pair a RiscV processor to a discrete GPU because a lot of things have been figured out to get there, like DMA, PCI-E, drivers, OS, etc...

 

Risc-V is about the Instruction Set Architecture of the CPU, it doesn't specify anything about GPU acceleration. If you have PCI, you can connect anything, provided you make the driver, and that's the impressive part of the computer Linus showed. It's surprisingly close to a working Desktop based on a Risc-V processor and OS.

 

[IN-Techie]

Anyone know what case is used for this computer? Milkv just lists it on their site as "white slim PC enclosure with handle". I want to look at it as an option for a portable build I am doing. 

[CoolJosh3k]

15 hours ago, DANK_AS_gay said:

Games haven't been rendered on the CPU for like over 25 years at this point. They are just showing a demonstration that appeals to the audience of LTT. The beginning of the video is just a teaser for what's to come after the sponsor segment, at which point they go into detail. 

I should have more specific and said APU or integrated graphics.

[TannerMcCoolman]

1 hour ago, IN-Techie said:

Anyone know what case is used for this computer? Milkv just lists it on their site as "white slim PC enclosure with handle". I want to look at it as an option for a portable build I am doing. 

SGPC-K99 Lite

[Olgyd]

I'd like to congratulate Linus for finally ameliorating with Linux.

 

20 hours ago, Terax6669 said:

So they learned nothing from the break after all. Took them 1s to straight out lie in the video.

I went back and double checked but Linus does in fact say "this computer", not "CPU". And later they show ARM controllers on the board anyway. I assume there are other components like the SSD controller or the GPU that also potentially don't match this description.

Wow, somebody's triggered.

For people interested in new hardware and/or open source, this is exciting development, and seeing RISC-V written in the thumbnail made it quite clear (for me anyway) that the video is about the CPU - ironic, given you ranted about them being clickbaity, but I guess that's the curse of knowledge for you.

 

20 hours ago, Terax6669 said:

I would've gladly watched the video if I wasn't clickbaited into it.

I feel like you wouldn't. You're coming off incredibly salty and sour-grapey here with your attempted declarations that RISC-V is just some lame overhyped project.