What should I choose, big air cooler or 240mm AIO?

[almog]

Hey guys,

 

I'm in an "excrutiating" doubt here and some help would be very much appreciated. Realy don't know where to go from here.

I use my computer 95% of the time for work (architecture and interior design, 2D and 3D designs) and 5% of the time for gaming (it's been a while). The issue I'm dealing since the day I bought/built my PC is with noise when rendering 3D images (CPU render). It's really disturbing. I'm moving towards GPU rendering because of render times but CPU will still be used for final images sent to the clients.

Also my PC sits under my desk and where I live it usually goes around 35ºC (95ºF) in the Summer. Sometimes temperatures go near 40ºC (105ºF) but it's kind of impossible to work in those situations. Winter temperatures remain between 15-25ºC (60-75ºF) during the day and the computer helps heat the room during the night when it falls around 5ºC (40ºF) on a cold day. Of course temperatures inside my house are not that extreme but I don't have AC in the room. Thus not turning under the desk like hell temperatures are a must.

I don't overclock, and RGB is not a thing I care about...

Possibilities are:

1 - Air Cooling:

     - 2 existing fans: 120mm Corsair (1 in - 1 exhaust)

     - 2 new fans front mount (in): Cooler Master 120mm Sickleflow
     - Air Cooler Pichau Darkstar Extreme (https://www.pichau.com.br/cooler-para-processador-pichau-darkstar-p1-extreme-130mm-preto-pg-dks-x01blk). Brand is not famous and probably uses rebranded generic parts made in China.

2 - Water Cooling AIO:

     - 2 existing fans: 120mm Corsair (1 in - 1 exhaust)

     - Deep Cool Castle v2 RGB 240 (https://pt.deepcool.com/products/Cooling/cpuliquidcoolers/2021/13234.shtml) front mounted for positive pressure inside the case. Due to costs at the moment I won't buy extra fans in the near future if I opt for water cooling.

 

So... considering this, what would you choose?

Considering that noise is as important or even a bit more than temperatures at the CPU.

 

Would you worry about VRM temperatures by going with the AIO and reducing airflow inside the case?

 

I have untill next Monday to choose and take the computer somewhere for someone to clean it and replace the cooler I have today. I have read that AMD processors sometimes come out of the motherboard when removing the cooler and I really can't afford changing the processor or the motherboard, or both at this time.

Temperatures today are around 23ºC (73ºF) and you can see in the images what's happening now. I can easily hear the CPU fan.

Thank you all, and sorry for any language mistakes...
Cheers from Brazil.

Current specs (and I probably won't do any further upgrades to this build. The computer should last at least another 2-3 years)
- AMD 3700x with Wraith Prism Box Cooler (stock)
- ASRock Steel Legend B450m

- 32GB DDR4 XPG D41 2666mhz (running at 3200mhz)

- Gigabyte Windforce 2060 Super OC
- Corsair Carbide 275R with glass panel (currently running with 2x120mm Corsair fans that came with it)
- Cooler Master PSU 550W Bronze

- 1 NVMe SSD and 1 HDD installed and 1 external SSD usually connected.

 

[will0hlep]

15 minutes ago, almog said:

Also my PC sits under my desk and where I live it usually goes around 35ºC (95ºF) in the Summer. Sometimes temperatures go near 40ºC (105ºF) but it's kind of impossible to work in those situations. Winter temperatures remain between 15-25ºC (60-75ºF) during the day and the computer helps heat the room during the night when it falls around 5ºC (40ºF) on a cold day. Of course temperatures inside my house are not that extreme but I don't have AC in the room. Thus not turning under the desk like hell temperatures are a must.

To start, if you put a better CPU cooler in your PC, your room will get hotter, not colder. This is because the cooler will move heat from your CPU to the air in your room faster, resulting in a higher equilbrium tempriture being reached in the room.

 

I've just realised it is possable you just meant "The PC is facing non ideal conditions" and that I've misunderstood you .

 

15 minutes ago, almog said:

Considering that noise is as important or even a bit more than temperatures at the CPU.

- AMD 3700x with Wraith Prism Box Cooler (stock)

A decent tower cooler would be my choice for minimal noise at a good price. I recommend a Peerless Assassin. 3700X is not a hot chip and AIOs are expensive (and overkill) and have pumps (which can also be a annoying source of noise on low quality units).

 

15 minutes ago, almog said:

Would you worry about VRM temperatures by going with the AIO and reducing airflow inside the case?

- AMD 3700x with Wraith Prism Box Cooler (stock)
- ASRock Steel Legend B450m

No

[tkitch]

so:
A high end dual 120 or 140mm air cooler will compete with a competent mid-range 240 AIO.  The better 240's will cool better though.

 

The Air Coolers will be more reliable long term.  The only wear-able component are the fans, and they're easy to replace.

 

The AIOs can potentially be quieter?  But a lot of that will depend on the exact fans / AIO.

 

If you're shipping / transporting a system, AIOs are much less stress on the mobo than a big air cooler.

 

which is better?  That's up to you.

[alyen]

5 hours ago, almog said:

Also my PC sits under my desk and where I live it usually goes around 35ºC (95ºF) in the Summer. Sometimes temperatures go near 40ºC (105ºF) but it's kind of impossible to work in those situations. Winter temperatures remain between 15-25ºC (60-75ºF) during the day and the computer helps heat the room during the night when it falls around 5ºC (40ºF) on a cold day. Of course temperatures inside my house are not that extreme but I don't have AC in the room. Thus not turning under the desk like hell temperatures are a must.

Go with a dual tower air cooler if you can. PA120 as people have recommended or something similar that is comparible. 240 AIO wouldn't be good for that case. It may not fit in the top of the case as intake and may operate poorly under your desk during the summer.

 

Having 3 fronts intake fans for your case might actually help you make it quieter if you don't need to run the fans so fast. Not sure which front of the case you have, but it looks like all options still pull the air in from the sides and bottom. The front has a dust filter so maybe if things get too hot during the hotter season you could remove the front cover.

[almog]

13 hours ago, will0hlep said:

To start, if you put a better CPU cooler in your PC, your room will get hotter, not colder. This is because the cooler will move heat from your CPU to the air in your room faster, resulting in a higher equilbrium tempriture being reached in the room.

 

I've just realised it is possable you just meant "The PC is facing non ideal conditions" and that I've misunderstood you .

 

A decent tower cooler would be my choice for minimal noise at a good price. I recommend a Peerless Assassin. 3700X is not a hot chip and AIOs are expensive (and overkill) and have pumps (which can also be a annoying source of noise on low quality units).

 

No

Thank you for your advice, I was thinking the wrong way about temperatures.

Thought chip would "make" less heat with a better cooler and not that the better cooler would dissipate the same heat better. I do have to consider that I might "burn my legs" with that change.

The coolers available at good price are those I mentioned (I have already bought them)... the one you suggested is even more expensive than the AIO I got.

Air Cooler + 2 cooler master fans = $50
AIO = $65

Prices in Brazil are not comparable to the US or Canada... those were the options I got within my budget (first option was an CM Liquid Master ML240L V2 by around $85 but it is way out of what I can afford right now. The tower you suggested is around $100-120 here).

I'll take your advice into consideration.

[almog]

13 hours ago, tkitch said:

so:
A high end dual 120 or 140mm air cooler will compete with a competent mid-range 240 AIO.  The better 240's will cool better though.

 

The Air Coolers will be more reliable long term.  The only wear-able component are the fans, and they're easy to replace.

 

The AIOs can potentially be quieter?  But a lot of that will depend on the exact fans / AIO.

 

If you're shipping / transporting a system, AIOs are much less stress on the mobo than a big air cooler.

 

which is better?  That's up to you.

I can't make that up... that's the real issue here. Thank you.

[Ralf]

A would get a Cpu fan.

[RevGAM]

13 hours ago, almog said:

Hey guys,

 

I'm in an "excrutiating" doubt here and some help would be very much appreciated. Realy don't know where to go from here.

I use my computer 95% of the time for work (architecture and interior design, 2D and 3D designs) and 5% of the time for gaming (it's been a while). The issue I'm dealing since the day I bought/built my PC is with noise when rendering 3D images (CPU render). It's really disturbing. I'm moving towards GPU rendering because of render times but CPU will still be used for final images sent to the clients.

Also my PC sits under my desk and where I live it usually goes around 35ºC (95ºF) in the Summer. Sometimes temperatures go near 40ºC (105ºF) but it's kind of impossible to work in those situations. Winter temperatures remain between 15-25ºC (60-75ºF) during the day and the computer helps heat the room during the night when it falls around 5ºC (40ºF) on a cold day. Of course temperatures inside my house are not that extreme but I don't have AC in the room. Thus not turning under the desk like hell temperatures are a must.

I don't overclock, and RGB is not a thing I care about...

Possibilities are:

1 - Air Cooling:

     - 2 existing fans: 120mm Corsair (1 in - 1 exhaust)

     - 2 new fans front mount (in): Cooler Master 120mm Sickleflow
     - Air Cooler Pichau Darkstar Extreme (https://www.pichau.com.br/cooler-para-processador-pichau-darkstar-p1-extreme-130mm-preto-pg-dks-x01blk). Brand is not famous and probably uses rebranded generic parts made in China.

2 - Water Cooling AIO:

     - 2 existing fans: 120mm Corsair (1 in - 1 exhaust)

     - Deep Cool Castle v2 RGB 240 (https://pt.deepcool.com/products/Cooling/cpuliquidcoolers/2021/13234.shtml) front mounted for positive pressure inside the case. Due to costs at the moment I won't buy extra fans in the near future if I opt for water cooling.

 

So... considering this, what would you choose?

Considering that noise is as important or even a bit more than temperatures at the CPU.

 

Would you worry about VRM temperatures by going with the AIO and reducing airflow inside the case?

 

I have untill next Monday to choose and take the computer somewhere for someone to clean it and replace the cooler I have today. I have read that AMD processors sometimes come out of the motherboard when removing the cooler and I really can't afford changing the processor or the motherboard, or both at this time.

Temperatures today are around 23ºC (73ºF) and you can see in the images what's happening now. I can easily hear the CPU fan.

Thank you all, and sorry for any language mistakes...
Cheers from Brazil.

Current specs (and I probably won't do any further upgrades to this build. The computer should last at least another 2-3 years)
- AMD 3700x with Wraith Prism Box Cooler (stock)
- ASRock Steel Legend B450m

- 32GB DDR4 XPG D41 2666mhz (running at 3200mhz)

- Gigabyte Windforce 2060 Super OC
- Corsair Carbide 275R with glass panel (currently running with 2x120mm Corsair fans that came with it)
- Cooler Master PSU 550W Bronze

- 1 NVMe SSD and 1 HDD installed and 1 external SSD usually connected.

 

What load was the PC under when you took those screenshots?

 

If you value quiet so much, an AIO is the best choice. Since your case can take a 360 in the front, get that. Just be careful about your choice because, as mentioned above, they are all different. Mount your extra fans on the rear and the top-back. 

 

Also, you can undervolt your CPU and GC.

 

If you go for the Darkstar, you'll eventually want to replace the fans as, although they are strong, the bearings are poor quality.

 

 

[almog]

8 hours ago, alyen said:

Go with a dual tower air cooler if you can. PA120 as people have recommended or something similar that is comparible. 240 AIO wouldn't be good for that case. It may not fit in the top of the case as intake and may operate poorly under your desk during the summer.

 

Having 3 fronts intake fans for your case might actually help you make it quieter if you don't need to run the fans so fast. Not sure which front of the case you have, but it looks like all options still pull the air in from the sides and bottom. The front has a dust filter so maybe if things get too hot during the hotter season you could remove the front cover.

It's the closed one, only sides are open... I do regret choosing this case at that time, went out for the looks and by not knowing what I was doing chose the closed one.

I have to check the AIO radiator size but it seems I can fit 1x 120mm fan (the one that came with the case) and the AIO radiator at the front... I wouldn't put the radiator as intake at the top, there's not much room between top of the case and my desk.

Still askling myself what to do but I might go with the tower.

Thank you.

[RevGAM]

3 minutes ago, almog said:

It's the closed one, only sides are open... I do regret choosing this case at that time, went out for the looks and by not knowing what I was doing chose the closed one.

I have to check the AIO radiator size but it seems I can fit 1x 120mm fan (the one that came with the case) and the AIO radiator at the front... I wouldn't put the radiator as intake at the top, there's not much room between top of the case and my desk.

Still askling myself what to do but I might go with the tower.

Thank you.

Can you afford to get a 360 if you return that AIO and the Darkstar? If yes, which AIOs could you afford?

[almog]

3 minutes ago, RevGAM said:

What load was the PC under when you took those screenshots?

 

If you value quiet so much, an AIO is the best choice. Since your case can take a 360 in the front, get that. Just be careful about your choice because, as mentioned above, they are all different. Mount your extra fans on the rear and the top-back. 

 

Also, you can undervolt your CPU and GC.

 

If you go for the Darkstar, you'll eventually want to replace the fans as, although they are strong, the bearings are poor quality.

 

 

I was only browsing, so I would say idle (but you can see fans were spinning quite fast)... and at night with lower ambient temperatures.

I tend to avoid rendering images during the day because of noise and heat... usually I batch them at night to avoid hearing the fans spin up.

How can I know bearings quality?

Thank you.

[RevGAM]

1 minute ago, almog said:

I was only browsing, so I would say idle (but you can see fans were spinning quite fast)... and at night with lower ambient temperatures.

I tend to avoid rendering images during the day because of noise and heat... usually I batch them at night to avoid hearing the fans spin up.

How can I know bearings quality?

Thank you.

We need to see temps under your normal workload, please. 

 

Look at the MTTF/MTBF of the fans. They are only 40,000 hours, which is the MTTF for sleeve bearings, which aren't good.  The best bearings are Isaiah dual ball bearing, magnetic levitation and fluid dynamic. 

[almog]

1 minute ago, RevGAM said:

Can you afford to get a 360 if you return that AIO and the Darkstar? If yes, which AIOs could you afford?

Unfortunatelly not. Things in Brazil are quite expensive for the average consumer (and how I miss the time I lived in Canada)...

My first aircooler of choice was the Cooler Master Hyper 212 Black, but it was around the same price as the AIO ($65).

I would like to things under that $70 mark... and those were the options I considered best.

360mm AIOs from "reputable" brands here are about $120-150 to start... Brands like NZXT, Corsair, Cooler Master and such are above that.
I can find cheap versions like Aigo for around $100 but I wouldn't go that far, either.

Thanks

[RevGAM]

2 minutes ago, almog said:

Unfortunatelly not. Things in Brazil are quite expensive for the average consumer (and how I miss the time I lived in Canada)...

My first aircooler of choice was the Cooler Master Hyper 212 Black, but it was around the same price as the AIO ($65).

I would like to things under that $70 mark... and those were the options I considered best.

360mm AIOs from "reputable" brands here are about $120-150 to start... Brands like NZXT, Corsair, Cooler Master and such are above that.
I can find cheap versions like Aigo for around $100 but I wouldn't go that far, either.

Thanks

What about Thermalright?

[almog]

14 minutes ago, RevGAM said:

What about Thermalright?

I'll put the computer to render as soon as I can get away from it, I'll post temps under load later.

Hard to find Thermalright components, hard to get warranty if needed.

Could only find in one store (marketplace) for about $100. Way over my budget.

In Brazilian Reais the difference in "number" is about 150.
- Tower + 2x 120mm fans: BRL 250
- AIO mentioned: BRL 340
- Thermalright: BRL 490

- 360mm AIO: 700+

[RevGAM]

27 minutes ago, almog said:

I'll put the computer to render as soon as I can get away from it, I'll post temps under load later.

Hard to find Thermalright components, hard to get warranty if needed.

Could only find in one store (marketplace) for about $100. Way over my budget.

In Brazilian Reais the difference in "number" is about 150.
- Tower + 2x 120mm fans: BRL 250
- AIO mentioned: BRL 340
- Thermalright: BRL 490

- 360mm AIO: 700+

Well, that's better than Indonesian Rupiahs!

 

I know the Aigo name but don't know its reputation. 

[will0hlep]

1 hour ago, almog said:

The coolers available at good price are those I mentioned (I have already bought them)... the one you suggested is even more expensive than the AIO I got.

Air Cooler + 2 cooler master fans = $50
AIO = $65

Prices in Brazil are not comparable to the US or Canada... those were the options I got within my budget (first option was an CM Liquid Master ML240L V2 by around $85 but it is way out of what I can afford right now. The tower you suggested is around $100-120 here).

I wouldn't recommend any AIO that can be purchased at that price. It will likely have a very low quality pump, rad and fan(s).

[almog]

7 minutes ago, will0hlep said:

I wouldn't recommend any AIO that can be purchased at that price. It will likely have a very low quality pump, rad and fan(s).

It's black friday's price... usually it goes around $120 (600 BRL).

Nonetheless I really don't have any knowledge on "how" to check quality for components.

[almog]

1 hour ago, RevGAM said:

We need to see temps under your normal workload, please. 

 

Look at the MTTF/MTBF of the fans. They are only 40,000 hours, which is the MTTF for sleeve bearings, which aren't good.  The best bearings are Isaiah dual ball bearing, magnetic levitation and fluid dynamic. 

About 6-7 minutes under load and I got this... ambient around 30ºC.

BUT when doing final renderings the computer will stay like this for about 12h straight.

[RevGAM]

43 minutes ago, will0hlep said:

I wouldn't recommend any AIO that can be purchased at that price. It will likely have a very low quality pump, rad and fan(s).

So you wouldn't recommend TR AIOs? 

[RevGAM]

5 minutes ago, almog said:

About 6-7 minutes under load and I got this... ambient around 30ºC.

BUT when doing final renderings the computer will stay like this for about 12h straight.

Those aren't worrying temperatures. 

[almog]

4 hours ago, RevGAM said:

Those aren't worrying temperatures. 

my legs under the table disagree...

but as said before, changing my cpu cooler might get the situation worse.

now I'm stuck in another dilemma...

maybe I'll keep the wraith prism and just kick in two more fans to the case, might work and it's waaaay cheaper.

[RevGAM]

7 minutes ago, almog said:

my legs under the table disagree...

but as said before, changing my cpu cooler might get the situation worse.

now I'm stuck in another dilemma...

maybe I'll keep the wraith prism and just kick in two more fans to the case, might work and it's waaaay cheaper.

I understand but you're the one who put your computer there. Change your layout to get some relief.

 

It's not going to make that much of a difference but, hey, if it doesn't then you have 2 fans ready to be used. No risk. 

[almog]

23 minutes ago, RevGAM said:

I understand but you're the one who put your computer there. Change your layout to get some relief.

 

It's not going to make that much of a difference but, hey, if it doesn't then you have 2 fans ready to be used. No risk. 

Unfortunatelly changing the layout is not viable with current furniture and room size. Already thought about it many times and the conclusion is always "We (my wife and I) need a bigger place". We work in the same room, same table (2.5m long) and I wouldn't dare take some of "her space" so I can put my PC on top of the desk.

Health and safety issues 

But anyways... guess I'll have to decide and maybe stop using the CPU rendering at all, so noise and heat would be less of an issue (but I'll get the noise and heat from the GPU instead).

And I'll have to blame brazilian government rn, buying the recommended cooler would set me back around $65-70 in product and shipping... and another $60 in taxes and duties. Not cool at all. If it wasn't for that I'd go with the TR PA 120.

[KaitouX]

6 hours ago, almog said:

I'll put the computer to render as soon as I can get away from it, I'll post temps under load later.

Hard to find Thermalright components, hard to get warranty if needed.

Could only find in one store (marketplace) for about $100. Way over my budget.

In Brazilian Reais the difference in "number" is about 150.
- Tower + 2x 120mm fans: BRL 250
- AIO mentioned: BRL 340
- Thermalright: BRL 490

- 360mm AIO: 700+

If you can keep your current for a bit, a Thermalright PA120 on Aliexpress is a good option, it costs about R$270 currently, so probably not worth it, but it was going for R$180 with the black friday sales and coupons. Those prices already includes the taxes.

Other alternative is the Deepcool AG620, which is going for R$309(Pix)+shipping on GKInfoStore, or wait for it to go on sale somewhere else, once in a while it appears under R$350 on other shops.

If you want something cheaper, I would probably look into the AG400 over the Pichau cooler, you can find in multiple shops for under R$150(Pix).