They Sent me a Broken PC AGAIN - $1500 PC Secret Shopper 3 Part 2

[Rarity]

so thats what happened (based on reading the stuff posted here) ,got anotification on the phone , and by the time i clicked on the link , was wondering whay it went private ..

[bhop_monster_jam]

I appreciate the swiftness in LTT's actions when an apparent error has occurred, but this one seems unjust.

[SkillTim]

I find it really jarring that Linus and Steve poo poo the 4060Ti when it has the same performance as the 3070 at 73% of the power draw. That makes a big different to me in my small room.

[needlessbackstory]

11 hours ago, Quackers101 said:

not sure how good that ugreen message was.

Also it can be a reason as to why USB C is on the back, as not that many cases support them good enough or only 1.
So having more in the back can be an easier spot to put them, wish my motherboard did that... as I can't use mine currently without modding to the case etc. which I dont have.

It's not the nicest looking solution cable management-wise, but they make internal header to expansion slot adapters so you'll at least be able to use that port without modding/buying a new case. this is one example: https://www.amazon.com/GRAUGEAR-Extension-Profile-Bracket-G-AD-ETC-10G/dp/B09YRMQT1F 

[manikyath]

3 hours ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

Looks like we're going to have more inaccuracies in reporting considering this issue looks like it's on its way to being brushed under the rug.

or.. both parties recognized that this was gonna become a media storm, and decided to take a shared L and sort things out privately before updating their statements (LTT video and starforge tweets)

 

you cant have both LMG striving to correct mistakes, and LMG not taking down videos when there might be a mistake in the scripting. 

 

past that, back on topic:

 

IMO starforge's reply on the packaging is not a suitable reply. their packaging is visibly subpar compared to other vendors, wether or not it suffices 'in all but 4 cases so far" is irrelevant if other vendors have factually better packaging.

 

as for the shipping costs... we'll see what that turns into. wether it's taxes or shipping cost.. the price difference is still relevant to canadians if that extra cost isnt there for other vendors. now.. it ofcourse depends on if LMG counted the beans correctly in every camp ofcourse.

 

i'm gonna park further opinions until the video re-releases, and make up my mind then. which is what i recommend you lot do as well.

 

EDIT: PS, i was reminded of this because the posts above me talked about it.. not a fan of how the ugreen integrations were done. i dont hate it, but let's just say "i hope the segway to our sponsor" will continue existing.

[Needfuldoer]

46 minutes ago, manikyath said:

as for the shipping costs... we'll see what that turns into. wether it's taxes or shipping cost..

I haven't watched the episode yet (I wanted to save it for Friday because I had the new Steam Deck video to watch first  ) but I've got some experience on the retailer's side of mail ordering.

 

Shipping, import duties, and taxes should be separate line items on the checkout. At the very least, all three should be called out on the shipping line.

 

According to this screenshot I stole off the LTT subreddit (thanks /u/MaybeSomeDayX1), the line item just says "Shipping":

 

 

I don't know how much about the checkout process Starforge can change, but this looks like charging $300 USD for shipping on the face of it. Apparently you have to click the question mark for it to tell you this includes duties and tax.

 

I can understand how this oversight made it through to a published video, but Starforge shouldn't get upset at LMG for taking their website at face value as a layperson would. Secret Shopper is all about getting a layperson's perspective on the customer experience from companies such as theirs.

[aminit]

I don't know if it is a good idea but I would suggest for the sake of fairness contacting the other companies (aside from Starforge) if they want to comment about their portion of the video.
 

15 minutes ago, Needfuldoer said:

I can understand how this oversight made it through to a published video, but Starforge shouldn't get upset at LMG for taking their website at face value as a layperson would. Secret Shopper is all about getting a layperson's perspective on the customer experience from companies such as theirs.

I agree, I also think that Starforge pc parts was fine as it represent a typical customer experience.

[SeanH]

1 hour ago, Needfuldoer said:

I haven't watched the episode yet (I wanted to save it for Friday because I had the new Steam Deck video to watch first  ) but I've got some experience on the retailer's side of mail ordering.

 

Shipping, import duties, and taxes should be separate line items on the checkout. At the very least, all three should be called out on the shipping line.

 

According to this screenshot I stole off the LTT subreddit (thanks /u/MaybeSomeDayX1), the line item just says "Shipping":

 

 

I don't know how much about the checkout process Starforge can change, but this looks like charging $300 USD for shipping on the face of it. Apparently you have to click the question mark for it to tell you this includes duties and tax.

 

I can understand how this oversight made it through to a published video, but Starforge shouldn't get upset at LMG for taking their website at face value as a layperson would. Secret Shopper is all about getting a layperson's perspective on the customer experience from companies such as theirs.

Starforge uses Shopify (so does LTT for that matter). It’s possible to separate shipping from duties in the checkout, but only on high-tier plans, and it will still be combined into a single line item on the invoice.

[m8377]

As a layperson in Canada most items bought internationally are Delivery Duty Unpaid (DDU), meaning you don’t expect to see duty on the invoice. I would assume that the entire $300 is to cover freight and packaging costs and a second duty charge was collected when the PC was delivered. 
 

if it was unclear or implied that this shipped DDU and not DDP and more taxes were charged on delivery like multiple sales reps warned about - I’d expect a proper edit on how it was worded. This would be a more significant issue if other invoices were presented with a fraction of the shipping cost and duty charges were not properly accounted for. 

[Needfuldoer]

16 minutes ago, SeanH said:

Starforge uses Shopify (so does LTT for that matter). It’s possible to separate shipping from duties in the checkout, but only on high-tier plans, and it will still be combined into a single line item on the invoice.

And that would be fine, as long as the costs are clearly communicated to the customer at some point before the transaction is completed.

 

I agree with Starforge that paying the taxes and import duties / VAT at checkout is the better approach, since the customer won't be hit with a surprise charge later. Problem for them is that at a glance, an uninitiated customer could reasonably assume they'd have to pay taxes/duties/VAT on top of the $300 Starforge is charging them for "just shipping".

[SeanH]

2 minutes ago, Needfuldoer said:

And that would be fine, as long as the costs are clearly communicated to the customer at some point before the transaction is completed.

 

I agree with Starforge that paying the taxes and import duties / VAT at checkout is the better approach, since the customer won't be hit with a surprise charge later. Problem for them is that at a glance, an uninitiated customer could reasonably assume they'd have to pay taxes/duties/VAT on top of the $300 Starforge is charging them for "shipping".

It’s not ideal.

 

The best solution is to have a Canadian storefront to serve Canadian customers.

[m8377]

40 minutes ago, Needfuldoer said:

And that would be fine, as long as the costs are clearly communicated to the customer at some point before the transaction is completed.

 

I agree with Starforge that paying the taxes and import duties / VAT at checkout is the better approach, since the customer won't be hit with a surprise charge later. Problem for them is that at a glance, an uninitiated customer could reasonably assume they'd have to pay taxes/duties/VAT on top of the $300 Starforge is charging them for "just shipping".

On the checkout process to a Canadian address the drop down clearly had a breakdown of shipping vs duty and taxes under the “Shipping Option”. It’s a little clunky, but I think if your dropping 1k on a purchase you’ll be reading through the checkout page a little more carefully than an impulse Amazon purchase. 
 

I assume that if this is the reason for the video being pulled it will have a good mini crash course on international shipping, predatory brokerage fees and all this fun stuff. 

[Holmes108]

I haven't seen the video yet, and am basing this just off of piecing things together from posts here and on reddit. 

 

They way I understood the shipping cost, it sounded like everything was broken down properly on the checkout page. It just wasn't broken down again on the final receipt. If so, this is more on LTT than starforge. It would be a spot to suggest an improvement to the customer experience for SF, for sure. Becasue if a customer refers back to the receipt in the future, this could cause confusion. But in the meantime, if LTT couldn't track that short term for this review, and compare if fairly to the other companies in a more apples to apples way, then that's their error.

 

Again, caveat being if what I understand is even correct.

 

Shipping damage... well I agree in general that it's on the shipper. But if it was packaged reasonably, and is on par with most PC companies, then again, I don't think that should be a real strike on the company vs competitors. Shit happens. If there is issues with the packing (I've heard there possibly was), then it's reasonable to critique specifics there of course.

 

[Needfuldoer]

I just went through the checkout on Starforge's website, up to the point of submitting payment information.

 

First it asks you for contact information. I used LMG's street address (publicly listed on linusmediagroup.com) and of course a punny name. It says shipping will be calculated at checkout:

 

Spoiler

 

The next page asks you to pick a shipping method. "Shipping" is shown separately from "Duties and Tax (VAT):

Spoiler

 

On the next page, the "Duties and Tax (VAT)" amount is briefly combined with Shipping, but a moment after the page loads, they're split again:

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

I don't like that the "Shipping method" wording now says "Worldwide Expedited Duties & Tax Included - $99.99" because that contradicts the column right next to it. (Makes it sound like duties and tax are included in that $99.99.) But overall? I'm fine with this.

 

This is just how the page is set up as of this post. I have not tried going through PayPal or another processor, because I have no intention of buying a gaming PC and shipping it to LMG HQ. 

 

If this is how the page worked when LMG placed the order, shame on them. If this was only changed once they were called out, shame on Starforge.

[Alvin853]

6 minutes ago, Holmes108 said:

I haven't seen the video yet, and am basing this just off of piecing things together from posts here and on reddit. 

 

They way I understood the shipping cost, it sounded like everything was broken down properly on the checkout page. It just wasn't broken down again on the final receipt. If so, this is more on LTT than starforge. It would be a spot to suggest an improvement to the customer experience for SF, for sure. Becasue if a customer refers back to the receipt in the future, this could cause confusion. But in the meantime, if LTT couldn't track that short term for this review, and compare if fairly to the other companies in a more apples to apples way, then that's their error.

 

Again, caveat being if what I understand is even correct.

 

Shipping damage... well I agree in general that it's on the shipper. But if it was packaged reasonably, and is on par with most PC companies, then again, I don't think that should be a real strike on the company vs competitors. Shit happens. If there is issues with the packing (I've heard there possibly was), then it's reasonable to critique specifics there of course.

 

As Canadians LTT should know that they're required to pay taxes. And they also paid taxes on all the other systems, it's just that the other sellers didn't list the taxes on the invoice. So you're probably correct, the checkout correctly splits shipping and taxes, but the final receipt maybe doesn't, and whoever wrote the script for the video only looked at the receipts.

 

As far as shipping damage goes, yes StarForge should take the blame for that one, but the video was titled
 

Quote

They Sent me a Broken PC AGAIN

and not
 

Quote

My new PC got DESTROYED during shipping

 

I can see how StarForge would be upset about that clickbait title.

[nether1234]

32 minutes ago, Holmes108 said:

I haven't seen the video yet, and am basing this just off of piecing things together from posts here and on reddit. 

 

They way I understood the shipping cost, it sounded like everything was broken down properly on the checkout page. It just wasn't broken down again on the final receipt. If so, this is more on LTT than starforge. It would be a spot to suggest an improvement to the customer experience for SF, for sure. Becasue if a customer refers back to the receipt in the future, this could cause confusion. But in the meantime, if LTT couldn't track that short term for this review, and compare if fairly to the other companies in a more apples to apples way, then that's their error.

 

Again, caveat being if what I understand is even correct.

 

Shipping damage... well I agree in general that it's on the shipper. But if it was packaged reasonably, and is on par with most PC companies, then again, I don't think that should be a real strike on the company vs competitors. Shit happens. If there is issues with the packing (I've heard there possibly was), then it's reasonable to critique specifics there of course.

 

Except the SF pc was not packaged as well as the other. That's why it broke.

[Holmes108]

34 minutes ago, nether1234 said:

Except the SF pc was not packaged as well as the other. That's why it broke.

 

Yeah I said I didn't know either way, but had heard that might be the case.

 

From their initial response, it did sound like their main excuse was "well, we don't get many complaints". But certainly, with an expensive product like this, I'd expect a company to go a little above and beyond for packaging.

[djksm]

its gone

[Pgunrah]

Here we go again.

[RabbidEwok]

2 hours ago, Alvin853 said:

As Canadians LTT should know that they're required to pay taxes. And they also paid taxes on all the other systems, it's just that the other sellers didn't list the taxes on the invoice. So you're probably correct, the checkout correctly splits shipping and taxes, but the final receipt maybe doesn't, and whoever wrote the script for the video only looked at the receipts.

 

As far as shipping damage goes, yes StarForge should take the blame for that one, but the video was titled
 

and not
 

 

I can see how StarForge would be upset about that clickbait title.

Maybe they should stop with the clickbait titles. It’s getting to stupid levels now 

[Quackers101]

3 hours ago, Alvin853 said:

As far as shipping damage goes, yes StarForge should take the blame for that one, but the video was titled
(example 1)

and not
(example 2)

I can see how StarForge would be upset about that clickbait title.

Sort of thought it was one of the other systems he talked about since another was damaged in shipping, but I guess last time it was starforge.

[AnHero]

On 10/19/2023 at 12:15 PM, Shahrad said:

Thanks again to UGREEN for sponsoring this video. Check out the Nexode 300W and Nexode RG chargers below!

 

Ugreen Nexode 300W GaN Charger:

US ($70 OFF): https://bit.ly/3LZoiYY

CA (C$95 OFF): https://bit.ly/3tu2yxI

 

Ugreen Nexode RG 30& 65W Chargers:

RG 65W (US) : https://bit.ly/3tJikVu (25% Total OFF : Coupon +Code: 05UgreenLTT )

RG 30W (Purple US) : https://bit.ly/499C4Cj ( 25% Total OFF: Coupon +Code: 05UgreenLTT）

RG 65W (CA): https://bit.ly/46TDqie (25% Total OFF: Coupon +Code: 05UgreenLTT)

 

The computers are here, it’s time to unbox them and see what we got! Who was fastest? Who had the best shipping materials? Did we even get what we asked for?

Is this video privated for anyone else? Sorry if this was answered elsewhere, I'm new here.

 

EDIT: please disregard, I am dumb and just now learned how forums work.

Edited October 20, 2023 by AnHero

[UmaruLover]

I think they're basically entirely in the right here. The PC was "broken" if it outright would not turn on when you got it. If you can fix it by calling support, nothing changes, it still needed fixing.

 

And... Christ, what kind of anklebreaking invoice just says "shipping" for everything? Saying "shipping cost us 300$" after getting a piece of paper with your product that tells you that shipping cost you 300$ isn't exactly uncalled for. I can't blame the writing team for thinking the invoice was a reliable source of information.

 

 

[Egon3]

6 hours ago, Needfuldoer said:

I just went through the checkout on Starforge's website, up to the point of submitting payment information.

 

First it asks you for contact information. I used LMG's street address (publicly listed on linusmediagroup.com) and of course a punny name. It says shipping will be calculated at checkout:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

The next page asks you to pick a shipping method. "Shipping" is shown separately from "Duties and Tax (VAT):

  Reveal hidden contents

 

On the next page, the "Duties and Tax (VAT)" amount is briefly combined with Shipping, but a moment after the page loads, they're split again:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I don't like that the "Shipping method" wording now says "Worldwide Expedited Duties & Tax Included - $99.99" because that contradicts the column right next to it. (Makes it sound like duties and tax are included in that $99.99.) But overall? I'm fine with this.

 

This is just how the page is set up as of this post. I have not tried going through PayPal or another processor, because I have no intention of buying a gaming PC and shipping it to LMG HQ. 

 

If this is how the page worked when LMG placed the order, shame on them. If this was only changed once they were called out, shame on Starforge.

Thanks for showing this play-by-play, and I love the name used for the shipping info

[Bloodshed Romance]

Secret Shopper is supposed to be from the perspective of a generic shopper, as they had a non techie person doing the "shopping" and bought the computers.

 

LTT could have shown the full invoices for each PC which would have negated probably all of this "drama" because then it would show exactly what it is listed as on the invoice and it would be in black and white, no mixing up what was originally charged for what including the "shipping". If SF went back and changed their site to forcibly separate the shipping and taxes then that would have been done after the fact and their "press release" could have reflected that as a move to be more "transparent".

 

 

Parts broken, no matter how small, is still broken. If someone that had never built a computer opened it and had loose rattling plastic in it then they would call their friends and say (most likely), yeah I got it and something broke in it. Does that mean the computer itself was broken, no not necessarily. But, parts in it were broken regardless.

 

The problem with taking the video down and making changes to it in this aspect is that it completely ruins the "secret shopper" aspect if the companies can go back and "UHM ACTUALLYYYY" and have the changes they want put into the video. Yes, LTT can ruin small companies with a video. But, the small companies have to strive to be better because they will always be under more scrutiny. 

 

I hope the replaced video details all of these findings and doesn't hide them because that will hurt everyone's credibility more than what has already happened.